When the bully has an IEP...

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Backroads, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,378
    Likes Received:
    1,723

    Aug 1, 2017

    A gal in my neighborhood has a kid who is dreading the upcoming school year. She has had a bully for about one and a half years now and the claim is some things have gotten ugly. Unfortunately, from what Mom knows, the kid has some special needs and very likely upon an IEP. She says she has gone to the principal on behalf of her daughter, but has been told because of the kid's unique circumstances, there's really not a whole lot they can do without delving into murky legal territory. (Note this is all third-hand information to me.)

    Anywho, she wanted my advice as an educator. My suggestion was to teach the daughter some defense (not physical) skills and keep bugging administration as my awareness is IDEA can come back to bite them if an IEP kid is NOT appropriately disciplined for bad behavior. Thought I'd come here for further ideas.
     
  2.  
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 1, 2017

    Do you know anything about the specific nature of the bullying? Is it something that could warrant police involvement?
     
  4. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,378
    Likes Received:
    1,723

    Aug 1, 2017

    There's been hitting and some sexual threats. These are 6th graders, by the way.
     
  5. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 1, 2017

    If it were me, and if I felt that school wasn't doing enough, I would involve the police. No one, especially a child, should be forced to endure sexually threatening behavior. Physical battery is not acceptable.

    I would also proceed up along the chain of command. IDEA or not, there's no reason that the school can't protect this child from a bully. Perhaps the bully won't be disciplined, and ultimately that's beyond the control of the parent in this situation, but the school can make every effort to keep these two children separated and well-supervised.
     
    bella84, otterpop, AmyMyNamey and 2 others like this.
  6. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,533
    Likes Received:
    1,446

    Aug 1, 2017

    I agree. No child should be bullied and the parent needs to protect the child if the school won't. The parent should keep on marching up the stairs until they find someone willing to do something about the bully. IEP or no IEP, no child should be allowed to become a bully. There are ways to give consequences to children with IEP's. Perhaps a suspension of several days will wake up the parents.
     
    Backroads and a2z like this.
  7. janlee

    janlee Devotee

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    9

    Aug 1, 2017

    Google Rockaway, NJ and read about Mallory. Such a sad story.
     
  8. Rabbitt

    Rabbitt Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    105

    Aug 1, 2017

    Absolutely involve the police!
     
    Backroads likes this.
  9. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    318

    Aug 1, 2017

    They are using the IEP as an excuse not to do their job.

    I will say that if another kid made a sexual threat against my child, that kid would get cuffed and stuffed. No doubt about it. You don't wait for flaccid administrators to do their job when your child is threatened.

    Take the sexual threats to the police and file a report. Have him arrested the next time it happens.
     
    2ndTimeAround and Backroads like this.
  10. ready2learn

    ready2learn Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    65

    Aug 1, 2017

    Sad, but that is a tough spot the parent is in. Good job for telling her to keep on admin. Too many administrators take the "don't get sued" stance on working with students. Not saying that they want to get into a lawsuit, but often this philosophy is far from what is best for the students.
     
    2ndTimeAround, Backroads and a2z like this.
  11. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,950
    Likes Received:
    2,105

    Aug 2, 2017

    This story is incredibly sad. NJ is on the forefront of HIB lesgislation and mandates for public schools and yet this sweet girl's situation fell through the cracks.
     
  12. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,352
    Likes Received:
    2,557

    Aug 2, 2017

    This is one of those times when I can say that being in an all SPED population school has perks. Since everyone is classified, we enforce HIB without any real concern for someone playing the IEP card. Because we deal with HS, there has to be very real concern that actions have consequences outside of our school. Parents become involved, aggression may invite assault investigations and possibly charges, and the list goes on. Any school that fails to protect and then uses the IEP as a "get out of jail free" card is not doing those students any favor. When they cross the line and the police become involved, that IEP will carry virtually no weight. I personally favor parents being strong advocates for any child they feel is being bullied. We wouldn't hesitate to call the authorities if we suspected parental abuse, so why should we look the other way when it is still abuse, but at the hands of a classmate?
     
