Writing names on ths board

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by otterpop, Jul 20, 2014.

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  1. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    Writing names on the board

    Another thread made me wonder...

    Do you write names on the board to track negative consequences?

    I think I read somewhere not to because it creates a negative classroom environment or seeing a name written for negative reasons damages self worth, especially when posted for the class to see. Wish I could remember the source, but it said to only write names for all to see for positive reasons. But obviously that's just one view. It does seem like an easy system to manage - one check means 1 minute from recess, 2 means 5 minutes, etc.

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. mathteachertobe

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    I mentioned that I do this recently. I understand the thinking behind the other approach, but honestly, I don't think my 8th graders find it too demeaning. They are old enough to get it, and it's time (I think), with high school looming, for them to get clear feedback when their behavior is unacceptable. It also lets the rest of the class know that my rules are enforced.

    Since you are mentioning recess, I'm guessing you teach elementary. If you have the same students all day, you might not want them seeing their name up there all day. My students are gone after 50 minutes. In elementary I'd probably take a different approach.
     
  4. Jerseygirlteach

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    I know Harry Wong thinks that this is a good idea, but I do not. Children are likely to have one of these two responses to their name being on the board: pride in the attention they've received or embarrassment from a public shaming. I really don't think either of these things iis productive. Plus, I find that children respond better with positive reinforcement rather than negative. So, if anything, I would write their names on the board as an acknowledgement that they're making good choices.
     
  5. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    Yeah, I do teach elementary. I will be teaching 4th.

    (Also, sorry for the typo in the thread title! I hate typing on tablets.)
     
  6. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    No, not any longer. I have found being so public with consequences invite power struggles and backtalk. I try to keep things more private. It is easy to have a similar system and keep track on a clip board. It has worked out well to stop putting names on the board. The backtalk has gone way down. In my experience, embarrassing students often costs the teachers in some way.
     
  7. otterpop

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    I wasn't a huge fan of Wong's book, although there were some good parts. I could also imagine the two reactions you described.
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I wonder if a parent would have any grounds to claim that you were violating FERPA if you wrote names on the board as part of your discipline system. I'm not sure, but it might be worth looking into.
     
  9. 2ndTimeAround

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    oh dear.

    by that same token you should never speak to a student publically. No "sit down please" or "see me after class."
     
  10. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I used to my very first half-year but I also was not getting good results out of it, and I was seeing the same behavior JerseyGirl found.

    I currently track behavior privately on a clipboard and do my best to make my consequences as private as possible. Even then, kids know who just got in trouble and who didn't, because they're not stupid. And in fact it generally works in my favor because it's less clear what consequence I gave to whom so it gives me a little bit more freedom and wiggle room with how I handle my consequences.

    That's not to say that names on the board can't work. It's just not my system of choice.
     
  11. KinderCowgirl

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    I would ask what the purpose was for you doing it that way? Are you trying to let the child know they have a consequence? Because certainly that's something that a private conversation with the child or individual conduct chart would do.

    I have been reading a lot lately about public behavior systems. I think it changes the dynamic of your classroom. Students are also making judgments about their fellow students because of your public judgment.
     
  12. Go Blue!

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    No. Not my style.

    Yet, I've seen plenty of MS teachers and even a few HS teachers do this especially to keep track of detentions. For some, it works very well and others not so much.
     
  13. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I don't think any behavior mgt should be visible enough for everyone in he room, and anyone who stops by, to know who's in trouble.:2cents: it's embarrassing. Kids shouldn't be humiliated into behaving.
     
  14. mathteachertobe

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    Well, middle schoolers are heavily invested in fairness. If everything is handled privately, when it is a student's turn for intervention of some sort, they have nothing to give them the perspective of who else has crossed the line and how often. Part of making consequences both public and relatively insignificant is to teach them where the line is and to demonstrate that the same line applies to everyone. Having also taught in high school, I view my responsibility as an 8th grade teacher as primarily one of preparing my students so they can be successful in high school. This strategy fits in with that goal.

    Not to sound defensive, though perhaps I will, I explicitly said I would not do this in an elementary setting. I'm not sure why all these elementary teachers feel they need to criticize me or this technique. Perhaps you should spend some time teaching 160 fourteen year olds every day. Please, then, let me know the secret to middle school behavior management.
     
