When you send a student out....THEN what??

Discussion in 'Behavior Management' started by TangoTeacher, Sep 15, 2007.

  1. TangoTeacher

    TangoTeacher Rookie

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    Sep 15, 2007

    I'm so green, it really is becoming embarassing!

    I have a student who is becoming quite the behavior problem. I have found two teachers in nearby rooms who are willing to let her come to do work in their rooms as a consequence for not working in mine. (I am teaching fifth grade; these teachers teach 3rd.)

    Sending her out in the hall is not possible - there isn't anyone to be with her, and she MUST be supervised.

    So - when I send her, what do I send her to DO? For instance,if it's the middle of a math lesson, she doesn't have the information she needs yet to do the practice problems. And then how do I catch her up? If she claims she is finished with all her work, I really don't have the time to go through her stuff to find out.

    Bottom line - and it sounds like a dumb question: What do I give this girl to DO? The other teachers want her to work - and I don't want to "reward" her by letting her do nothing. And a follow-up - how long does she stay there?

    These are the unwritten rules that I can't seem to figure out on my own....:help:
     
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  3. Teacher2Be2007

    Teacher2Be2007 Companion

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    Sep 15, 2007

    My mentor teacher has a packet of worksheets for kids to work on when they need to be sent out of the room. Lots of them. :)
     
  4. Yank7

    Yank7 Habitué

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    Sep 15, 2007

    It is important that you send the child out with plenty of work to do.REview math sheets, reading questions,writing projects,assignments on proper behavior in certain situations might be nice.Be careful this is not a pleasant or fun experience for the child as she may act may act up just to get out of working in your classroom.Is it possible to send her out when the class is doing a fun activity. This might get her to want to behave better to be able to participate in these activities.
     
  5. synapse

    synapse Comrade

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    Sep 15, 2007

    I disagree with the idea that the work should not be pleasant of fun...with this caveat...the general tone of your classroom should be pleasant and fun. The idea ought to be to get our students interested in learning. So, why would we want to give them work...any work...that is not interesting and engaging?

    When a student needs to be sent from your class (particularly a class that is interesting and engaging), you may not need to have them be excluded for very long to achieve the desired effect.

    Try a short exclusionary period, with a small amount of work that is on topic and engaging. The get the student back to your class and engaged as soon as you can.

    A student that gains a sense of belonging will not want to excluded often, or for very long.
     
  6. tchecse

    tchecse Companion

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    Sep 16, 2007

    My thoughts exactly! I would also encourage you to look at why she is acting up? Is it the same time every day? same subject or same types of activities that send her off (reading aloud versus writing, for example)? Does she have learning difficulties? If any of these questions can be answered "yes", then it is extremely likely that she is acting up in order to get sent out of the room because she is able to avoid what is difficult for her. Even if you initially think this is not the case, make up a data sheet and write down each outburst, the time, what preceeded the outburst, and the result (getting sent out, losing her turn, etc). After a week or so of this, a pattern should emerge and this should give you a clue as to the reason WHY she is acting out.
     
  7. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Sep 16, 2007

    First let me preface this by saying I love my students past and present. I bust my tail end to help them succeed. I don't think there is anything wrong with punish work. If the child is disturbing class enough to be removed that shouldn't be rewarded with fun work. I have a collection of work that I keep for in school suspension. It's math pages, words to define, etc. That said, I don't use it often. I don't want a child to think that they have the upper hand by my forcing them out of the room so their behavior has to be extreme before I send them out. I do have kids who come to my room from time to time from other classes. They sit at the back table and work. They aren't allowed to talk, they aren't allowed to go look at the animals (big draw in my room), etc. I'm not mean to them, but I'm firm.
     
  8. synapse

    synapse Comrade

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    Sep 16, 2007


    The problem is that students associate the punishment with the work. When one is in the business of trying to get students to value learning, it seems that using learning tools to punish bad behavior is counterproductive.

    A better strategy would be to identify and use logical consequences.
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Sep 16, 2007

    You could send the student out with the assignment to write a letter to you or to her parents outlining her inappropriate behaviors, discussing why they are inappropriate, and coming up with ideas for making better choices. For the things she misses during class whenever she's sent out, she has to come in before school or after school (if that's not an inconvenience to you).

    What is the next step in your discipline plan? It seems like the time-outs aren't working, so maybe she needs to move on up to a referral to the principal or dean.

    Furthermore, what are her behaviors? Is she being belligerent, insubordinate, defiant, or oppositional? Is she disrupting her peers or you to the point where other kids can't learn and/or you can't teach? I guess I just want to make sure that you're not sending her out or minor infractions... and if they habitually are major infractions, she needs to have a more serious consequence than a time-out room.
     
