Discussion in 'Behavior Management Archives' started by Ms.Jasztal, Aug 10, 2006.
Aug 10, 2006
If students have a problem with calling out, what do you do to teach that procedure?
I talk about why it's important to wait and then I ignore them when they do it. For example, I ask "What is 2 plus 2" Johnny is yelling "four! Four!" Clearly he is right but I igore it and call on Sally and she answers "four". I say, "thanks Sally for following the raising hand procedure that we've spoken about, I really appreciate it, you are correct!" Pretend you didn't even hear Johnny! After one or two times, he'll get it and want to do it right.
We probably need to know more about the student to provide better advice, but I agree with Cyndi23. Additionally, I would also have a private conversation with the student. I would tell the student that I was really glad that s/he wanted to participate. It is the kind of student behavior I am looking for. I just need you to do it in the correct manner so that there is order in the class and everyone gets to participate. I would go on to explain my expectations/procedure and tell the student that I will provide support as s/he learns the process. Finally I would thank the student again and give him or her lots of praise for wanting to be an active participant.
When I was student teaching in 2nd grade, we had this problem with one kids... she's very smart and usually very cooperative, but constantly called out in class, "forgetting" to raise her hand (she reminds me a LOT of myself!!!). We gave her a mini "behavior system" wherin we gave her 3 index cards, labelled 1,2,3. They stayed on the top of her desk, and if she spoke out, we took a card. If she had any cards left at the end of the day, she got a sticker... if she brought her cards up and reminded us.
This worked REALLY well for her, and we used it with different "target behaviors" for a couple other kids as necessary.
Maybe that will help.
Good thought, but the difference between this approach and the approach I suggested earlier is that here the student learns to behave in a particular manner to get a particular reward...the sticker. Whereas with the earlier suggested approach the student learns to behave in a particular manner because she is intrinsically motivated and it is the right thing to do.
You might reply reminding me that you gave her the sticker only if she remembered. My response would be that in that case, the behavioral tool you are employing is being used incorrectly and therefore probably not the right tool for the job.
Be careful about quickly employing behavioral approaches when they may not be necessary.
The fact is that some students need extrinsic motivation. A student who chronically talks out may not benefit from frequent talks. I like the use of the index card, although I do think that she should get the sticker even if she does not remind you. The reward is for raising her hand, not for remembering the card. I've also seen the use of a sticker chart in which each time the student raised his/her hand and waited to be called on, he earned a sticker. When the card was filled up, he earned a prize.
She only needed the cards for a few days... after that, we took the cards away and she continued to behave appropriately without extrinsic rewards. More than anything else, the cards were, for her, a visible reminder that she needed to raise her hand... I don't think we should ALWAYS give external rewards, but, in this particular case, it was a quick, and very effective solution.
Aug 11, 2006
I have a colleague who has a container with sticks, one with each student's name on it. When she wants a response from a student, she pulls one at random and calls on that student to respond. Pretty well takes care of most response problems.
I know I was treated when I was in Kindergarten a way I feel was inappropriate. I loved to participate and wanted to join in that sometimes I would forget to raise my hand or raise my hand while talking. Here I'd like to note I was diagnosed ADD/ADHD in 6th grade (I believe I had it even at 5). My teacher, who was known for her overly strict methods even after I left her, frequently sent me to "time-out" for doing this.
I think punishing a kid in that way for wanting to participate is not the greatest thing to do. It teaches them to not like participating. If they are chatting with a friend it is totally different then if they are merely talking out while trying to add to the lesson. I was very shy, and hardly ever talked to my peers at that age and the teacher was the one person I actually talked to, and she was discouraging me to come out of my shell.
Yes I do remember Kindergarten, I was held back and took it twice, with my late birthday on top of that I was a bit older then most. Though some of my teachers methods weren't the best I will mentioned I decided at 5 or 6 I wanted to be a teacher (as soon as I figured out teachers weren't born teachers) and stuck with it. This means she must have done some things right. I just don't think you should punish a student for good behavior even if it isn't given exactly the way you want especially at 5.