  15. dgpiaffeteach

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    A lot of what has been said can easily apply to upper grades. I used it in 8th grade for a bit. I found some definitely took pride in seeing their name on the board. It worked okay, but ultimately there was better out there.
     
  16. mathteachertobe

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    Well, it works well in my room, and one thing my students say they really appreciate about my classroom is that I am very fair. Bowing out of this thread now.
     
  17. SleekTeach

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    I do! I hate when people say that there should be know public system that all the students can see...NEWSFLASH: EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS WHICH STUDENTS ARE BEING INAPPROPRIATE. It doesn't hurt to record it and that student see it. I've even gone as far as to have my students write down on a sheet of paper which students they think are causing trouble for the class. (Everyone writes about the same 1 or 2 students.) Then I conference with the students and parents to let the student know that they are being disruptive to the students. As far as writing down names on the board, I also think it's a quick way to record what's going on in class if it's in the middle of a lesson.
     
  18. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    A more positive approach seems to work better. Perhaps a "praise buck" that can be accumulated to earn some small reward in the future, or whispered word of praise that always makes everyone else wonder what was said, positive referrals that are shared with parents? I, too, would be wary of public humiliation, since that is exactly what some parent is bound to call it. If you want to track behavior, I vote for the quiet clip-board, and a quiet word before the student crosses the threshold, just so that it isn't "Gotcha!"
     
  19. MissScrimmage

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    I don't write names on the board because I don't give many 'chances' to fix behavior - I follow up with consequences pretty quickly.

    Sometimes I pretend to write kids' names on post-its at my desk... it works! One time I was jotting myself a note while a child happened to be misbehaving. When he saw me writing he immediately stopped his behavior. It was really interesting. I never mentioned his name or what might happen, but he sure didn't like the idea of me documenting his behavior!!
     
  20. Peregrin5

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    This is exactly why I'd make it private. I don't know about you, but I'm not perfect at being consistent no matter how much I try to be on top of things. It could simply be because I can't see everything at once and even then my students ideas of consistency may be different from my own and I'd just rather not get into those arguments about it. Keeping it private but being as consistent as possible leads students to just take my word for it that I'm being fair which leads to less argumentation and greater peace of mind even if I'm not perfectly catching every single thing every time.

    For my classes, if I had it visible that would lead to a lot of "but Sally did it and you didn't see her!" Or a lot of tattling. Every time I'd miss something my students would catch it (and there's no guarantee they'd let me know) and reduce my influence. Students would know exactly what they could get away with due to my limitations and I'd rather leave that vague to them.

    But again I say if it works for you stick with it.
     
  21. YoungTeacherGuy

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    I agree with every word of this! :thumb:
     
  22. swansong1

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    I have never used public discipline in my 40 years of teaching...just not my style. I have always used more subtle systems, like pretending to write names. I have usually used peer behavior systems...if the students know that a reward will be based on class behavior, they usually police each other.

    Classroom jobs are another good way to handle discipline. The choice jobs are saved for the best behaved (or for improved behavior for those who struggle).

    Ultimately, you will probably try several systems until you find the one that works for you.

    Good luck! Isn't it so exciting to be planning all these things?!
     
  23. 2ndTimeAround

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    Those of you that say you never use public discipline - do you not ever call a kid down by his name? Ever tell a student that is doing something inappropriate to stop right then? Ask someone to stay after class? If you do, that is public.

    Even stopping a lecture and whispering something into a child's ear is done for everyone to see.
     
  24. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    I agree with the posters that everyone knows who is misbehaving regardless. My para keeps a list of kids who have lost hallway privileges and i pad privileges on her white board. I don't think people just walking into the room would even notice. It's not at the front of the room where I teach, so they're not staring at it all day either. I have a lot of smaller consequences in place before a student would lose something for multiple days, so they have to pretty much be misbehaving constantly to end up on these lists, and everyone knows who those kids are anyway! We do it that way more as a reminder to ourselves...we have seven different classes, so it's sometimes hard to remember the next day who lost something, and I definitely don't want to set a consequence and then not follow through!
     
  25. gr3teacher

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    I don't write names on the board, but I also find it difficult to imagine that any teacher can truly pull off the "no public discipline" thing. I'm not sure how it would even be possible.
     
