Will this possibly the way schools will open up?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by readingrules12, May 8, 2020.

  1. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    744

    May 8, 2020

    I watched online the news reporting about the first school opening up yesterday in Montana. It is a huge building, but only has 56 students with an estimated 42 deciding to return to school. With 18 staff, it seemed like a unique situation.

    When I heard the other 14 are choosing to stay at home to distance learn, a light bulb went off in my head. Let's say when it is time for school, it is "safe" to open, but some teachers and some parents aren't quite ready to return. They might feel it still isn't safe enough. Let's say there are 80%-90% of the teachers returning to teach 80% of the students. In the meantime, the 20% of students who have parents who feel it is unsafe are taught online with distance learning from about 10% to 20% of the teachers who wish to do this, and don't feel it is safe to return yet? Yes, it is a bit tricky as some classes could end up having to go multi-age if the numbers don't add up well. What do you think?
     
  2.  
  3. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 8, 2020

    I like the idea, but I think it will have issues. For one, what if you don’t get the same percentage on the two sides?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Tired Teacher and Backroads like this.
  4. CherryOak

    CherryOak Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    198

    May 8, 2020

    I'm worried. Our school leaders keep floating ideas that would put me at work when my own children might not be at school. I understand the ideas. But, I have one child who needs medication throughout the day, so the average sitter isn't an option. Cringe. So, in a week I have to decide to commit to the unknown. I know we always do, technically. But, I am genuinely torn here. The mom/teacher hat is soooooo hard to predict and reason through this. Don't get me wrong - I will likely sign. I love my job. But, it's weird. I wish we could know more and I know admin wishes the same.
     
    whizkid and readingrules12 like this.
  5. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    744

    May 8, 2020

    You are in a difficult situation. This is one time, I wish teachers had more time. I think many would like to wait until July to sign a contract when we would know a bit more of what we are signing up for next year.
     
    Tired Teacher and whizkid like this.
  6. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    870

    May 8, 2020

    This is being floated as an idea in a nearby district that my friend works in. There are a lot of issues with it- namely, what if more students want to go to school than the school has room for? Do you say only certain students are allowed to go to school and how is that determination made? And if those determinations are being made, get ready for lawsuits. You could always try to do a survey to try to see what community members are thinking, but I know any time we do surveys we don't get a ton of response. What if people don't feel safe in August, but then as the months go on decide they have to get their kids back in school?

    Working online is also a significantly lighter workload than teaching in person and dealing with all of the responsibilities that come with being at school. Do you pay the online teachers less? If you do, people will cry age discrimination because presumably it will mostly be older teachers that want to stay home. If you don't, there will be bitterness around the staff being asked to take the health risks and do significantly more work for most likely less pay than people doing a few hours per day of online work (considering in most cases, older teachers are already making the most money).
     
    Caballo21, a2z and Backroads like this.
  7. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 8, 2020

    I see your point, but I also think that most of us are happy to have a job in this uncertain time. I feel fortunate to have a stable income next school year, even if it means teaching in a new way that I don't like so much. I'm glad that I already signed my contract, so that they can't backtrack on anything.
     
    a2z likes this.
  8. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 8, 2020

    I agree that teaching online has been significantly less work for me than being in the classroom was. However, I'm not sure that that will still be the case if such a plan becomes reality. For one thing, my teammates and I have split up the subjects right now, so each of us is only planning one lesson per week. Granted, it's more time consuming to film and edit videos for one lesson than planning one regular lesson would be, but it's still only one lesson and much less work than usual. If the proposed plan were to happen, I would think that the online workload would become heavier because, with some teachers doing in person teaching, there would be fewer teachers to split the online workload. Also, I'm not so sure that in-person teaching would be the same as we have known it to be. It will still be hard work, but I think the social distancing measures would require fewer small groups to plan for, making differentiation less of an realistic option, meaning less work on the teacher. I also think that only the most essential standards would be taught, since it will likely be harder to accomplish anything in class... I don't really know what it will look like, but I just don't see in-person classroom teaching being anything like what we're used to. I think the expectations will change from meeting everyone's academic and SEB needs to simply keeping everyone safe, in good spirits, and hoping that they make some academic growth.
     
    whizkid likes this.
  9. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    870

    May 8, 2020

    I don't have anyone to split the workload with and am putting out at least 4 lessons per day. At first I was working 12 hours per day figuring out all of the new technology and how it works with the various platforms our district wants us to use. Once I figured it out, I've gradually had to work less and less to get everything done. Right now I'm averaging maybe 2- 4 hours a day of work and that's including still doing IEP paperwork and meetings as well.