Thanks for posting that idea! I was going to recommend that because I've seen it work in one classroom very well that I visited and I've also seen a teacher at work who has no procedure in place to call on students. And let me tell you, not only did she get the same students yelling out, but the other kids eventually got angry and accused her of only calling on the same "smart" kids and they felt left out. Some of those kids may take a longer time to think about the question and raise their hands, but I've learned that those kids will know the answer also. So I plan on incorporating this in my new classroom. :thanks:
Of course this is true. However, educators frequently apply extrinsic motivation and other behavioral interventions as their first thought. For many, these are the only tools they have. The problem is, they are not always the most effective approaches for the task at hand. Going back to the OP...I would want to know the reason for the calling out behavior. This would guide my response.
The reason some children call out the answer is because they are very bright children and they know just about everything...except how to keep quiet.
They are lacking some very important life skills...Patience and empathy come to mind. I suggest doing whatever works best to teach these children common courtesy and empathy for others. They need to learn that they are not the cat's meow. If it takes a time out to do it, then so be it. We don't like know-it-all adults and I would bet that they were know-it-all children ... and were never taught how to use their manners. What a shame.
This came up in a special ed course I was taking this week. The facilitators suggested giving the "offender" a sticky note to put on his/her desk. Every time they called out, they needed to put an "x" on their sticky. Every time they remembered to raise their hand, they put a check mark. At the end of the day, the student will often be surprised at how often they called out inappropriately. By providing the student with a visual which shows the frequency of the problem, they can begin to self-monitor. Not sure if it works, but I thought that it was an interesting suggestion.
I once had a HS Junior who made the mistake of snapping his fingers to get my attention as I was checking homework. (And he was a really sweet kid who just forgot his manners!)
I let him know that I had waitressed my way through high school and college. As a waitress, if someone snapped their fingers for my attention, they were in for a long night of being ignored. So it CERTAINLY was NOT going to work in my classroom!
Poor kid. I've never seen a kid get so red, so fast. But my point was made, to him and his 35 classmates!
Aug 12, 2006
See I wish know-it-all syndrome had been my issue. I struggled through school and definitely didn't know it all. I liked that particular teacher, and it was Kindergarten so it was all new to me and I was still excited. I called out because I was excited and probably hyperactive at that time too. By first I was able to completely control that but I think it takes a while to learn. I would definitely try things besides time-outs first to see if they worked. Nothing else was tried with me.
I just don't think you want to make excited, motivated students lose self esteem and motivation. I definitely had no self esteem by third grade. It has taken me most of college to earn back the self esteem I lost in the public educational system. Not that it was completely to blame, no ones childhood is perfect and mine definitely wasn't. I just think teachers really have the ability to build students up or break them down and they need to be careful which one their methods are doing.
Jenni, I would like to apologize to you for what happened to you at such a young age. How evil can a teacher be to put a child in time out because he/she is excited about learning and is excited about knowing the answers to questions. Speaking as a Head Start teacher of 6 years (formally), I have definately had children who likes to call out and would even jump up out of their seats to maybe participate in an activity etc. I LOVE those children who loves to answer questions and participate. I think that your situation was a horrible one because you were in Kindergarten, very young, and probably couldn't manage yourself long enough to raise your hand(as most of the kids in your class probably were). I think it is a shame that your self esteem was affected by that and I wish that all teachers would take your advice into consideration and "be very careful of the methods they are using". You are right!!! Teachers can build a student up, or unfortunately, tear a student down. I think that when children get into the higher grades, then they should have better control over their actions, but Kindergarten??? Being put in time out for calling out???? I don't get it.:sorry:
P.S ~ stories like yours is why I wanted to become a teacher. I have a few stories of my own.
