What would you do?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, May 28, 2013.

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What would you do?

  1. Allow the student to make up all work and tests.

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  2. Allow the student to make up some work and tests. (Which work and tests?)

    6 vote(s)
    20.7%
  3. Do not allow the student to make up any work.

    18 vote(s)
    62.1%
  4. Other--please explain.

    4 vote(s)
    13.8%
  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 28, 2013

    Scenario:

    Student currently has 15+ absences in your class this semester. Student frequently misses only your class, first period of the day, and attends other classes throughout the day.

    Student's overall grade is a fairly low F: somewhere around 30%, which includes minimum Fs for assessments. Student has multiple missing assignments (over a dozen).

    Behaviorally, the student is so-so. While generally respectful and compliant, the student has been involved in multiple instances of academic dishonesty, ranging from plagiarizing assignments from online sources and taking other students' work from the return work baskets and copying it. You yourself witnessed all of this.

    Your gradebook closed today, i.e., all work needed to be turned in or made-up by this date. This fact was heavily advertised over the past week and a half, in a variety of ways: orally in the classroom, on the board in the classroom, and in multiple postings on the class website.

    This evening you get an email from the student above. In it, the student asks for extended time to turn in work and make up missed tests. Student states that absenteeism has been due to "going through a lot this quarter" and the death of a relative. Neither the student nor the counseling office has made you aware of either issue prior to this email.

    What would you do?
     
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  3. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    I might reluctantly speak with the counseling office to check to see if he was involved... more of a CYA thing, but they should have contacted you first.

    But in general I'd say he was too late, and I wouldn't really feel comfortable extending time at this late a date. I would have difficulty being very accommodating, although I also wouldn't make it my hill to die on if admin had difficulty with it.
     
  4. orangetea

    orangetea Connoisseur

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    May 28, 2013

    I would not allow the student to make up any work.
     
  5. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    Why is he always absent or late?
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Excellent question. I suspect ditching but I can't really back that up.
     
  7. msufan

    msufan Comrade

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    I might check in with the counseling office, but this looks like a clear-cut F to me. I would, however, offer to meet with the student to express my sympathies and very gently advise that student on what the student could do next time to ensure that this doesn't happen again. I would take an "I wish there was something I could do about this but let's look at all of this evidence" approach rather than an oppositional one.
     
  8. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Never hurts to have more information. I'd talk to the counselor.

    I think consistency (especially in high school) is very important with grades. I wouldn't treat this student differently just because he asked.

    Also, you made yourself clear about late work. I think that should be a strong factor in your decision.
     
  9. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    May 28, 2013

    Other.

    I would want to speak to him. Find out what's going on...and discuss appropriate ways to handle whatever the situation is. Stealing someone else's work is not appropriate, obviously. I would "read" the student and go from there. I tend to have a big place in my heart for those going through truly difficult times (severe poverty, molestation, etc.), but I don't want to simply excuse their poor choices either. About the counseling office knowing his situation, it's entirely possible the office isn't aware. Not all families contact school about deaths and other difficult situations, and of course many students don't reveal to anyone some of the problems they face.
     
  10. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Posting before reading ahead...

    Because I know the atmosphere of my school I would allow the student to make up the tests. But only if they were super easy to grade (scantrons). At my school it doesn't really matter how much warning you have given the student, if he or his parent contacts administration, you are encouraged to give the student a second chance. Even if that second chance is a tenth chance.

    If the tests were not multiple choice, I would allow the last one (or two) to be made up. Just giving *something to the student to appear encouraging. Other work would not be accepted (I am assuming that your tests are weighted more heavily than other assignments).

    All of that would be for CYA. If I knew that I'd be 100% supported I would say no to everything.
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 28, 2013

    To those who are in the "other" or "allow some make-up" camps, would this additional information change your mind?

    Let's say that the student's other class grades are three other Fs, a C, and two As. Does that sort of spread indicate that the student is selective about which classes are impacted by the student's ongoing issues?
     
  12. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    No, I don't think so. I would be more inclined to think those A classes are just easy...Latin seems like a challenging course. ;)
     
  13. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    If he's really ditching, fail him.

    But I find most of the time something else is going on. Like my most well-behaved kid is consistently 15 minutes late and kept getting detentions. I finally investigated and found out he was walking his little sister to her classroom door at our elementary school down the street because their walk is dangerous. We finally worked an alternative out, but until recently we had no idea.
     
  14. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Let me add, though, that I wouldn't fault a teacher for not allowing makeups. The student eventually reached out to you, meaning he "had it in him" to speak up. He could have sooner. I just see so much sadness from students so if there is something I could do to help a student who WANTS and NEEDS a little extra, I would strongly consider it.
     