  10. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Sep 16, 2007

    I understand your point but there's a huge difference between having a child work dozens of pages and work assigned while the child is in inhouse suspension. The work that is assigned there is tied to what we are covering in the classroom. Actually, in my parish, a child who is suspended (in house or at home) is supposed to get zeroes for everything for the day). I choose not to have them lose the lesson.
    If you can get a child to really talk to you about what the problem is, then you can help, but sometimes you are not going to get to that child. Personally I don't think we are doing kids a service by not punishing them. I really think they have got to learn their actions have consequences and those aren't always happy. I'm not talking about going overboard, I'm talking about being reasonable.
    I hate to say it, but we (in the education field) are tieing our own hands. We can't spank, we can't take away recess, we can't sit them in a corner, we can't give punish work, what deterrants are left? Yes, I would love to be able to sit with each child one on one and discuss everything with them. I have 22 kids this year (and that's less than many other 5th graders.) How do I provide each child with that one on one? I have a 13 year old, a 12 year old, 4 repeaters, 2 who are on ADHD meds, one who they think is autistic, and the list could go on and on. That's 22 kids who need me. When I have one who won't listen, won't work, who cusses me and the other kids, who lies to his mother, who hits others, what do you suggest I do with him? (And no, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm honestly trying to ask a question.)

     
  11. synapse

    synapse Comrade

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    Sep 17, 2007

    I don't see it as an argument. This is a discussion forum, no?

    It depends on how you define your position in relation to your students.

    It also depends on how you define the term "punishment."

    It further depends on how you see/define misbehavior.

    I perfer to see misbehavior as an insight into my students and an opportunity to teach them how to behave correctly. In order to teach them how to behave correctly, I use as many logical conseqence as possible. I combine this with a structure and instruction that reduces, to the greatest extent possible, misbehavior.

    I am not saying that there should be no consequences for poor choices. But I have never seen a place for punitive/humiliating consequences like spanking, sitting in a corner, and busy-work that is strictly seen as punishment.

    As for the variety of learning and social needs that you face in your class of 22...that sounds pretty typical. This job of ours in not easy.
     
  12. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Sep 17, 2007

    Very good advice, Synapse, in my opinion. Also, to the op, please take the following information as said to hopefully enlighten, not criticize in the least. I don't know what the child is doing and I am definitely not going to criticize, we all know how difficult it can be sometimes. In my experience, sending a child out does not work and it just increases the behavior when they do return and delays working out the problems. If the child is looking for control and trying to get out of work, you are giving it to her, so try not to do it. Also, it may even contribute to the problem because it tells the child that you cannot handle them and they may despair of ever being understood and shown different ways to behave. All children need boundaries, they feel more secure that way. Though some may act like they want to be in control, they really don't and by misbehaving they are pushing for you to set their boundaries. And what synapse said is true, if the students are engaged and feel belonging, the behavior will become less and less frequent because they'll want to be with the rest of the class, not missing out. In most cases that's true, there are a very, very few children who have deeper issues that will need more intervention to help to resolve.
    Most of all, you said you are a new teacher so go easy on yourself, it's an incredibly difficult job at times. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2007
  13. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Sep 17, 2007

    I wasn't trying to say my situation was unique. Actually I commented that I knew my numbers were smaller than many other 5th graders. My point was that there isn't always a time to get that one on one with a child to get to the bottom of their behavior. Sometimes you have to remove them from the situation until you can address their behavior. In the mean time there needs to be something for them to do. They aren't getting a vacation from the room and that needs to be clear. Where ever they are being removed to may not have someone who is able to watch them every second. We have been instructed to have work ready for inhouse or for a child being pulled from the room. The word "punishment" has caused debate on here before. I don't see my role as a prison guard, but I do see my responsiblity including helping them learn to be prepared for life. In the real world when you don't do what you are supposed to there are consequences. Those consequences range from the extreme (jail time, ticket, etc) to simply losing the chance to do something fun (fail to buy tickets for a concert in time, etc). I see behavior in the classroom following that same line. Sometimes the consequences aren't fun, but they are called for. That's what I meant when I listed all the consequences students used to have. Our hands are being tied on creating consequences for students. Everyone that anyone comes up with seems to have drawbacks for others.
    And yes, I know this is a message board for debate and I'm fine with debating, I was simply stating up front that my intentions weren't to start an argument. :)

     
  14. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Sep 17, 2007

    Very true.
     
  15. TangoTeacher

    TangoTeacher Rookie

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    Sep 17, 2007

    Well, my hands are pretty much tied to what the staff at the school wants to do - this girl has quite a history, and was well on her way to a district intervention last year. This year, her behavior is somewhat accelerated. Today she argued with the principal after being caught (BY the principal) wearing banned Heelies on the school stairs after school. (Inside, not outside.) She cannot handle being corrected, or re-directed. Instead she argues, refutes, talks back, and makes insulting remarks about other students.

    I THINK her main desire is to impress her audience - her peers. The longer she stays in the room arguing or refusing to do something, the longer she has a captive audience. That is the reason I am being advised to send her to another class (NOT a peer group, but younger students). She will be out of her comfort zone, and will not have her buddies around her.

    I just don't know what to do about the work she will not be getting done because she is missing the lessons.
     
  16. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Sep 17, 2007

    You may have to send the work with her to the other room or have her do it for homework. You should ask the principal to see if there is a limit on what you can send. Good luck!!
     

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