You'll get much more respect as a regular teacher.....NOT!

When I was a substitute teacher and complaining about how little respect I got, someone online said, "Oh, you'll get much more respect as a regular teacher." If I saw that person in real life, I would shout out the BS word to him (you know what I mean). I'm now a regular teacher, and I'm still constantly being treated like a SUB. It's very very frustrating, because I'm the permanent teacher and I see them everyday and I'm STILL not getting the respect I should have. One period, I hardly get to teach much because of all the disruptive and disrespectful students. In that period, I'm more like a "security guard" than a teacher. Another period is almost as bad, and they're not learning much either. There's only one period that's actually decent, but even then there are a couple of disrespectful students. I'm awed at how disrespectful students are nowadays. I thought I was supposed to get respect as a regular teacher!!! I'm not a freaking sub anymore!!!!
I seriously want to teach in a private school, where the parents are paying for their kids to be there, so therefore I won't have nearly as many discipline issues and I will be respected (for the most part) and I will actually get to TEACH!!!

 

Respect doesn't come because one has a specific job title. Respect is earned.

How do you manage disruptive students? What is your behavior management plan? You might need to 'tighten up' what you are doing and let the kids know that you're 'in charge'.

 

Parents who pay tuition don't always translate into kids who are respectful. They're two different issues.

I think I get respect not because someone in my kids' homes signs a tuition check, but because the kids see me as a teacher deserving of respect. (Of course, we're ALL deserving of respect, but the kids don't always see it that way.) As Czacza said "Respect is earned."

 

I agree with the Alice and Czacza...respect must be earned. I teach elementary in a pretty upscale area. My students are well behaved and show me a lot of respect, but the students in the room next door are wild and don't listen or respect the teacher or each other. There is no difference in the kids, it's all about behavior management and expectations. I expect my students to act a certain way, whether I'm in the classroom or not, they know what's expected, and they do it.

You do deserve respect, now you just have to prove it to yourself and your students. I know you are a few months into the school year, but it's time to start over and get the respect you want. Work on a behavior management plan that will work for your students, expect excellent behavior, and don't accept anything else. It can get better, but it's up to you. The kids won't change their attititudes if you don't make them.

 

Last year, my tuition paying lowest level kids, who were angelic in my room (OK, not exactly "angelic" but very good) for me, decided to shoot spitballs at their English teacher. I pulled 3 of them aside, told them they were the class leaders, and I wanted them to use those leadership skills and get it to stop!! And it did. Not because they respected their English teacher, but because they respected me.

 

Hi Davidfizix!
Welcome and I hope you will get that RESPECT soon!
You need to start showing them you MEAN BUSINESS. It is hard, especially if you don't nib it @ the butt RIGHT AWAY. You have to do some serious disciplining. I feel for you because it sounds like those kids have been getting away with stuff for a very long time. LET THEM KNOW & SHOW THEM THAT YOU ARE THE BOSS!
Good luck,
Rebel1

 

Did these students know you as a sub before? The students who know me as a sub would still treat me like a sub till I laid down the law and held my ground. I think it would be very challenging to become a full time teacher where I'd been subbing.

Most of the classes I sub say, "I wish you were our regular teacher". They would be sad to find out that I'd have a much different management strategy if I was there full time and responsible for their educational outcomes.

 

Gonna throw in a plug for Whole Brain Teaching. It works, even in high school!

 

Hang in there! You've definitely come to the right place for advice on Behavior Management (or Behaviour if you're reading from our British or Canadian teachers). There's a whole section on this subject in the annals if you care to look through them. In the meantime, welcome to the forum. I wish I could be more helpful, but my classroom isn't a physical one and my issues are really weird compared to a more traditional setting.

 

Sent you a pm David but the box is full,
Good to see you posting again, First year is
the toughest usually and maybe on top of that you have
some classes from Hadees.

 

Private school tuition paying kids don't equal well behaved/respectful kids. I've found the opposite. The public school students I used to sub for were much better behaved. The general thought I see from kids and parents alike is that their tuition money is what keeps the school open therefore they can do whatever they want.

 

I really see no more correlation between tuition and behavior than between eye color and behavior.

 

You're lucky then. I live with what I described in my small private school.

 

Oh, I'm sure you were being truthful. It's just not what I see in the large Catholic high school in which I teach.

 

I was a substitute before I began my teaching career. I never had an issue with respect from the students. Once I got my own classroom, things were certainly different planning & instruction wise since I was working by my own rules & plans . . . but respect was never an issue.

 

I think the difference between sub and reg ed teacher is rules/routines.

As was mentioned above, you don't get respect...you earn it. As a sub, you have very little opportunity to earn it.

