Would you ever do this?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by txmomteacher2, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    Dec 8, 2019

    Very long story short, would you tell a kid that if he can't attend a class party because of behavior he can come to yours? I have a student that is very impulsive. He is in trouble more than he is not in trouble. My first year co teacher told him in front of my whole class that if he can't come to my Christmas Party because of his behavior he can come to his. His behavior is just as bad in his class as it is mine but he is taking a different approach. Every time he is bad in his class, he is super nice to him. He doesn't "get mad at him" He is not like with any other student. In fact he even told me he is overly nice to this kid just to see what happens. I am strict with all my students, I have expectations and they know it. I am not overly nice to anyone student just because I want to see what happens.
    I am pretty upset that he said this in front of the entire class. I feel like he has undermined my authority with my class. (btw it wasn't the difficult student who told me this it was three other students from my class) What would you do?
     
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  3. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I think each day has to be treated like a new day. If a child misbehaves, then that child may receive a fair consequence. If a child shows up and chooses to behave that day, then it would be wrong to give a consequence. Giving a consequence so far advance or threatening one is not something I would do. If he behaves for the Christmas party, he should stay. If not, maybe he might need to leave for 10 minutes. Missing a whole Christmas party seems rather harsh.

    Another adult undermining your authority in front of the other students is inappropriate. I'd talk privately to your co-teacher and say "Hey, we might disagree with each other, but let's agree to keep our disagreements in private."
     
  4. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Just to make a point, I would never exclude a child from any class party. If he can't handle the entire party and needs a couple of quiet minutes, that is one thing - you are giving him the chance to regroup. You shouldn't be discussing who gets to go to the Christmas party this far out - period.
     
  5. Rabbitt

    Rabbitt Connoisseur

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    Dec 10, 2019

    Those are the kids that likely need the party the most.
     
  6. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I recall a few years ago one of my bigger behavior problems getting taken off the bus right before we headed out on a field trip. It wasn't that he had earned or not earned the field trip--we assumed all kids would go unless they didn't. I didn't feel terrible about that one due to his behavior and attitude on the bus.

    My point being, if he misbehaves directly at the party, that's one thing. It's a natural consequence if he can't handle the party in the moment thereof. It's quite another to use the party as a punishment/reward so far out.
     
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  7. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    Ok so far this thread has turned into telling me how I shouldn't be taking away the party. That part is not for debate in my opinion. What I wanted advice on was how to handle the coworker? BTW I did not take away the party but if his behavior continues to be awful I will. I do make a new day a new day. But this student has the attention span of a flea and the impulsivity of an electric wire.
     
  8. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I will say that what is done is done. It wasn't very professional of your coworker, but at this point it would be more drama than it's worth to rescind the invitation.

    I'd quietly tell the coworker you didn't appreciate what amounted to an attack on your authority. If he wants to invite the student to his party, that's his business, but the way he did it in front of everyone is unprofessional.
     
  9. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    I would consider if his behavior is typical, i.e., tries often to undermine your authority, or a rare mistake that is out of character for the way he usually does things. My guess is he doesn’t have a lot of training and experience dealing with discipline and the effect inconsistency between co-teachers can have on students. A heart to heart meet is in order to explain the concept that “meaning business” is quite different than “being mean”. Backing off a student sends the message you don’t expect them to behave, and students have a nasty habit of always meeting one’s expectation.
     
  10. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    I'm with you. If the kid won't behave he doesn't get the party. The rest of the class deserve to enjoy their party without if being spoiled. If the bad kids gets to come then what lesson does that teach the rest of the class?

    As to your co-worker. It''s his party so his rules.
     
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  11. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    I would speak with your co-teacher and explain how you feel. I agree that it is overstepping the boundaries. You took away the party privilege from your student, and your co-teacher essentially gave him back the privilege, just in a different way. I would discuss it with said co-teacher.
     
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  12. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Dec 11, 2019

    Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking aboput the same party, I thought you and the co-worker were each doing one. In that case as soon as the kid kicks off you insist your co-worker deals with it.
     