Younger children need extrinsic rewards whether it is something physical (sticker, candy) or just a pat on the back...which itself is extrinsic. It is part of their development. They go from outward to inward...they want to please you, not themselves. They see the reward, or praise as pleasing you. I get really tired of hearing intrinsic..intrinsic...intrinsic. Yes by the time they are upper elementary, jr. high and high school then they need to do things for intrinsic reasons. But the little ones need constant extrinsic so that it becomes internalized for them...like I said before whether it is a sticker, a skittle, or a pat on the back with the teacher saying, "Good job."
This is a GREAT thread!!!
First, let me say that I am still that student who is always ready to answer (when most of my classmates are either in a daze, too shy, or don't have an answer). I've noticed that in college, whenever I end up with a classmate in a second or third class with me (no matter how many semesters later), they most often know my name while I am clueless as to theirs. I have recently begun to question if it is because I speak out too much in class (and my name tends to be one of the first the professors learn, I might add). Now, this opinion is somewhat biased because there can be other factors influencing this, such as the fact that I am of the white minority at my university, and I dress differently than most students my age (no jeans, skimpy tops, jewelry, or makeup...).
However, I realized this past semester in an English class where the professor was very good about calling on everyone and creating an atmosphere where everyone was comfortable to respond (he should be a teacher's ed professor!) that I had to bite my tongue not to call out too often in the manner that worked fine in most of my other classes. I actually felt like I had forgotten how to raise my hand before answering because I had gotten used to classes where most people were just glad I answered so the lecture could move forward.
So, I really relate to these students who want to answer all the time. And yes, it is often highly influenced by the desire to please the teacher.
Now, as to how to respond to such students...
I tried explaining to my third grade students why I needed them to follow procedure and why I ignored them when they didn't raise their hands... and it helped a lot. (Unfortunately, my CT did not have that issue under control, so the class was used to all clamoring for her attention and interrupting when she was working with another student. But, she supported me handling it my way. )
The reason I would suggest caution in the use of popsicle sticks is because of the likelihood that that will not be the best thing for EVERY student in the class. I am thinking of learning disabilities and shy personalities in particular. I was taught that learning disabled students need longer to process the question before they can even start figuring out the response. So, when asking them a question, call their name and state the question, continue talking about the topic while you give them time to understand your question and formulate a response, and THEN actually ask them the question. I suppose you could do this even with popsicle sticks if you were careful, but I just wanted to mention that the stick idea set off alarm bells in my head for such situations. Also, shy students and student with other issues could find the stick approach traumatizing for them. It seems like it's safer to choose your student to question based on the question difficulty (that way you can ensure that every student is successful).
As for the card and sticky note ideas...
I think either of these would have worked for me... just to help me become aware of the situation in a measurable manner. I agree that the reward part of it is touchy because I feel that there is often too much use of extrinsic rewarding... but there are also those who swing too far the opposite way. Thanks to whomever mentioned that children move from the stages of extrinsic to intrinsic motivation... our staunch "intrinsic only" folks might consider that. (I am not pointing at whomever posted to this thread, I am thinking more of my last CT who touted "no material rewards" but had a very turbulent, unorganized classroom environment that drove linear-thinking me nuts. )
I use the popsicle sticks for many reasons. Sometimes--ok many times the shy kids use their shyness as an excuse not to answer. Many times they're too timid to raise their hands, but they know the answer and if they realize that EVERYONE will have a turn answering, they are more willing to speak up.
Many times the struggling learners use their struggle as an excuse not to pay attention so that they don't have to answer. I've found that many struggling learners "space out" and when you ask them a question, they go blank and say that they don't know. I don't believe it's because they don't know, it's because they weren't paying attention. When they know I'm going to use the sticks they sit up and pay attention because they know they will be called on. I teach my students to be patient. I always say, "It's ok, think about your answer and I'll come back to you." I leave their stick in sight so I won't forget.
Just because you're shy or you have a learning disability, doesn't mean you can't participate in class (life). You can't hide behind your disability /shyness your whole life.
When you know you are going to ask a question, it is good to start your phrase with, "Who can raise their hand and tell me...?" After awhile, most students will be trained and you can start weening that phrase out of your questions.