  26. Go Blue!

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    IA. Especially because the "good" kids want to see if you are going to punish the bad kids or let them run free. That fear of punishment, at times, is the only thing keeping the "good kids" in line.

    The main reason I don't use this system is that every single year, I have taught classes where pretty much every student's name would be on the board every single day. I have found that this system loses its effectiveness if you have 20 out of 21 kids' names on the board every day.

    Also, as I've said before and as I will preach until the day I die, if you don't have real consequences that you can enforce, putting students' names on the board is irrelevant and useless as a management technique. I have seen a lot of teachers do these type of discipline systems and it is really all for show because they have no way to enforce their consequences. Never threaten a consequence you can't enforce.
     
  27. teach1

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    Thank you! Yes. Exactly.

    I don't see the difference between saying "Johnny, please don't do that" and writing Johnny's name down on a warning board. They have the same purpose and the same result.... Johnny knows that you are aware of his behavior and want him to stop. Even the "teacher stare" is public.... kids are smart and know exactly who you are staring at (even as young as preschool!!!).
     
  28. dgpiaffeteach

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    Many of my high schoolers know who got in trouble because they brag about. I still don't do names on the board though. We have a demerit system and I usually use that. I do a lot of redirection as a first step.
     
  29. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    The public shaming is that anyone who walks into the room knows, not just those who witnessed the infraction. So, in a school where students switch classes and the teacher doesn't erase the names off of the board between classes or keeps multiple class lists on the board, it announces to even parties not involved that the child did something wrong.

    Names on the board is no different than a visible stop light system or other such system where a student moves his or her clip. It is still out in the open for everyone to see. Many are on board with those systems, especially in elementary school.
     
  30. teach1

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    Possibly, if the list is clearly labeled. I often write lists of names on the board for one thing or another not related to discipline.

    Just to clarify... I've used a warning board some years, and other years I have not. But it definitely wasn't a terrible form of humiliation when I did use it. It was off to the side and pretty much was good for the purpose I wanted it to be good for. I don't think a stranger walking into my room would have thought twice about it.
     
  31. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    I don't do this. But I also don't see the difference between this and the clip charts that many people use or the turning of the color cards for behavior. I don't use these either but I don't think they're terrible either. My students have pockets with their names on it. They get a green half pipe cleaner for a positive class dojo point and a red pipe cleaner for a negative point. Their names are on the pockets but it's in a fairly discreet part of the classroom. I don't see anything wrong with it. The kids can obviously hear me when I'm giving out most of the negative points. I think as long as you're not speaking to the child in demeaning way about the consequences then it's fine. My students really don't pay attention to each other's red pipe cleaners which I think comes from the tone in the classroom that we celebrate each other's successes and we don't get bent out of shape when we make a bad choice, we move on from it as quickly as possible.
     
  32. 2ndTimeAround

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    I have names on the board for lots of reasons. Once in a very long while it is because I need to remember that a student has been assigned a detention. I've written names on the board for:

    remind student that he needs to call home (Mom sent email request)
    I forgot to give an absent student an assignment that wasn't placed in the lesson plan book
    check to see if lost item found at her seat the day before was hers
    needs to attend tutoring session (for a number of reasons)
    another teacher needs to see student before school gets out
    pretty much anything that requires special attention and I'm likely to forget unless the student sees his name and reminds me
     
  33. LiterallyLisa

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    If you borrow a pencil in my classroom, you write your name on the board. There is no fancy title...just a list. I guess anyone walking by thought that these kids were in trouble...probably not. As small as my school is, the kids know who the trouble makers are, the teachers know, the custodians know, the principals know. They make themselves known everywhere.

    It is really frustrating trying to find a classroom management system for middle school. I have spent my summer trying to think of what my classroom management will be like. None of the elementary stuff works for them that I have found. Just when you think you have found something that works, someone turns around and tells you it is wrong in their opinion. I can't wait until I find one of those perfect classrooms, with kids who are intrinsically motivated (don't ask your for candy when they have been good because it is what has happened their whole school career), and don't want to misbehave because I have spent the time to build relationships, go to games, and dance recitals, etc.

    Frustrating! Clipboard was my system at the beginning of last year, I am too scattered though and set it down everywhere. When I tried to talk to students about behavior recorded on the chart, most of them couldn't seem to remember the behavior, but students knew when I was recording on it. I had to toss that though.