    2ndTimeAround and Backroads like this.
  13. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,815
    Likes Received:
    1,745

    Aug 2, 2017

    My advice would be to have the mother document in writing what is being done to her daughter by the named child. I would specifically ask what the school will be doing to protect her daughter from the harassment and bullying of said child. I would also document that the continued bullying is putting emotional stress on her child that is making her frightened to attend school and making school a hostile learning environment. I would also mention that emotional stress impacts learning so by not addressing the issue they are choosing to impact the education of her child.

    Put this in writing. Send it via mail that requires a signature and official delivery notice. Send it via e-mail with CCs so that she has a copy. Print out the document and save all.

    This puts the principal on notice that there may be legal issues either way because the mother knows the rights of her child to have a safe environment and it is now documented that there is an on-going issue. She may even want to address the number of times she has brought this up to the teacher and principal.

    Fastest way to get it fixed now is to show harm to her child and written notification that you know the laws. If she gets nowhere it should then be sent to the Superintendent with a letter asking what is going to be done to protect her child.

    An IEP does not mean that a child can bully another. IEP services can be amended. Student LRE can be changed. Students on IEPs can be suspended for up to 10 school days without having to have a manifestation determination. An IEP is not a license to do anything. There is probably a lot behind the scenes contributing to this issue. It is possible that the mother has been asking for more services for a long time and suspending the child will give her the needed leverage to win a lawsuit or get the services. That is just a guess based on the information that addressing the bully may cause a lawsuit.
     
    2ndTimeAround, Backroads and vickilyn like this.
  14. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    571

    Aug 2, 2017

    Unfortunately this has happened way too many times at my schools. The system does hide behind IEPs and parents don't know enough to fight for their child's rights. We have an issue right now where a particular student is running the school. His ODD and psychiatric diagnosis makes it hard for the school to discipline him.

    I'll share this story again - we had a student a few years ago that is autistic. His caseworker stated he was "barely" on the spectrum. Because autism usually means students don't quite get social cues, his behavior was excused often. He really liked the girls even though they didn't care for him much. He would sexually harass classmates and total strangers. He fixated on one particular girl for a little while and nothing the involved adults tried would keep him from bothering the girl. It always came back to him not being fully aware of right or wrong and not being able to stifle his sexual urges. Until a group of teen boys decided to handle it for the girl. They got pretty physical with him. Nothing that an ice pack, ibuprofen and some band aids wouldn't handle. But enough for him to get a message.

    Now I can't condone violence. But it was AMAZING how all of a sudden all of his handicaps melted away after that confrontation. He somehow was able to be respectful to girls/women for the rest of the school year.
     
    AmyMyNamey likes this.
  15. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,684
    Likes Received:
    457

    Aug 2, 2017

    OP, I feel for your friends. I had a situation last year, where one of my students, who had an IEP, bullied some classmates, and pretty much nothing was done. It wasn't for lack of trying, but situations can get out of hand when the parents won't agree to changes of LRE or the IEP. In my situation, it was definitely at the point where the school's hands were tied. I don't know if anything would have changed if the bullied child's parents had spoken up more, but considering these issues had been ongoing for years (the bully's target changed yearly), I don't think it would have.
     
  16. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,815
    Likes Received:
    1,745

    Aug 2, 2017

    There are times it is necessary for a district to take a family to court to get an IEP change. If the student is harassing and/or violent and the IEP needs to be changed but a parent won't budge, it is time for the school to use its due process.
     
  17. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    571

    Aug 2, 2017

    Educate me here... I thought IEP development and changes were a TEAM decision. Why does a parent have to agree with the team for a change?
     
  18. kellzy

    kellzy Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    92

    Aug 2, 2017

    It's murky territory to not do anything. IEPs are not free passes to do whatever you want, even behavior IEPs.
     