    I'm in a high poverty/high performance school. I don't see expectations lessening if we go back. Maybe some if they get rid of state testing and teacher evals again, but I also don't see that happening if we're there in person. Even if they do, everyone will be worried about the issues being created for future years- our student population isn't just going to bounce back like a higher SES population might. They do well because of all of the direct work we do with them and the significant focus we have on early intervention. If you skip more than a whole year of it, it's certainly no longer "early intervention."

    Besides the workload, one of the biggest perks for me is not having to deal with student behavior. We have a ton of severe behaviors at my school. Even when doing "live" things via zoom- there is that glorious mute button! I think with all of the trauma that's happening now for kids we're going to go back to an even worse situation. And kids who have issues but previously did well with the structure and predictability of school will probably no longer feel that way- they'll be worried about school being taken away from them again at any moment. And then combine that with possibly having to enforce wearing masks and social distancing in primary classrooms? That's going to be A LOT of work just by itself.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Backroads and readingrules12 like this.
  10. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588

    May 9, 2020

    Oh yes. Staggered schedules is the only thing I can see possibly working if schools open up in the fall.
     
  11. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 9, 2020

    I agree that maintaining social distancing expectations will be a lot of work by itself, which is why I think, at least in my district, we won't be held to the same exact teaching standards as we are in a usual year. I'm in a relatively small but very diverse district, in terms of SES. We have families at both ends of the SES continuum and many who are somewhere in the middle. I'm fortunate to be in a district that values SEB learning and supports (for students AND teachers) as much as academics, and I just don't see our admin putting academics first in this situation. Obviously it still matters, but it won't be the highest priority. They will care more about everyone's well-being and less about academic growth. You raise a good point, though, that this isn't the case everywhere. I guess I'm just glad to be where I am.
     
  12. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    661

    May 10, 2020

    I have heard zilch on what reopening would look like here. I am curious. Our state has not close to peaked and the virus got here later than everywhere else. If we have a chance to do this online again, I might do it. I think it'd be easier for them to go with me than to have to hire someone else. I work a good 8 hours a day and take it seriously doing the best I can. I am done though if they say we have to go back in the building. I can see how it could cause bad feelings and jealousy with some teachers if you got to stay home while others had to go back.
     
    whizkid likes this.
  13. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    744

    May 13, 2020

    With France opening up schools starting today or tomorrow, I thought this photo was interesting. It is probably pre-school...the future next year?
    Social distancing squares at school.jpg
     
  14. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    1,430

    May 14, 2020

    Schools will have to be a lot more strict when dealing with sick kids that parents toss off to school and refuse to keep home.
     
  15. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588

    May 14, 2020

    Imagine the level of contact tracing....

    "Let's find all the kids this student has been around, and then all the students those students have been around and then all the students those students have been around......."
     
    futuremathsprof and bella84 like this.
  16. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    1,430

    May 14, 2020

    Taking temps at the door will weed out some. Not 100% but at least a reason to send kid home!
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  17. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    1,146

    May 14, 2020

    I thought about a way we could make our school work. We have one side independent study. $ teachers in 1 classroom, so essentially 4 students at a time (hourly appointments) although we often have more that stay longer or come in for additional time. They can just be spaced 6' from each other. So that's fine.

    The other side of the school is blended. Each teacher teaches 2 classes a week, 3 hours each. I always said that this was the worst idea, 25 kids in a math class once a week (the other class has other 25 kids) all kinda of levels, etc. Don't get me started on it haha. The remaining time those teachers have independent study appointments.
    So I'm thinking have those teachers teach all 6 periods every day, for 1 hour each (like we used to) and kids come to school Monday-Thursday. We could this way have 10-12 kids in each classroom, spaced out 6 feet from each other, and class size would be less.
    This could work, but during breaks and lunch, the kids would probably defy the 6' order and we'd be chasing after them regulating the whole time.

