WI teachers rally

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Rabbitt, Feb 16, 2011.

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  1. EMonkey

    EMonkey Connoisseur

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    Feb 22, 2011

    If the state of California was saying they were going to take away our bargaining rights I doubt the employees would just be laying down and taking it. Just because there have been lots of lay offs does not mean let them walk all over you. I don't know if I was going to loose my job anyway I think I would be fighting even harder. I would not trust that us not fighting would make me safe from being laid off, I would actually think the opposite.
     
  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 22, 2011

    Sometimes the end justifies the means. It just so happens that many teachers feel strongly about their career, their rights, and the priority of education in our state government. Protest isn't always neatly packaged. Civil disobedience.
     
  3. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Feb 22, 2011

    Griping about the teachers calling in sick to protest, calling it a lie, is downright unacceptable. It's like throwing out a Van Gogh simply because it's not in an elegant frame. The teachers do not have a right to strike--a right to say NO to an injustice and take their opposition to the public--and they're forced to lie to show their extreme displeasure at a bill that would basically take their only power in their voice. Without collective bargaining, there's no unity of force on the side of the teachers. They'll be left to the whim of the more powerful administration and politicians.

    Sometimes you have to recognize the context of an action before you wag your finger. We lie all the time in all sorts of situations and it's acceptable. Those who NEVER lie never recognize the pain they're giving. The teachers calling in sick to protest--they are lying. But it's an acceptable lie. In the end, if they succeed in winning their right to collectively bargain, they'll keep just one more unit of power on their side to fight not only for themselves but the students as well.

    What's also bad about this is that Wisconsin is broke because of Gov. Walker's mishandling of the budget. It's said that they're $137 million in the hole. But when he took office, he proposed and passed at $117 million tax cut.
     
  4. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Feb 23, 2011

    PTO=Paid Time Off. They don't have to give a reason, and the reason doesn't matter.

    So many people are mad about teachers calling in when they aren't sick. I agree...It isn't a good thing.
     
  5. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

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    Feb 23, 2011

    I'm sure Wisconsin teachers and students will make up the days the schools were shut...unless their legislature passes a law reducing the number of mandatory school days....(The idea of them doing that amuses me.)

    At any rate, I sincerely doubt teachers will be incensed about making up the days.

    And why would one have to lie about it? One simply states "I won't be in tomorrow." I wonder whether calling in "sick" is a media-driven idea.
     
  6. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Feb 23, 2011

    As in teacher layoffs? Yes, we have...Very many. Districts are laying off 30-50 teachers each year (not huge districts, either).

    The thing is, I keep reading article after article that says there isn't a "budget crisis" in Wisconsin. Walker is brainwashing people. He's a crazy college dropout with a 2.0 GPA.
     
  7. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Feb 23, 2011

    If this were fireman and policeman protesting, no one would care whether they called in sick or not....no one would criticize them for not being out there protecting citizens. They would, as I have always seen in the past, have the utmost support and respect of the public. But teachers are never allowed to stand up for their rights like others are.

    I say whatever. I'd be out there and not feel an ounce of guilt. If the public/politicians really cared about kids they would not have let it get to this point.

    Rock on WI teachers :thumb::thumb:
     
  8. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Feb 23, 2011

    It's called a "sickout." Workers who aren't allowed by law to call a strike will call in sick at the same time. It's a way of striking without breaking the law. Most public workers (police, fire fighters, teachers, air traffic controllers) are barred from striking.
     
  9. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    Feb 23, 2011

    I stand behind the WI teachers 100% The lastest development from the news reals here is that Scott Walker admitted in a taped phone call what his true intention are with all of this. I don't know how accurate this is, but it is what is being reported.
     
  10. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    Feb 23, 2011

    Coming from a teacher who will be attending the Texas rally - I can't help but think of the kids???????? Not sure I agree with handling it this way. Of course we are all entitled to our opinion. I know the deficit sucks (we have a $28 billion deficit). But those kiddos need to be in school. protesting/rallying is a commendable action - however I am a teacher. My job is to be there with my students for as long as I have them. I am attending our rally here because it's on Saturday.

    At one time I thought I'd like to be in a state with a strong union - but I wouldn't never want to HAVE to follow a crowd.

    I support the WI teachers as we are in the same situation, but poor kids..... Gosh, I wish this would work out for everyone involved.
     
  11. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    Feb 23, 2011

    but your decision to stay home 1 day didn't close the schools.:eek:
     
  12. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Feb 23, 2011

    The kids will be served by these protests just as much as the teachers. This isn't just about job safety or a paycheck, but the respect due to the teacher, and ultimately, to education itself. If no one stands up for teachers, no one ends up standing for education--just a shadow of education.
     
  13. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    Feb 23, 2011

    I get the point. Texas is facing a situation that is potentially MUCH worse. However, no one is considering NOT going to work to protest lay offs.

