When a student says things like this, how do you respond?

I'm not reading that the OP's student said either.

 

What criteria did you have to meet for yours to warrant respect?

 

I'm referring to the people who wondered why the LBGTQ week needed to happen. It is meant to support equality for those students.

 

The only problem with targeting a certain ethnic background for 'being a terrorist' is that it won't work. First of all Islam is a religion and it isn't specific to Middle Easterners. There are lots of Muslims in Indonesia, in Africa, and pretty much all over the world. There are Muslims who are blonde! So while it's true that an 80 year old grandma with her 4 year old is probably not a terrorist, where do we draw a line? So it is better to have uniform policies and search everyone, that way it's all fair.

A lot of students (and adults) are not informed well enough about this and they put Muslim + terrorism + Middle Easterns together, which is wrong, morally and factually.

 

I don't say this to be mean, but I believe you have a way of giving these sort of conversations a very hostile feeling. Maybe that's what you're going for, but if not then I thought you might like to know.

 

A bit off topic, but I think a line could be drawn on some 80 year old grandmas and 4 year old children... Israel seems to do a good job not 'searching everyone'. It's not about what's 'fair' when it comes to airline security. :sorry:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/forget_the_porn_machines_NQAJ5DOzf187gdRQnLURlO

 

IMO a far better way to go would be for private businesses (which airlines are) to provide their own security. Then there would be no controversy. Don't like United's security? Fly AA.
(Sorry for going off-topic)

 

I'm definitely not trying to argue here, but drawing the line, which one of these should they not search?
- 70 year old male
- 60 year old female with little kid
- 50 year old male with female and 2 kids
- 30 year old female who 'seems' 6 months pregnant
- 20 year old male with a baby
- 18 year old female with a baby

and I'm not even bringing in ethnicity.

 

My original references to the elderly woman and the four year old child were based on actual incidents. Not sure if you read the article I cited, or if you know anyone who works in counterterrorism, but there are better ways to provide security besides searching everyone....
Regardless, my point was that perhaps the OP's student was trying to make a similar point and not intending to label another student's ethnic group as terrorists.

 

I know you can't empathize, but try to see it from my side. I'm frustrated and jaded because people choose to not see things realistically.

 

"Realistically" is yet ANOTHER way for you to say, "My opinion is the only opinion an intelligent person could ever have." But it's not.

 

Whatever. I'm done.

 

I don't really know many people who would cry separation of church and state because of a simple discussion of religion. Especially since social learning is crucial to many student's education.

But I agree that depending on the type of discussion and the direction some discussions of these types of topics might take, there may be parents who overreact or immediately assume the wrong thing.

That doesn't mean that these discussions shouldn't take place.

What type of religious discussions did you have in mind that might cause someone to react this way?

 

I understand your point.

But my problem is that I don't think a Muslim student would feel safe in the classroom hearing that sort of comment.

 

I was speaking more hypothetically than from personal experience since religion very rarely comes up in math class, but I do find myself feeling that I have to refrain from certain comments or responses I would normally make because it reflects my Christian beliefs and some student (or their parent) may be offended by that.

As for the separation of church and state, I read an account several years ago of a Principal telling a student he was not allowed to bring a Bible to school and read it during lunch or other breaks. The student wasn't reading out loud, only to himself, but the P still tried to confiscate the Bible and tell the child he could NOT bring a Bible to school to read. Needless to say, the school board ended up being involved and the principal was forced to back off the position.

I also have a good friend who is atheist. He complained bitterly that, DESPITE the best efforts of he and his mate to keep her daughters from hearing anything about Jesus, they still heard about Him from classmates at school. My friend is very intelligent and pol sci major, but he seriously felt that his step-daughters hearing about Jesus at school from classmates violated "separation of church and state".

So those are some of the examples I was thinking of. Have I ever been told "You can't say anything about your Christian beliefs while teaching in school?" No, I haven't. In fact, my first school was in a close-knit community where most of the families WERE Christians. Church attendance was so much a part of the community that we generally did not assign homework on Wednesday nights.

Again, I'm not saying my beliefs are being persecuted. I believe the original comment was addressing the fact that - generally speaking - teachers are NOT allowed to discuss religious beliefs in the classroom, yet an issue that, like it or not, IS tied directly to the religious beliefs of many (Muslims as well as Christians) is mandated as a topic of discussion.

I DO understand the need to promote tolerance and understanding of LGBT to prevent bullying in school, but I agree with others that this could be covered in discussion based more on bullying ALL groups rather than setting aside a specific discussion for bullying towards one group.

 

You want people to see things from your side, but you don't want to have to see things from anyone else's side (unless they already agree with your side). To paraphrase your earlier statement, that isn't the way it works.

 

^^^
I respectfully disagree that having an LGBT bullying awareness week isn't beneficial. I understand that the issue of LGBT rights is tied to religion, but no religion states that the LGBT population should be bullied.

LGBT bullying is a huge problem in my school, as shown by the survey results and the words I hear in the hallways everyday. I think it's great that my school (well, it is certain students and teachers that organize it, but still) dedicates a week to the bullying of LGBT students. Grouping it with other forms of bullying just doesn't have the same effect and show the same support to these students.

 

I have to make sure not to mention my boyfriend who has been a big part of my life for a long time just because I don't want parents to think that I'm influencing their students towards either side of LGBT issues. I can't even really mention a huge part of my past or my issues with my family because it might give clues. I accept this as part of the job. I'm here to help students come to their own conclusions of things by critically thinking about both sides of every issue, rather than injecting my own. Because of the powerful position we have as teachers, we are very influential in our students lives.