As a regular teacher, you can establish rules and routines. Rewards and consquences. The less you do this, the more behavior problems you will have. Classroom management is a difficult skill, take the time to observe senior teachers in your building and to learn from them.

Above all else, establish a seating chart and enforce it like a Nazi. The seating chart is the most powerful classroom management tool you have. Adjust it and move kids around until you find an arrangement that minimizes their time off task.

 

I got a bit of that mentality when I went to a (pricey) private university for grad school. I lost count of the times when a student would gripe and complain about every little thing or when they thought the administration wasn't sensitive enough; it always began with "For the tuition I'm paying...it should be like [fill in the blank]." Talk about a sense of entitlement.

 

Getting back to the original question though, respect isn't something you're given. It's something you have to earn. Your entire demeanor, your actions, your tone of voice all contribute.

The great thing is that, once you have it, the kids will do almost anything you ask and you'll keep that respect.

 

I am going through the same thing David. What are we doing wrong? Ive never been so disrespected by nieces, nephews, kids at church, etc. Why is it not an issue for some but so difficult for me(and David).

 

All of us have had difficulty at one time or another.
It can fluctuate from year to year depending on the students and how they are placed in your class. I've seen the most veteran of teachers get a year with one or two 'bad' classes.

You have to go in the FIRST DAY and set your ground rules and the tone of your classroom. IMMEDIATELY. Get the students knowing your routine without hesitation. I can look at a student who is acting up and, for the most part, they will give me a wide-eyed look and stop what they are doing. Occasionally they will want to try to outdo me-but it doesn't last long.

You are the boss..let them know it.

 

Respect, as stated before, isn't given, it's earned. That said, we've only talked about half the equation. You also need to respect THEM. That starts by knowing who they are. If they think you don't care, then they won't care. If they think you think they're somehow "less", they'll give you exactly what they think you expect. None of the negative has to be true, they just have to think that. I worked with some of the toughest kids in a large, gang infested, drug ridden, violent city, and the same kids who would move heaven and earth for me would (and did) tell another teacher to "shove a broomstick up your *blank and go....." I think you can fill in the rest. It's a lot of work, but it can be done.

 

I'm currently doing my student teaching in middle school math and lack of respect from some students is easily the most frustrating issue I have faced.

I live (and hope to teach) in a rural school (western NC area), so I realize I don't face many of the challenges confronting urban teachers. Still, I am constantly amazed at the LACK of respect students seem to have towards teachers nowadays. We had problem kids in our class when I was in school too, but the level of disrespect, even by the worst kids, wasn't nearly what I see daily. Times truly have changed.

My current challenge is one student in particular. He literally goes out of his way to be disruptive and distracting at times. He gets up and wanders around the room every day and his behavior sometimes borders on being outrageous. It got so bad one day that the other students complained to their homeroom teacher about him. They also told the teacher this student had bragged about deliberately trying to get a "rise" out of me every day. In one respect, that made his actions easier to deal with, because I knew for certain that if I overreacted to his behavior, he would be "winning". It really helped me stay calm and realize he was approaching my class as a daily challenge to see what he could do.

As for my responses, I've tried several different strategies. Students who disrupt class receive "behavior checks" on the board that go against their citizenship grade. A lot of times, just the act of writing a students' name on the board will calm them down. That worked for a bit, but this one kid has moved past that. The day he was being particularly disruptive, I finally confronted him one-on-one in front of the class. He was wandering around aimlessly again (during teaching time) and I told him to sit back down. He huffed and said "Everyone picks on me" (a favorite tactic of his when he gets corrected for his behavior). I stopped the class and walked directly in front of him. I said "No sir, I am NOT picking on you. You ARE the only student wandering around, so I am stating a fact when I say you are breaking a class rule. Now sit down in your seat and don't get up anymore." It kinda shocked the kid that I would actually "get in his face" like that. I don't feel it was the best strategy, but I DID feel we had reached a point where something like that had become necessary.

Since then, we have had a conference with the principal and his parents have been contacted about his behavior. Despite the subsequent punishment, he still insists on being defiant and acting up in class. My CT even got onto him about his behavior yesterday and told him it was time for him to grow up.

I realize this is probably mild compared to what many of you have faced, but I'm interested in advice on other approaches I can take with this student. It's honestly reaching the point where I have a difficult time being objective towards him in class and helping him with his work, because he refuses to do his work and then claims he doesn't know how to do the work because "nobody" (meaning me) will teach him.

Since he got sent to the principal's office, his new strategy seems to be trying to blame my lack of teaching skill for his poor performance in an effort to make me "look bad". To counter this, I asked the CT to help him with his work on Friday (after he had refused help from me) to see if he would be more cooperative. He wasn't.

I suppose the next step for me is to schedule a parent/teacher conference to discuss his continued behavior with his parents, but I would love to hear other class management strategies from experienced teachers as well.