    I just believe messages can be sent and points made as to not affect children's school days. It appears that the teachers are sending a message that school is NOT important if they are willing to see thousands of school children sit home.......IMHO. But that probably is one difference between union and non-union states.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 23, 2011

    I really don't think that these teachers are sitting around NOT thinking about the needs of their students. I think that they're seeing the protesting as a way to provide the students in their state with the best education possible by the best teachers who are content at their jobs and compensated fairly.

    Rallying against the government is never pretty. I think we should all be glad that this situation in Wisconsin hasn't gone the way of Thomas Jefferson yet. I think we'd all agree that he was a pretty smart guy, and he said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. "
     
  15. Rabbitt

    Rabbitt Connoisseur

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    Feb 23, 2011

    Even though exempt from this bill, many fireman, emt, nurses and police have called in sick as well...but have not received the negative publicity teachers have. Shame on the media!

    To top it off, schools were closed after the Packers Super Bowl victory so that people could attend the welcome home parade and ceremonies. That didn't make State and National news!
    Again, shame!

    I think it is quite a teachable moment for most age levels.
     
  16. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Feb 23, 2011

    Whether it's right or wrong for teachers to be out of the classroom protesting, this act has caused many people to turn against the teachers (as I mentioned earlier). For that reason, I think it was all a bad idea. I have been arguing with many friends recently because they will ask me, "So, have you been skipping work, too?" and then we get into it. SO many people were supporting teachers until they started closing down schools. It's so frustrating...
     
  17. Hermes

    Hermes Rookie

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    Feb 23, 2011

    It is frustrating, but that's the result of the public allowing the assault on teachers and unions to continue. People will have the view that the workers striking only hurt the consumer (the kids or the public) and the strikers are greedy and self-centered. But they don't really understand what a union is and what it does and why workers have to group together to stand up for fair contracts and working conditions. You just have to educate them.

    Of course, there are always going to be some who will refuse to listen to any rational discussion. But you do what you can do.
     
  18. INteacher

    INteacher Aficionado

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    Feb 24, 2011

    Once again, this is NOT about lay-offs. In my state, this is about fundamentally changing educational, the way schools operate, the way the state can take away a teacher's license WITHOUT due process, schools that can operate with state funds with a majority of un-licensed teachers, not valuing teachers with higher education and on and on. We know there will be layoffs, we had layoff last year and the year before, this is about saving the profession I love from congressmen who want to run education like a business.

    My state has experienced the opposite - we have more teacher support from the public then ever before. So much so that a few congressmen have changed their votes, not based on teacher rallys, but as the congressmen themselves reported, reaction from their constituents support for public education.

    Again, in my state, this isn't so much about teachers as it is about the fate of public education.
     
  19. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    Feb 24, 2011

    This amazes me and makes me quite happy to have quit my union.

    We are PUBLIC employees folks. If the public votes into office someone who quite clearly ran on a platform of doing something and then we just take our ball and go home afterwards we do not look good. Of course, holding up signs calling the guy a Nazi sure helps though...

    The idea that this would kill public education is ludicrous. It is impossible for the government to take away my personal right to bargain. At any point I can quit my job. That's my bargain. It's the same bargain I'd have in the private sector.

    You cannot possibly believe that the public in any state would allow the end of public schooling. They want the day care we provide. The sky is not falling on us any more than on the rest of society and, in fact, far less. We own a political party. They don't. We'll be fine.
     
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 24, 2011


    I don't think it's accurate to say that the public is turning against teachers. In fact, every poll I've seen in the news lately has shown that a majority of Americans favor collective bargaining and would not support its removal in their home states.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm
     
  21. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    Feb 24, 2011

    that is my viewpoint as a teacher myself - protesting and rallying are great and I totally support that. However, I do NOT support teachers being the cause of schools closing - totally NOT cool!!!!!
     
  22. scooter503

    scooter503 Comrade

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    Feb 24, 2011

    As another teacher in WI, I can verify that teachers are NOT regarded highly in this state (at least in the area around me - small town WI). That was true well before this issue/the rallies/school closings happened. It is so frustrating to me. I'm worried about what this bill will mean for the quality of future education in my state. So many teachers I know are fearing that they won't be able to afford to continue in this profession.

    But for most of us, it's not even about the changes to pension/health insurance (though I will admit that it's going to hurt my family). If the bill passes, we've been told we will lose the ability to bargain for prep time, hours, pay for extra duties (for example, we may be required to chaperone after-school events for no extra pay). We may be required to teach all day with no prep time. Those things are scary to me. Plus, we might lose our step/scale pay scale. I'm sick of being told that teachers are greedy and expect too much.
     
  23. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    Feb 24, 2011

    This is true. I am not in WI but in another midwestern state and the biggest issues in our contract negotiations at negiation time is almost always prep time and like and nothing to do with salary.
     
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