I've heard about that principal as well, and I think it is one of the most cited examples that religion is becoming more and more unwelcome in education. The thing is, is that P was forced to back down, as were others who made similar mistakes. I don't think this is a predominant view in education and not proof that Christians are being persecuted in schools nationwide (I know you said you don't see your beliefs as being persecuted, but some see it this way) and is more about individual cases of administrators and educators who have made bad choices.

I just don't agree with the statement that teachers are not allowed to discuss religious beliefs in school. There may be isolated incidences that have occurred, but I think by and large, schools tend to be open to religious discussion in the areas that people tend to think that religion is kept under wraps.

I also believe using specific groups as an example, especially ones whose issues are very contemporary really helps to drive the anti-bullying point home, so I think focusing on GLBT groups or Islamic discrimination can be very helpful.

 

I actually agree with you, for the most part, Peregrin. While I think there is some restrictions on discussion (or sometimes even the mention) of religion in school, I certainly don't feel Christianity is being openly persecuted. There are anectdotal examples, such as the ones mentioned, which serves to keep the discussion going though.

Going back to the original comment, I understand what the poster was talking about and I think many others do as well. While there may still be discussions or conversational examples of religion brought up in school, it isn't done as freely as it used to be. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but I think it is somewhat short-sighted to claim the situation doesn't exist at all.

 

Well it's just my guess, but I think that religion is still brought up as a core part of the curriculum for many social studies classes and perhaps what people are seeing as restrictions on freedom of speech regarding religion may just be a different broader view of religion as a whole rather than a focus on a specific religion.

For instance, I believe that schools are doing their best to keep from promoting a single religion (i.e. Christianity) and since Christianity has enjoyed being at the forefront of essentially every discussion about religion and morals, and has been the predominant and overarching religion in our nation for more than 200 years, any reduction of its significance in schools and other places is causing key members of that religion to panic because of their weakening hold on these members of society.

This is simply my opinion though based on my experiences of growing up in quite a few Christian denominational churches and experiencing first hand the thought processes of my parents (both of whom are devout Christians and one who is a Southern Baptist pastor). I think we all just need to get used to the fact that there are (now) going to be many different religions, lifestyles, and races living together, and expect to compromise by giving a little, especially those who have owned so much for so long.

 

It has been my experience that schools do cover religions in World History classes. However, they do very little in teaching about Christianity but will spend a lot of time covering Islam, for example. Unless the entire class is Christian, students are left without adequate instruction regarding all of the world religions and the place they have in history. Anyone who is not Christian will learn about all religions except Christianity which will only be glossed over.

In my opinion, that is why Christians are up in arms about the idea that other religions are now taught because Christianity is not given equal billing. Coming from a very diverse area, there are many students with religions other than Christianity and many that practice no religion that are then denied equal instruction about Christianity.

This practice starts in K where many religions are discussed (of course around Christmas time) except when Christianity is discussed the example is Christmas Day and santa, Christmas trees (as in oooo pretty), snowmen, snowflakes, and reindeer. Christ is never mentioned.

 

I do remember talking about Islam in school and the five pillars, etc. but I also remember talking about the Hebrews in Israel, the Torah, Christianity in the Roman era, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Puritans moving to the New World, missionaries from Spain colonizing the West.

I learned about Puritanism in the Scarlet Letter and Christian issues are explored in countless other books that were required reading. I learned about the Catholic Church's role in the Copernicus debate.

So I beg to differ. I think we spend more time learning about Christianity than we do any other religion.

 

I expect we came from different states, and I know now that we are currently in different states. That could be the difference in what was taught. I did say in my experience expecting that it may only apply to the district I attended school in growing up and the districts I have experience in now.

I do want to point out that learning about the 5 Pillars of Islam and other parts of the Islamic religion would be like learning the 10 Commandments in Judism/Christianity or learning about the Holy Trinity or the crucifiction of Christ. Did they teach that alongside of the Pillars of Islam? Our public schools never did, nor do they now. Now they do teach about the basics of the Islamic religion, but not the basics of Christianity.

 

I agree. In my school, I don't think the students learn about any religion besides Christianity. And as a student, I didn't learn about any religion besides Christianity until college.

 

So I talked to the assistant principal today and he was concerned with the student's comments. He said that they would consider the topics we discuss if the discussions didn't feel "safe." (And we don't have topics like this most weeks--sometimes we have nothing to talk about, sometimes we talk about stress/homework/planning, sometimes we have administrative duties to attend to.) He said that this student does have a right to his opinions and thought I handled both situations well enough, but if more problems arise, then I should contact him immediately.

Also, thanks everyone for the comments! It was interesting to hear different perspectives on this issue.

 

I'm glad to hear your P supports how you've handled the issue. You were in a tough spot! Kudos for keeping your cool through the whole thing.

 

I can think of very few states less Christian conservative than California where I live.

And I do believe in our textbooks we had the ten commandments when talking about Judaism and we talked about the gospels for Christianity. And these were pretty mainstream textbooks.

 

That's pretty much how we do it in Texas, but that's not teaching about Christianity. Rather, it's teaching about what Christians did. The part about Christianity is taught with the coldness of an encyclopedia. These guys are monotheistic, those guys are polytheistic, here are the various symbols of the various religions, here, etc etc.