 

This may not fly..but what about just completely ignoring him?

You never want to argue with a student, they will go back and forth with you and you will end up not looking good in the long run. How is his home life? Does he get attention there? It sounds like he's just doing things to get your attention on him-and its working.

I imagine he's not as academically challenged as what he's making people believe, but he knows if he doesn't do his work-you'll turn your attention from the other students to him. Perhaps at one point make a general announcement about if the class doesn't do their work it never hurts you-it only hurts them in the long run because you've already passed middle school and gradauted.

I had students get mad at me and say we'll I'm just not doing this work. My response: Fine, I'll see you next year when you repeat the class. And I continue with what I'm doing. I don't give them the spotlight.

Have you had any response from the parents? Have you tested him to see if he truly has any learning challenges..however, it seems to me just an act of wanting to be noticed.

JMHO

 

I think you should consider making it a parent-teacher-student conference. This is HIS education, and he needs to hear what you and his parents think about it. Plus, this way he's unable to tell his parents after the fact that you got the story wrong.

 

This is one of the most wonderful plans available: http://classroompower.com/

It's a shame there's not a teacher prep class using it. I think new teachers would be more prepared for the hard core kids we have these days and some are truly hard core.

 

I do try to ignore his more mundane actions. Sometimes it works, sometimes it prompts him to try harder. The day I finally confronted him face-to-face, he started off doing minor stuff. I ignored him and he started doing more and more outrageous stuff until he was finally sitting in his seat with a folder on his head looking around and making faces at the other students. That was also the day his classmates complained to their homeroom teacher about his behavior. It's pretty bad when other students complain about a classmate acting out.

You are correct that he is not academically challenged. In fact, he has the ability to be a straight "A" student. This is one thing that frustrates me even more. I can understand why a struggling student might throw his hands up and refuse to do any work, but when it's a student that is easily capable of understanding, and doing, the work, I have a hard time understanding that.

To the best of my knowledge, his home life is fine. His parents were supportive of the school when the principal contacted them and his mom made him apologize to me for his behavior to avoid being grounded.

He IS trying for attention. My CT told me that if one student raises their hand and this kid raises his hand too, he will pout and complain if he isn't the one called on. My principal suggested I try calling on him as much as possible to give him that positive reinforcement. I've done that as much as possible, but when he sits up on his desk and starts saying stuff like "I don't know how to do this stuff. Some teacher HE is, he won't even teach me how to do this work" (after I've gone to him several times asking if he needs help and he has refused). It IS very trying, but I realize this is simply part of teaching and will happen no matter which grade I choose to teach.

I chose middle school specifically because of the changes students are going through at this time. I think my personality fits best with this age group and I know I will just have to learn effective techniques for dealing with kids like this.

I HAVE seen worse behavior. Last year, I worked as a substitute while beginning my classes for licensure (I'm working on an alternative license since I have a 4 yr degree already). In one class at a different school, there was a boy who constantly had to be the center of attention - ESPECIALLY when they had a sub in the class. One day, he came in from PE and began very blatantly "scratching himself" in his gym shorts. When I asked him to stop, he shouted "Hey, I'm ITCHING and then stood up to start scratching his privates so everyone could see him." I finally had no choice but to send him to the principal's office to explain why he needed to act that way in class.

 

Well, at least you have parental support..that would make the situation even worse.

We have a new principal and one thing I love about him is this plan:

Teachers are paid to teach, not to deal with disruptive students and to chase skipping students. If we have a student being a 'jerk', we call the office and say we need him for a student, he's there in less that 3 minutes, we point the student out and he takes the student away. We continue with class. I had to do this once. The student came back and didn't exhibit the behavior he did again-and this was in a 9th grade class. I'm not sure what the principal said to the student, but whatever it was worked.

I agree with Alice that the student needs to be involved in the conference so he knows how serious his disruptive behavior is and the consequences that he will be getting if he continues..quite honestly, if I was his mother, I'd grounded him regardless of apologizing. But..that's just me.

 

Oh, good. So I'm NOT the meanest parent in the country!!!

The apology doesn't undo the action. The consequences still happen.

 

Exactly. If my child acted like that..they would kiss me if all they got was a grounding..and if the grounding didn't last til the graduated high school.

 

It's so tough to ignore a kid when he continually disrupts the entire class because his behavior is unfair to the other kids, making it impossible for them to learn.

Does he act like this with other teachers? You might want to enlist the help of a teacher he respects - one he doesn't act up with. If he acts up in your class, she/he can talk with him and give out the disciplinary action. This helped my in a long-term position last year.


p.s. Am I in dreamland thinking that this kid should be suspended for the constant disruptions? In my day (a very long time ago) this kid would have been thrown out of the classroom and not welcomed back in school till he shaped up.