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  13. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    Dec 12, 2019

    We each do our own party. But the kids have their party in their homerooms. I am the student's homeroom teacher. So if he has one it's in my room. He is coming dangerously close to loosing it. And I flat out told the kid today I didn't care what the other teacher said if he can't go to mine he wasn't going to his. He was pretty shocked when I said that because I truly think he had it made in the shade and was going to his. I will not let that happen if he happens to loose it.
    As for the coworker I decided that this was his one freebie. That I wasn't going to say anything to him or my principal. However the next time I will not be so generous. I think what he did was inappropriate and unprofessional.
     
  14. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    If you don't explain your thinking to your coworker, he may misunderstand what I am sure the student is going to tell him. I think you owe him an explanation that incorporates your rationale. If you want him to learn, then educate him on what you feel is inappropriate and unprofessional. Do it without anger, and in the spirit of you two working together in harmony for many years to come. If I was your coworker, I would appreciate a straight up reason presented in person instead of me being left in the dark, only able to guess at what the problem is. None of us was born a mind-reader.
     
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  15. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

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    I totally get what you are saying, but I am also taking into consideration his personality and that of my own. He would most likely say things like "I didnt say that." He is extremely arrogant and can be down right rude. I tend to be easily agitated with people like that so I am just leaving it alone. I do have to spend another 6 months or longer being his coteacher. I am not a wave maker at school (which is not me in real life lol)
     
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  16. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Dec 12, 2019

    Every one has their own way of addressing problems.
     
  17. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Knowing this, then I would not try to dwell on the past, but make it clear in a kind way that if there are disagreements between you and he, that you handle it privately and not in front of the children. If you don't address it, the chances of it happening again and again are much more likely. Even if he ignores you, he knows that you have made it clear for him what isn't allowed. He'd be foolish to cross that line if you make it clear in a kind way that you want disagreements held in private.
     
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  18. Surviving the Classroom

    Surviving the Classroom Rookie

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    Dec 14, 2019

    I'm sure aside from this challenging event with your colleague (and student) you have been doing a phenomenal job in several other areas within your practice this year. Kuddos to you if so! Definitely take time to celebrate those moments you have been successful. Hopefully this "hiccup" will pass as you and your co-worker continuously work to identify ways that will help you both reach goals in the best interest of your student.

    What I would do...

    Co-Teacher
    I totally understand that there are times in any relationship where you would want to give the other person a pass. There are several things you might evaluate before making that final decision. You know what you have patience and tolerance for, so if you want to give your co-teacher a pass because of his arrogance and rude behavior, it's your decision in the end. However, for the example you have presented, I personally would have pulled him aside. My thoughts are about the student. I'd have to set aside my own personal feelings about the person presents themselves in general. Why? The more you can teach people up front your philosophies and learn theirs, the more likely you can increase the potential for success in you working relationship. If it made you feel a way enough to question it, address it. You would not want a repeat of this event again or played out in another fashion. Your (and the co-teacher's) goal should be about the student feeling as though you both are working in unison. When a student feels this, there is no room for them to be confused, to manipulate the situation, or make it more challenging for the teacher who is being the "bad guy/gal". There are many things that I may let pass that occur in working relationships, but I'd try to address issues when they are small and brand new. It doesn't have to come across as if you are cracking whips on him. Be easy. Spread it on light. I wouldn't want to wait until I have build up a level of frustration with a colleague before addressing my displeasure down the road. I'd fear it might come across a bit differently by that point. As a matter of fact, if it makes you feel a bit more as ease with talking to him now, you may even want to approach him as if you didn't even know the incident occurred. You can always do the "Hey I have an idea" approach and discuss a plan for planning parties in the future. This approach will allow you the opportunity to be present a bit of your ideas and philosophies while being proactive for future events. It's indirect and hopefully not to uncomfortable for you, yet proactive. A win win, no? :)

    Some things you may want to consider to do with your colleague moving forward:

    1. collaborate on incentive programs that you both can hold the student accountable for. you should include the type of incentives (with student input), the frequency in which those incentives are offered, how student will earn these incentives, and the behavior(s) you want to have him work to improve. start with one behavior at a time to address and go from there. you want the student to be able to manage the new program as well as for you and your co-teacher to be able to monitor it.