    It's either that, or we somehow get the funds and provide each student with a Chromebook with a data plan. We continue with phone calls, now we'd have regular Zoom meetings and teachers could upload video lessons to Google classroom (I'd prefer this to Zoom meeting classes).And the independent study students on our side would drop off work weekly, not every 3 weeks.
    I think this could really work.
     
    futuremathsprof and Backroads like this.
  18. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 14, 2020

    I just don't believe that keeping people (students and adults) six feet apart at all times within a school building is either feasible or going to prevent the spread of a virus. Staying six feet apart is a good idea for times when you have to briefly pass someone, but it's just not going to work for extended periods of time inside a building. Air recirculates. People walk through space that other people were just in. People touch things that others have touched. If we only had students in a building for half an hour at a time, once a week, then something like this might work. But there is no way that we're going to prevent a virus from spreading by thinking that students can just sit and walk six feet apart all day, every day.
     
  19. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588

    May 14, 2020

    Hell, forget the door, you wouldn't even want them on the bus if infected.
     
    CaliforniaRPCV and bella84 like this.
  20. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588
  21. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    1,430

    May 15, 2020

    Good idea. there would need to be a bus monitor helping with that. Sorry, kid. You have to go back home because you're temp is 101..9 and your parents didn't have a clue.
     
  22. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,033
    Likes Received:
    1,854

    May 15, 2020

    It makes my heart hurt looking at some of the pictures from classrooms in schools around the world that are reopening. My children are long finished with school, but if I had children in elementary school, I don't know that I would send them back with the harsh restrictions that are (understandably) in place right now.

    Here in Ontario, we are still waiting to here what is happening with our current school year; on paper, we are scheduled to go back on May 31, with our last day of the year being on June 26. I can't imagine that will happen, but we need to wait for an announcement that is supposed to be coming next week.
     
  23. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 15, 2020

    My principal shared with us in a meeting today that the admin are looking into hats with face shields and plexiglass desk shields for all students next year.
     
    readingrules12 likes this.
  24. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,692
    Likes Received:
    1,647

    May 15, 2020

    One of the biggest challenges will be to teachers with the youngest children. They won't socially isolate, their hands go everywhere, probably won't keep masks or face shields on, etc.
     
    bella84 likes this.
  25. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588

    May 17, 2020

    That's all good and well but what about testing? Face masks? Who will pay for them? Temperature checks? How often will restrooms be disinfected? School buses? Where will students eat? How many will be on campus at one time? Will there be P.E.? If a staff member gets sick, will they have additional sick days to take? What about contact tracing? Who will head that? These questions aren't for you to answer, it's just questions that will have to be answered well before desk shields.
     
  26. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,895
    Likes Received:
    1,867

    May 17, 2020

    I’m sure they are thinking about all of that too. She just mentioned this as a brief comment, sort of in passing, as we were ending a meeting about something totally unrelated. She wasn’t actually briefing us on the plans. It was more of a “oh my goodness, you guys... next years we’re gonna have these hats with shields! Ahhh” kind of comment. There will most definitely be more too it, and we’ll learn about it when they have it worked out and ready to share.

    She did say that the purpose of the hats with shields is because they don’t think masks are feasible for us, though. So, possibly, no masks. We are a pre-k through second grade building.
     
  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    1,300

    May 17, 2020

    These are all wonderful ideas, except I doubt with the $54 billion loss in state revenue that school districts could afford providing Chromebooks for all the students... :(
     
  28. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    661

    May 17, 2020

    I am not sure about school policies where you are, but just think about how many are "skated around." Are you pushed to do things out of your contract time? Have you ever been forced to cut corners at work? I do not trust the schools to keep it safe.
     
    a2z, whizkid and readingrules12 like this.
  29. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    1,146

    May 17, 2020

    I agree. My principal agree said that in the year 21/22 we will have the funds to go 1:1 with Chromebooks. That's the first I've heard it. But we can't do it sooner and with possible funds cut, who knows what will happen.
     
  30. whizkid

    whizkid Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    588

    May 17, 2020

    And pushed to do things outside of regulated duties.
     
  31. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    744

    May 17, 2020

    My largest concern is that schools are going to open whether it is safe or not. There are child cares and pre-schools opening up on June 1 in areas in the country where the cases are at their highest levels yet. Hmm...are they doing this because they are so naive that is unsafe or are doing it because they need the money? If they will treat 2, 3, and 4 year olds, their parents, and pre-school teachers that way, I see it happening to us as well. I think there will be some unique places that will start with distance learning and say "it isn't safe". The rest aren't looking both ways before they cross the street.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. bella84,
  2. txmomteacher2,
  3. CaliforniaRPCV,
  4. MrsC,
  5. AllisonB,
  6. MzsB,
  7. miss-m
Total: 346 (members: 9, guests: 311, robots: 26)
test