 

Ignoring doesn't really work with a kid who seeking attention as he still gets it from his peers. In high school, they are often more interested in getting attention from their peers than you and will take serious consequences just so they can get a wow response from their peers.

Sitting them out in the hallway with a pile of worksheets is pretty effective with some of them.

 

Far from it. My kids are currently only allowed to read books, do puzzles and do housework. Lets just say Thursday didn't go so well.

 

Now to post on the actual topic....

Middle school is an interesting age (to put it nicely). In time, you will develop a style that works with your personality that controls behavior. You can learn a lot from observing what doesn't work. Ignoring this child doesn't work, talking to his parents doesn't work. What else doesn't work? Try something different. I would not have tolerated obscenity at all. He would have been in the principal's office the moment he sassed me over the scratching, though chances are, he probably wouldn't have done it in my classroom. I was one of those teachers who could get kids to behave who wouldn't behave for anybody else. Why? Because from day one I had a No Bull policy. The kids called me sarge behind my back and I had a reputation for being a hard a$$. I wouldn't let so much as a snide look pass the first few days of class. But that's me and my personality. The same thing might not work for you. Keep experimenting. Eventually you'll have your breakthough moment.

 

I agree about the obscenity and sassing. The only reason I didn't send him to the principals' office immediately is because I wanted the school to think I could handle a classroom as a sub and wouldn't be sending kids to the office everytime they acted up.

You said you wouldn't let even a snide look pass. What did you do when kids gave you those looks?

 

It starts from the first day. I explain to the kids that I only have one rule and that is "RESPECT". We then discuss what that means. What IS respect? They hear it all the time and don't really know. Respect means treating other people with kindness even when they don't deserve it. Respect means staying polite even when you disagree with the others. It means to refrain from sarcasm, ect. Then we discuss what respect ISN'T. I talk about how in society, respect is earned, not given. Does that mean you can be rude to your mean elderly neighbor? No. While you don't have to respect him, you still must be polite. We talk about how it's important to be respectful of others,and most importantly, of themselves. We come up with reasonable expectations of classroom definitions based on that definition of respect. After that, if somebody is backtalking or making rude faces or whatever, then I simply ask if they're being respectful. Ususally, the class shames them into admitting that they're not being respectful to me or to the rest of the class. One thing that's important here is that I NEVER raise my voice at them. I show them the respect that I expect them to show me. Simply calling them out on the bad behaviors each and every time they happen in the first few days of class is generally enough to keep them in line the entire rest of the year.

ETA: I re-read this and noticed that I didn't make something clear. The mean old man example is an example of respecting yourself.

 

That's great advice, mmswm.

I always speak in a calm tone and try never raising my voice (unless the entire class is beginning to talk and I have to quiet them down). I also had a talk with my class about respect today. I had one student who insisted on talking and laughing with his neighbor every time I turned to write something on the board. After looking their way and telling them to stop with no effect, I stopped the class and sat down on my stool - my sign that I was unhappy with the class behavior. I explained the students are to treat their classmates and teacher with respect if they want to be treated with respect in return. If they don't treat others with respect, they cannot expect others to respect them either.

As for my "problem child", he continued his behavior as normal today. I spoke with my CT and we agreed a parent-teacher-student conference was well justified. I went out the line of cars for Parent Pickup to speak with his mother, but she was near the front by the time I got there and the teacher had already called the student to come out. I decided I would just call the mom tomorrow. As the student walked to the car, he made another face at me and went "Nyaaah" as he walked by. The teacher directing the Parent Pickup line told me the mom could be a real "spitfire".

Before I left school this afternoon, I got a call from the students mom requesting a parent-teacher conference concerning what was happening in my room. I told her I was glad she had called and would be happy to schedule a conference because I had been planning to call her for the same thing. That set her back a bit and she said "What do YOU want to have a conference about?", so I gave her a few examples of her son's behavior.

This will be my first parent-teacher conference, so we will see how it goes.

 

Every heard of macintosh syndrome? Sounds like this kid has it bad. Keep going with the respect thing. It works really well. I worked in one of Miami's worst neighborhoods, and even these street smart, gang influenced kids responded to that approach.

 

I edited my previous post....

 

Keep it absolutely factual. No opinions, no guesses as to intent, just the facts. It's easy to argue about "rude", but harder to argue with he made another face at me and went "Nyaaah" as he walked by."

 

My CT told me the same thing - document specific incidents rather than just saying "He's disruptive and disrespectful". That is easy to argue, but it's hard for the parent to argue when I say "On this day, he made a face and snide remark as he walked by. On this day, he made faces at me as I called role." etc etc.

So I am making a list of specific events he has done to illustrate HOW he is being disrespectful and disruptive.