    What I had thought of for this year are those STOP chips on pinterest. Have a bunch laminated and made up in buckets. Students would get a warning first, or the look with an overall reminder to the class, etc. It depends on the behavior, but I would pass them to a student making a bad choice. It would tell them to stop what they are doing and reflect. Then it would mention a time to talk to me later, at lunch, after class, after school. At that time, we would talk about the behavior and the consequence. Of course, if it continues, it is something I would have to address immediately, with different consequences. It is something I am still working through.....but it is still public, because chances are some or most of my students noticed me walking to the buckets and will definitely watch who gets the chip.



    I am not trying to hijack or anything, but what do those of you that do not use "public systems" do when a student is talking during your lesson or something?
     
  34. SleekTeach

    SleekTeach Comrade

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    Let me get some popcorn, I need to see this...:spitwater:
     
  35. readingrules12

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    First, I think nearly all teachers sometimes go "public" to deal with misbehavior. I think that is okay. I would rather go public 10% of the time though instead of 90% of the time which I did as a first year teacher.

    If a student is talking during my lesson this is what I do. As I am usually walking around while I teach (just my style), I stop by that students desk and give them a quick reminder to stop it (if it is the 1st time) or quickly let them know the consequence. If it is a larger issue, I will sometimes publicly say see me after class or if it is urgent to come see me for a moment.

    Do I sometimes correct a student in front of the class. Yes, but I try to do that as little as possible.

    I don't stay private for them as much as for me. I have found if I can keep things private, I take away their student audience and they are less likely to argue or backtalk. Also by going up and telling them only a foot away from them, they are less likely to talk back then if I am 15 or 20 feet away from them.
     
  36. Linguist92021

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    I was taught and always believed that you shouldn't write a student's name on the board for negative consequences, but after seeing how a teacher at my school does it, and it works well for him, I tried it and I've been using it for over 6 months with great success.

    I teach high school. I used to write names down on a clipboard (seating chart, or paper on my desk) and although this worked wonderfully when I subbed, I think in my own classroom it created a negative culture. It seemed as if I was manipulating students by being secretive, and it created fear.
    You would think the students would know if they were in trouble, but I had a lot of them (often the good students) keep asking me if I was writing their names down. It was disruptive, and often the students whose names I was writing down, didn't care.

    Now I write the names of students who are getting detention. They know they can work it off in that class (and I remind them all the times) by turning their behavior around, but if their name is still up at the end, then they're getting lunch / after school detention. This actually works very well. The students are getting a visual that that they need to improve their behavior, and no one is mistakenly thinking they're in trouble. Every one already knows who's misbehaving, and the warnings they're getting, so this is nothing more.
    Out of every 20 students 1 will lose it and make matters worse, but we're dealing with a very difficult students population, and this is inevitable.
    I'd say this works for me (my P actually suggested it as a strategy, so I have her behind on this)
     
  37. gr3teacher

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    All of those things are public though. Even if the class can't hear you (and I'm sure a lot of them can), it's still going to be obvious to the class exactly what's happening. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that... I think it's what any good teacher has to do... but it is still a very public way of dealing with misbehavior.
     
  38. LiterallyLisa

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    I walk around too, which is why I always lost my clipboard :p I also agree, I found out really quickly that where you position yourself when you are redirecting negative behavior, changes how the student reacts. One reason is he/she feels less of a need to prove themselves if you are closer and making it more private.


    I honestly am just looking to make my classroom management better. :) It sounds like just another one of those things that works for some and doesn't work for others I guess. I have given my students a teacher report card, and none of them complained about getting their name written on the board. So maybe mine didn't mind.
     
  39. readingrules12

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    I agree, and being public is nearly unavoidable. I do think it is less public and leads to less confrontations than writing a name on a board.
     
  40. 2ndTimeAround

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    Yeah, I think writing a name on the board or asking a specific student to stop talking is light years away from having an argument with a kid as he has an audience.
     
  41. otterpop

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    Why do you give pipecleaners along with Class Dojo? Do you award the points on Class Dojo at a later time?

    I really don't like cards or behavior charts either... like you said, I don't see much of a difference between any of the systems. They work for the in-between kids who sometimes misbehave, but I've never seen them work really well for the kids who are consistently in trouble. I'm not against them, but in my previous experiences they haven't been the most useful strategy for me.
     
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