  19. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,352
    Likes Received:
    2,557

    Aug 2, 2017

    When parents and team are agreed, all is well. If the CST feels differently about what needs to be done, and parents won't agree, no parental signatures will be forthcoming. At this impasse, if team feels strongly about their case, and has strong documentation supporting it, due process is the recourse, meaning going to court. It's expensive, and seen as confrontational, so many schools try not to go there.

    It's far more common for parents to initiate due process to force the team to do what the team doesn't deem necessary.
     
    agdamity likes this.
  20. DAH

    DAH Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    66

    Aug 2, 2017

    [QUOTE="2ndTimeAround,... Until a group of teen boys decided to handle it for the girl. [/QUOTE]

    I'm not 100% for handling things this way, but what he got was a SPANKING.
    Something his parents may not have ever done.
     
  21. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,352
    Likes Received:
    2,557

    Aug 2, 2017

    [/QUOTE] I'm not 100% for handling things this way, but what he got was a SPANKING.
    Something his parents may not have ever done. [/QUOTE]

    Not in favor of the group taking the law into their own hands. This is something that could have landed the assailants in juvenile detention, so not advocating that line of action. In this case it "seems" like it worked, but mob justice is highly likely not to be justice at all. That's why you don't want the law to be administered by mobs instead of judicial systems.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  22. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,815
    Likes Received:
    1,745

    Aug 2, 2017

    Everyone on the team must agree. That is the law. The TEAM includes the parent or the student, if the student is of age and capable.

    The TEAM must come to consensus, not a majority vote. Otherwise, the parent/student would really have no rights whatsoever because the school has many more representatives on the team

    The public agency must ensure that the IEP Team for each child with a disability includes:

    • The parents of the child;
    • Not less than one regular education teacher of the child (if the child is, or may be, participating in the regular education environment);
    • Not less than one special education teacher of the child, or where appropriate, not less than one special education provider of the child;
    • A representative of the public agency (who has certain specific knowledge and qualifications);
    • An individual who can interpret the instructional implications of evaluation results and who may also be one of the other listed members;
    • At the discretion of the parent or the agency, other individuals who have knowledge or special expertise regarding the child, including related services personnel as appropriate; and
    • Whenever appropriate, the child with a disability.

    In accordance with 34 CFR 300.321(a)(7), the public agency must invite a child with a disability to attend the child’s IEP Team meeting if a purpose of the meeting will be the consideration of the postsecondary goals for the child and the transition services needed to assist the child in reaching those goals under 34 CFR 300.320(b).
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    2ndTimeAround likes this.
  23. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,815
    Likes Received:
    1,745

    Aug 2, 2017

    You mean the rest of the team. The parent is part of the team.
     
  24. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,352
    Likes Received:
    2,557

    Aug 2, 2017

    Yes, when the parents are not in agreement with the rest of the team.
     
  25. DAH

    DAH Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    66

    Aug 2, 2017

    TAKE IT TO HIS PARENTS!
    If the school isn't going to handle it, then you need a Plan B---SHOW UP at his front door, introduce yourself, and sit down with his parents (and hopefully the bully too) and discuss it.

    I actually had a similar situation with my oldest daughter when she was in elementary school (no sexual threats), and because he couldn't be stopped, I showed-up and put my long, pointed finger in his face and told him, basically, "You need to leave my daughter alone!" He stopped. She never had another problem with him (or at least she never complained about it again).

    Sometimes all a bully needs to know is that he ain't the only one who can throw their weight around.
     
  26. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,815
    Likes Received:
    1,745

    Aug 2, 2017

    Do not do this. Ever. This isn't a neighborhood squabble. While it may be fine sometimes, it is a recipe for disaster in today's society. The mom or dad of the girl might be a hot head or the family might have some hot heads. Suggesting the mom do this is not a good thing.
     
    bella84 likes this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. mrsf70,
  2. Tacy,
  3. Kelster95
Total: 412 (members: 4, guests: 392, robots: 16)
test