Zimmerman verdict

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Missy, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    One can respect the position of juror and also be upset with the verdict (recognizing they make the decision using the information and directions provided). Because I do and am.
     
  2. Em_Catz

    Em_Catz Devotee

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    :thumb: :yeahthat:
     
  3. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    I agree!
     
  4. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    I agree wholeheartedly, they took a rather lengthy time to come to their verdict. It has also been said by people who were present in the court room that the jurors were very attentive and took a lot of notes.
     
  5. Major

    Major Connoisseur

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    I'm not upset with the verdict at all. It was up to the state to prove guilt. They didn't. I do believe GZ displayed little common sense in stepping out of his vehicle and following Martin. What he did was really stupid. Being stupid doesn't make you guilty.

    FWIW, I don't have good feelings about GZ .......
     
  6. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I suppose saying I'm upset with the verdict isn't quite accurate. I'm guess I'm upset with the reality of the situation as I see it, which is that Zimmerman is not simply a man who acted in a moment of fear. I think the dude is...I don't know...not crazy, but...well, crazy.

    His nearly fifty phone calls to the police speaks volumes. That's not normal.
     
  7. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Just wondering, if he was being tried for manslaughter, and was found guilty of that, would you guys agree with that finding, then? Just curious.
     
  8. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    Wasn't the jury ordered to consider manslaughter during deliberation? I've only followed the trial in small increments, so it is entirely likely that I heard wrong or misunderstood.
     
  9. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    From what I can piece together, the jury considered both.
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Yes. They were given instruction to consider both.
     
  11. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    You stated incorrect facts. George Zimmerman was not IN his car when the dispatcher said to not follow. Read the first quote. You parroted incorrect information as gospel. So, you made the accusation that George Zimmerman disregarded the dispatcher's request and got out of his car instead. All I said is that you are basing your point "this wouldn't have happened if George followed orders and DIDN'T GET OUT OF HIS CAR" that was actually a creation of the "telephone game".

    You can claim you didn't make that accusation, but it is here in your words. You are forming your opinion based on incorrect information. I know you admitted not following closely, but I wanted you to be aware that the "facts" you were following were incorrect.
     
  12. Sweet_P

    Sweet_P Rookie

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    I'm not surprised, but it still leaves me sad and deeply disheartened.
     
  13. AdamnJakesMommy

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    Someone plz correct me if I am wrong here because I'm not familiar with Florida legal-ese... but I *think* in order for the jury to convict Zimmerman of manslaughter, which was a lesser, included charge for them to consider, the state would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

    So I agree with the jury's verdict of "not guilty." I would have thought a conviction of manslaughter unsubstantiated, and would have thereby been disappointed in the verdict. But of course, a jury's call is THE call, so I would've gotten over it quickly.
     
  14. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I was simply repeating what I had read/heard. I was not accusing of him of anything. I apologize for repeating false information, but I prefaced that with the fact that I had not followed closely so anyone could take what I said with a grain of salt. The fact remains that he should not have followed Martin at all, whether or not he was inside or outside his car.
     
  15. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    11:00 news just said that there was some violence in Sanford and the police responded by firing "bean bags". Bean bags? Could that be right?
     
  16. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    The DOJ is investigating and may bring federal hate crime charges against Zimmerman because of some of the statements he made on that 911 call!!
     
  17. itsGrape

    itsGrape Rookie

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    People need to let this man go. Let the civil lawsuits happen, but otherwise let it go.

    What about Casey Anthony and all of the other people who get away with murder? Stop focusing on this one. There's so much more going on out there. I just think it's idiotic to keep pursuing this. I think some people just don't want to back down / give up / be the 'loser.' Life goes on.
     
  18. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I have been watching the coverage
    In the transcript most news sources cut it off right after
    the 911 dispatcher says: "Are you following him?
    Zimmerman:"Yea"
    Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that."