    2. collaborate on the types of behaviors you both are seeing. maybe the student is not displaying all of the challenging behaviors you are seeing in your class over in your co-worker's class and vice versa. There may be some overlap, but see in what areas and when.

    3. collaborate on how many times you are your co-teacher are going to make the student feel good about himself. "bad kids" are often told they are misbehaving often. They need to hear how great they are doing a million and one times more in areas they are actually great in.

    4. collaborate on a leading responsibility this highly impulsive student can have in your class and in your co-teacher's class. it can not only make him feel responsible and improve self-esteem, but may also decrease some of his impulsivity

    5. collaborate on the positive reports you can send home to parents and at a specified frequency

    Just to name a few...


    Student
    it sounds like your student has some significant impulsivity issues and really needs a support program teaching him how he could to do better. Often time, students with impulsivity challenges may not be able to model the behavior(s) you want them to, in all contexts that you have asked and in turn wait for a powerful reward that is not given immediately, but several days or weeks later. Why? They have not yet mastered that level of discipline.

    incentive program alongside teaching replacement behaviors - To work them up to that level of discipline, you often start with smaller rewards/incentives that are offered at a shorter frequency all while teaching them explicitly what they have to do to earn the smaller incentives. Allow him to have a say in some of the rewards he wants to earn. You may want to have him work on one behavior at a time so that you can teach him the alternative behavior and track it effectively. You can include new behaviors over time at that rate you are able to teach them and help your student manage it. Token economies, point sheets, classroom behavior point charts are a few of many things that work. You only want to use something you can manage effectively.

    classroom accommodations or modifications - I'm not quite sure what is occurring before the impulsivity occurs, but perhaps there's something about the task/demand/activity/non-activity that can be tweaked so that your student is less impulsive.

    offer lots of praise - boost confidence and strengthen your relationship by giving student lots of praise for things he does well. once in a blue shout outs or not may not be as helpful

    have 1-to-1 meetings - often time the one to one support meetings allow you to learn more about your student so that you can make even better connections with them.

    teaching style and tone- even if we put all of the research based methods in place to create the perfect teaching and learning environment, a lot of this may not always be effective for students if there is simply a personality clash. For example, firm styles for some can sometimes come across to students as abrasive (whether or intentionally or not) and lack warmth. This is not to describe your style at all. However, if students do not feel as though you care, are constantly on their back complaining, not able to connect with you during structured or non-structured activities, feel as though you don't "get them", they will check out on you.

    Of course you may already have these ideas implemented as part of your routine. Continue to keep trying and do not give up on your co-teacher. I'm sure you both have talent to help your student improve.

    Best of luck to you!
     
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  19. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Cohort

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    Dec 14, 2019

    I held off on replying to this because of mixed feelings on the Christmas party.
    I feel that your co-teacher is definitely undermining your authority. I'd normally say something asap until I read your next post on him being arrogant and rude. Only you know him and can decide if he'd learn from it, or just be a jerk.
    I tend towards extreme consistency with the kids. If I told the kids the party was behavior based (earned), then I would understand not allowing him to participate.
    Here comes the big but, :) I am 99.9% sure that we are not legally allowed to withhold or give food (cupcakes, party stuff) to a kid based on behavior in all states. Some schools may not enforce that.
    Where I am, I'd get in deep trouble if the kid or parent complained. Therefore, I do not base any parties on behavior anymore. I haven't for a lot of years now because of this law and the way our state stresses it.
    Also, the student w/ extreme impulsivity obviously has not learned delayed gratification. I don't think missing a Christmas party would teach that. It might be a reminder or memory if it was an earned party.
    I understand your frustration with it though. We used to have PBIS parties where all kids came. They were told it was for good behavior. In reality, everyone got to go no matter what they did 5 minutes before. A kid told a teacher to shut up and called her a stupid B w/ some F-bombs in there right before 1 of these events. He too was allowed to participate. GRRRRR! To me, that is just plain wrong!
     

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