I agree! Some shy children are just too shy to raise their hand. I learned that during my student teaching, when the shy children would finally get up the nerve to raise their hand, the more damanding children would moan and gripe about not being called on...which in turn made the shy children think twice about raising their hands next time. I also learned that the child in the class who had ADHD would NEVER raise his hand because he knew that my CT would never call on him anyway. He would play in his desk, walk around the classroom and even disrupt the lesson. So what I did was when I took over the class, I called on him as much as I could (enough that was fair). What I found out was that he knew the answers and actually liked being right! The other children even accused my CT of telling him the answer because she was sitting near him. But she didn't!! That day I knew that it is the best practice to call on ALL the children despite learning disabilities or whatever. That is why I will incorporate the popsicle stick thing in my classroom this year!
Valid points. Thanks, all!
Wow, this is a great thread!
I usually say, "Let me see your hand if you can tell us ....?" Then when someone shouts out, I put on my "surprised/confused face", look across the whole group and say sadly, "Uh-oh, I'm hearing a voice, but I don't know where to look," or when several students are talking at once: "Oh, I get too confused when I hear several voices at once. Please raise your hand so I know where to look," or "I call on one child at a time. That way I don't get confused."
Another nice one-liner is, "Oh, I only call on children who raise their hands." If the "offender" continues to shout out, I just act like a broken record and repeat, "Oh, I only call on children who raise their hands."
Aug 13, 2006
I have the popsicle sticks (which work extremely well), yet I try to change the way I instruct every once in a while so the students aren't stuck with one style of questioning. My students did much better on the second day of school than on the first... but I worry because last year's students were notorious for calling out (a good five of them, at least).
Though I like the popsicle approach for certain times I don't like it for others. It is a great way to group kids and to play review games. I don't think it should always be used though. I don't think you should make it a habit to intentionally call on students who you know don't have the answer. Whether it was because they weren't paying attention or otherwise. This embarasses kids and puts them on the spot.
Having severe reading problems in Elementary school I was put to the point of tears on several occasions. Usually this only happened with subs who didn't know I couldn't read and would ask me to answer questions on readings I couldn't read or ask me to read aloud from text I again, couldn't read. When I was tested during 5th I was at a 1st grade reading comprehension level, this tells you how severe of a problem I was having. However, I was still in the regular classroom for math, social studies, and science along with extra times. I was pulled out for reading, english and spelling through 5th grade and the first fourth of 6th before we moved and I was placed in a middle school instead of an elementary.
All I know is I was so upset by teachers who embarassed me infront of the whole class. It was already known by the class I was LD and I was already harassed by other students because of it. To make me stumble over a reading infront of my peers was just cruel. In first grade it is different to have a child read aloud who can't do it well. In first grade they are all still learning. But to make a student in 5th grade answer a question you know they don't know or to make them read something you know they can't read is just cruel. It crushes them. As I said in another thread, I am still gaining back self esteem I lost in the public school system.
With the subs I mentioned before I remember actually getting so upset I would run from the room. Usually I ended up so upset I made myself ill or cried off and on for the rest of the day. I was always sensitive and I can't imagine what I would have done if the teacher would have pulled sticks and randomly handed me questions. I believe children need chances at success. Something such as saying "John please pay attention I am going to ask you the next question." would be a lot more just then merely calling on him for the next question without prior knowledge. Though it may embarass him slightly to be pointed out it isn't as bad as forcing him to come up with an incorrect answer that he has pulled out of his hat.
Jenni, I am sorry for what happened to you when you were younger. It is awful. But now, with your experience, you know exactly how your students who are having difficulty feel. If I know a student is struggling with an answer, but I know they have been paying attention, I will use probing...where I give them a bit more...or direct their thinking to where I want it to be. That way the student gets to the answer and does have success. You are right, all students need to experience success.
Jen, I'm sorry for what you went through.