    Here is where most news sources stop but the rest is;

    Zimmerman: "Ok"

    I wonder if people would think differ if they saw "The rest of the story"

    Dispatcher: "Alright sir what is your name?"
    Zimmerman: "George ... He ran'
    Dispatcher: "Alright George what's your last name
    Zimmerman: "Zimmerman"
    Dispatcher: "And George what's the phone number you're calling from?"
    Zimmerman: [redacted ]
    Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
    Zimmerman?: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
    Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]
    Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
    Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.
    Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
    Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.
    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.
    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?
    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.
    Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
    Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted ]
    Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
    Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.


    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf
     
  19. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Zimmerman who did not know what Teyvon was doing
    Zimmerman: "Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

    The neighborhood had had break-ins, so he was observing an unknown person in the neighborhood. The word "pursuit" is not appropriate Zimmerman was watching the unknown person who was displaying suspicious behavior it looked like Teyvon was checking out houses. Remember Zimmerman lost sight of Teyvon and Teyvon came back toward Zimmerman.
    I also wonder if his father had warned that there had been break-ins in the neighborhood and he should have watched out for suspicious persons. Zimmerman could have been a burglar also. It was alleged that Teyvon doubled back to confront Zimmerman.
    Now some say he was only 17 BUT he was a football player. 5'11" 158 pounds (Athletic) in another 12 months he would be a legal adult.
    Zimmerman 5' 7" 185 pounds (not Athletic) is 29 he is 100 pounds heavier now, stress eating I bet.

    THAT SAID: It is such a tragedy that Tayvon was killed the big if is on both of them (should-a could-a would-a) done something else. Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. Tayvon should have gone straight home and not confront Zimmerman.

    Rest in peace Tayvon
     
  20. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Everyone and everything was suspicious of problematic to Zimmerman. Someone said it already, but he's likely to be one paranoid mess of a man for the rest of his life.
     
  21. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    SO you are saying he shot him because he was black? Not because Teyvon was beating his head on the ground?

    He was ask and responded with a true description,
    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
    Zimmerman: He looks black
    Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
    Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible]*, he was just staring...
    Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
    Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
    Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
    Dispatcher: Late teens ok....

    ...Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse....

    ...Zimmerman: The back entrance...f#$%ing [unintelligible]*

    The DOJ has to prove that Zimmerman had deprived Teyvon of his civil rights because of his race. I do not think the DOJ can do it.

    * if this was racial term no one has translated it so.
     
  22. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Well, if he wasn't paranoid before he is now, both Zimmerman and his family have had death threats.
    There have been
    "Wanted Dead or Alive
    $10,000 reward"

    posters made of him.

     
  23. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    :agreed:
     
  24. Missy

    Missy Aficionado

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    I am not sure on what grounds the NAACP would have standing to file a suit.

    Was anyone else offended about how the media mentioned way more than one time that the prosecution was using "good-looking" men because the jury was all women?
     
  25. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    This was a media driven event from the start. :(
     
  26. Miss84

    Miss84 Comrade

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    I wasn't happy with the verdict, at all. BUT I wasn't surprised. The justice system in our country is seriously flawed, and they blatantly showed who they are going to protect and who they aren't.
     
  27. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Did you think the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt? The verdict is NOT saying that Zimmerman isn't responsible...just that the prosecution didn't prove murder 2 or manslaughter.
     
  28. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I think it will be hard for a civil lawsuit because the jury found him not guilty because of self defense! It was known that he shot him, not like O.J. who was accused of killing.

