Why another AP?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mami1Maestra2, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Mami1Maestra2

    Mami1Maestra2 Rookie

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    Aug 18, 2019

    So our school enrollment is down. The number of para's for Kindergarten has been cut, but we have a new AP. That makes 5 AP's and 1 principal for a student body of about 1300, and that's actually quite a bit lower than projected. What gives? Anyone have any ideas why a school would get an additional AP when we've always had 4 AP's? Just curious...
     
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  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Aug 18, 2019

    This seems highly bizarre to me. My school has a population of ~2,750 students, on average, and we only have 1 principal and 3 vice principals. I mean, sure, we have other admin like me (Dean for Academic Affairs) and the Dean of Students, but that’s it. Hiring a fourth VP at my school would be unnecessary, IMO. We get along and manage just fine.
     
  4. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I think every district has more administrators than needed.
     
  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Aug 18, 2019

    Yep.
     
  6. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Comrade

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    At 1 time, I worked at a school with about 1800 kids. We had a P and 4 VP's. The VP's were often used for discipline and evaluating teachers. Does your school have a high amount of discipline problems? 5 VP's sounds pretty top heavy to me too. It is sad how they cut the teachers/aides who work with kids like that and added someone who probably will not be much help to the kids.
     
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  7. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Mine actually could use more, believe it or not.
     
  8. maltidevi

    maltidevi New Member

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    Aug 19, 2019

    Yaaa
     
  9. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Aug 19, 2019

    Probably another school lost an AP position. They had to place them somewhere, so they came to you.
     
  10. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Could be someone is planning to leave, so they hired in anticipation of that.
     
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  11. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    Aug 19, 2019

    How does the organizational tree work with VPs and deans? Do the deans report to the VPs, do the VPs report to the deans, or do all report to the principal?
     
  12. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Good question! Yes, deans will report to VP’s and then VP’s report to the principal. The principal answers to the school board and CEO.
     
  13. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    In public schools, principals generally report to the assistant sup and/or superintendent.
     
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  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Good to know! I guess our CEO would be the equivalent of a superintendent as a super is the “CEO” of a school district. Our CEO answers to the board members only.
     
  15. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    Aug 22, 2019

    My old school has 1 principal and 2 VPs for about 600 students and it was the right amount. They were always busy with handling behavior, parent meetings, etc. and I think any less admin would not be enough.

    I did feel like there were a few jobs that were not necessary. For example, there was a math and ELA coach at every school. I’m not sure what the ELA coach did, but the math coach ran some of our meetings and sometimes shared lessons with us. But she never ran any coaching cycles or anything. She often had meetings during the day and could never come in to my class when I needed support. I know she spent time analyzing our testing data but we had no curriculum so I wasn’t sure how this was really impacting my instruction. I think she modeled a lesson for me once and observed 2-3 times. My mentor gave me much better direction in terms of lesson planning and classroom management. Considering how large my classes were (and the classes of some of my coworkers), I think the kids might have been better served by a few good paras. Then again, I’m not sure if our coach supported other teachers a bit differently.
     
  16. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Aug 23, 2019

    Just my thoughts, but there seems to be an increased need for the required teacher observations that are required by codes to make sure that teachers are actually in line with the curriculum and student growth expectations. It is just something I have observed over the last few years, especially as schools have adopted Danielson as their model.
     
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  17. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    That is a very good point. We have almost 1800 students, and one P, three APs, and an additional admin. I would not be surprised if we don't get another AP as our faculty is growing and our current admin will be extremely pressured for time.
     
  18. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    Aug 23, 2019

    I watched one of my department heads learn the "correct way" to conduct an observation according to Danielson, and trust me when I say it was a daunting task. We had admin in our classes almost daily, not to do observations on the teachers, but to get all of the admin on the same page during an observation, learning how to observe without judging, writing a running dialogue of everything that was being said, by everyone in the room. It took a full year to transition to this style of observation, and the time demands on admin were greatly increased. This was about 8 years ago, and I remember the increase in AP's on staff during that time frame. My current school almost doubled admin numbers as they went with the Danielson model, and it was almost exclusively due to the number of observations, the manner of the observations, the meetings about the observations, not only with the observed, but among themselves. I'm not making excuses for anyone, only mentioning my own experiences and observations (no pun intended).

    A side effect is that there are fewer admin available for help with discipline, even though their numbers have gone up. There has been some grumbling among teachers that the admin are so busy doing one job that they don't have time to do the rest of their jobs, which has always been to be a teacher support system. I'm neutral, but thought I would share experiences I've had.
     
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