You're absolutely right. I use the sticks, but not exclusively. I've even been known to read a different name than was on the stick if I knew the person I drew was incapable of answering the question. The children still had the illusion that I was picking sticks fairly, but in reality, I was basically evaluating whether or not it was at the appropriate level for that student. I didn't do that often, but I did do it.
Sometimes with younger kids, I would say," I'm going to ask a question." Hands go up even before the question has been posed. I say, "I'm going to call on someone who is sitting up straight and paying attention." Then I pose the question and only call on kids who were sitting up and paying attention. With the younger kids who really want to be called on--even if they don't know the answer--it works.
Isn't it funny how first graders will raise their hands and then when you call on them, they say, "I forgot." or " It was just in my head and now it's gone!" You know they didn't know, they just wanted to be called on!!
Good observation!! I see that all the time.
It is adorable how they just want a chance to be the center of attention for a few seconds even if they don't know the answer. I did my practicum with 3rd grade and the cooperating teacher did something I really liked. At the beginning of each day she'd ask the class (after they were settled down and everything) "Who has something they are just dying to share this morning?!" Then she'd allow each student, or whichever ones wanted to, to share something. It was so funny how one would talk about a storm last night and the rest would add things to it. Some of the stories had to be made up but it was still fun to let them share. This gave them a chance to get things out and be the center of attention.
Also during my practicum I would sometimes allow the whole class to answer together. We'd be going through multiplication review and I'd be like, "Ok everyone when I point to the question tell me the answer". The kids loved it and it was far less time consuming then calling on everyone individually. It also gave all students success, because even if they didn't know the answer they could just say it after others had said the right one. You knew which ones weren't getting it and which ones weren't but they didn't stick out to the rest of the class. Then you could review or whatever to get the rest on the same page.
As for the stuff that happened with me, I believe anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Though I am still getting over some things from childhood I have also grown a ton by having to deal with certain things. I also think because of my problems I can look at things differently then others without them might. Also I believe in some cases dyslexia is a gift. Though I struggled with some things and still do there are other things I am strong at that others aren't. I also have been told I have a lot of compassion for others due to my own challenges and I believe teachers need that compassion to work well with their students.
I agree with everything you said...and you are a wonderful teacher I bet! I especially feel for the quiet kids...and the ones who struggle. I have had many in my 16 years of Preschool and it has always been such a joy to see them come out of their shells. They just sparkle and shine when they are give a chance and made to feel secure. When I was "new" and saw a teacher being harsh to one of those quiet, gentle little ones, I wouldn't say anything. Today is a different story...we are the voice for these little ones who can't very well defend themselves. Anyway, sorry for rambling, but I can see you love the kids as much as I do!
P.S. I had a rough childhood and parts of my life were very sad. I think you are right. It does make you a better person in the end.
Aug 18, 2006
What about the children who shout out in an attempt to impress the teacher because they have low self-esteem and just want to fell "smart" or "liked"? I've seen this on numerous occasions. They feel that the teacher ignores them and yelling-out is a way to get their attention.
Sep 17, 2006
It is bad to give a warning for calling out? Usually after one warning the behavior stops, but it reoccurs the next day.
You have to give them a warning...it's part of what they need to learn...it's part of good manners and caring about other people.
Well, I meant on the official yellow, orange, red wheel on the board. Sometimes I give a verbal warning, but if it happens again, I do the clothespin on the wheel thing.
Kids have the 'need' to shout out for many reasons. Making sure you have a variety of allowable response methods does help. Choral response is a good one. You could also prompt, 'Let's hear from anyone wearing blue', or 'All students who finished their math homework last night, please answer'. Achieves a few objectives at once. Those who have low self-esteem need every opportunity to answer (reasonably) that they can get, as long as it is appropriate.
I simply say "I'm only listening/accepting answers from those who raise their hand" then beam at the student I do call on. It's a verbal (sign language) cue for the student having trouble remembering, but not the one they want (they want me to look at them and call on them). After a while, it works.
Sometimes (1st grade) I raise my hand a little (for a visual cue) while I'm looking for someone to call on.