    BTW speaking O.J. Kim Kardashian tweeted "no justice for Trayvon Martin" just for the irony Robert Kardashian her father gained national recognition as O.J. Simpson's friend and defense attorney during the O.J.'s 1995 murder trial, where there was "no justice for Nicole Simpson"
     
  29. OhThePlaces

    OhThePlaces Cohort

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    The Simpsons and Kardashians were good family friends when O.J. and Nicole were married. Kim's mom Kris actually sat on the prosecution's side in support of Nicole. Just putting it out there. :p
     
  30. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I am an older guy and grew up on the deep south. I remember when this was SOP. Some black gets killed by someone and ho hum so what? No recourse or demonstration or anything. All I know for sure is a young guy walks to the store for candy and tea is followed by a guy that wants to be a cop. He is told to wait for the police and the kid is dead before they arrive. GZ says he was attacked but from every indication it was all initiated by him on his suspicions. Makes me ill.
     
  31. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I am sorry but I'd like to know how it is flawed? The law is the LAW. again it was said by English legal scholar, William Blackstone: "It is better that ten guilty men go free than that one innocent man be convicted."
    Is it flawed because it is not perfect?

    Are you as offended that Since Trayvon Martin Was Shot, About 480 Blacks Have Been Murdered in Chicago and most by blacks.
     
  32. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    If Trayvon didn't go to the store he wouldn't be dead either. If Trayvon wasn't poking around looking at each house, he wouldn't have drawn attention.

    Yes, he had every right under Florida law to follow someone. He even called 911 to report suspicious behavior which a few media outlets cut out the pertinent information and made it into a RACE case. Trayvon was looking at different houses. He was poking around unlike a person walking home from a store would be doing. So, we could say that if Trayvon was just walking down the sidewalk from the store to home like most people would do when they are walking from the store to home in the rain, he wouldn't have garnered any suspicion and Zimmerman wouldn't have followed him.

    Get a real transcript of the 911 tapes. You will see it was suspicious behavior that triggered George Zimmerman's response, not the fact that Trayvon was black. IN a neighborhood that has had many robberies at night by young males, there was good reason for George to follow when he saw someone that was poking around instead of walking straight home after going to the store.

    This is tragic all around. It wasn't one sided though like the race baiters tried to make it out to be.

    I could see if George Zimmerman didn't report the suspicious activity and it really was a bad person with intent to rob and potentially steal and we find out later that an elderly lady was robbed, raped, and murdered in her home and George saw this guy poking around and said nothing. I'm not saying Trayvon was like this at all, but when George saw suspicious activity in a neighborhood that has had a lot of crime, he needed to report. He felt it was his duty to call 911.
     
  33. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Here's the thing about the law that doesn't make sense to me. You can provoke someone into becoming a threat, then claim that you feel threatened. WTH?
     
  34. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    Hehe by definition, anything that is not perfect is flawed. :)
     
  35. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    So you are saying that Zimmerman provoked Trayvon to beat the crap out of him instead of speaking politely to Zimmerman and walking away? Where is your proof that Zimmerman forced Trayvon to fight? Words are words. There really are not "fighting words" as said in the movies.
     
  36. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    I watched a lot of the trial and suspected he would be found not guilty. There was just too much conflicting reports from witnesses, so enough reasonable doubt was created in this case.
     
  37. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    Even though some might feel like the verdict should be guilty, Isimply want to comment on the judicial system in the US. I think the judicial system is so much better in the states than in Mexico. In Mexico, you are guilty until proven innocent, which means you could be accused of anything and put in jail. Even if you have an accident and blood is involved, you will get locked up. So if you are involved in a car accident and someone else gets hurt, even if you did not cause the accident, you´ll spend a few good nights in jail until things get sorted out, and everything here is a slow process. The US judicial system, though it may be far from perfect, at least allows each person a fair trial and prevents what happens down here, from happening up there.
     
  38. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

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    It could be right. I have heard of the practice used in the past. Getting hit with one is painful but not lethal like a bullet can be. I think it's an alternative to the rubber bullets.
     
  39. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

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    I remember hearing something about a couple from the US that went to Mexico for vacation and on the way back the wife was arrested for allegedly smuggling drugs. She had done anything of the sort, but they still threw her in jail until she was proven innocent.
     
  40. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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