  15. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    I would also speak to the counselor. Maybe there is something going on at home that is preventing her from getting to school on time and she is panicking about assignments and that is what is driving her to cheat. Not that any of that would excuse cheating, but a set of extenuating circumstances could make the difference between letting the grade stand as is or letting her make up the work for a minimum passing grade.
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This is where I am struggling. I have similar feelings, but I also hate being manipulated. That's what this feels like to me: a manipulation.
     
  17. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Hmmm. That's not good.

    Was the one message the only contact?
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 28, 2013

    Yes.
     
  19. microbe

    microbe Comrade

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    Is this student interested in college? It seems like a lot of college bound high school students have no idea how serious plagiarism is, regardless of how often they're spoken to about it. If you plagiarize, you're lucky if you just fail that one class. If he is interested in college, this would be a great time to talk about the seriousness of academic dishonesty.

    That said, if you kept track of which assignments he cheated on, you could just give him a big fat F on all those assignments and let him make-up his other work and tests. But that is only if he isn't manipulating you and something serious happened in his life this year. Otherwise, you gave this student plenty of warning that the deadline to turn stuff in was coming up. He needs a harsh lesson in responsibility.
     
  20. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    The student should have come to you last week asking for extra time. He had plenty of opportunities. It is an elective- HE CHOSE TO TAKE YOUR CLASS! He shouldn't be allowed to make this up.
     
  21. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    A student with 15 absences would fail on attendance anyway. I would not let them make up work for that reason, and my administration would back me up. The only exception might be if she was a senior and it impacted graduation.
     
  22. msufan

    msufan Comrade

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    I don't see why it has to be harsh. He needs a lesson in responsibility. You can be kind and pleasant throughout the process, though. It's not personal or vindictive -- he just failed to do the work required to pass.
     
  23. kc_in_va

    kc_in_va Rookie

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    I would talk to the student and try to get more information but probably not allow him to make up the work. Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances but you could explain to him that you would have needed to know those earlier in order to have been able to help. At this point it seems way too late, unfortunately.
     
  24. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    Probably a discussion about how employers will just fire you instead of giving you the dreaded failing grade when you do not produce or just slack all the time. No job, no money, no vehicle and probably no girl friend..............
     
  25. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    Boy, does this story ever remind me of my first year teaching in the city. A high-profile senior football player missed my class 143 (out of 180) days. He was spending most of the day hanging out with the Dean of Students, watching television in his office, getting take-out food delivered there, etc..

    He failed three classes, one of which, of course, was mine. The Dean of Students told me I should find a way to pass him for the year. Little did I realize that this same guy approached the other two teachers and they changed his grade from "F"s to an "A" and a "C."

    Soon after, a car got vandalized that looked like mine, but it wasn't mine. A steady stream of relatives would pop up at my classroom door, unstopped by security (naturally, the Dean of Students was in charge of that), screaming at me from the doorway in the middle of my classes, and on and on.

    No one ever told me to look beyond the 143 absences, just pass him and that that was the way things were done, so I never did. Behind my back, our principal was telling people that I embarrassed the school by failing an all-city football player and that he was going to make me pay for it. He did. He spent the next five years making sure books I ordered didn't arrive, putting me in worse classrooms, putting the most dangerous kids in the school in my classes, and anything else he could think of.

    The original post in this thread and some of the subsequent responses took me back to that experience. Geez, those were six lousy years!


    :dizzy:
     
  26. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    Have you talked to the parents? I would check and see if the office has heard from the parent for some reason.
     
  27. Mr.history

    Mr.history Cohort

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    I voted other for one reason:

    You didn't mention if you spoke with this students parents before. At the school I student taught at last year we were required to contact parents multiple times throughout the semester if a student was failing at progress report time. It couldn't be a surprise that johnny brought home an F.
     
  28. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    This information might make me wonder what is going on if the As were in math related classes or some other specific domain. Also, I'd be discussing this with the counselor to see if there has been a trend.

    I haven't picked an other or allow-make up.

    I'm wondering why others haven't been informed as of yet to determine if there was a problem. I know different schools do things differently, but after the first few morning absences I would have e-mailed the counselor and AP in charge of attendance.
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Parents, counselors, administrators, coaches, and at-risk mentors have all been notified of absences, performance, progress, and missing assignments on numerous occasions throughout the year. I have documentation of at least 20 contacts with parents alone.
     
  30. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    My school allows makeup work under just about all circumstances. If he can show he's honestly mastered the standards and the assessments, then he should be allowed to prove it and pass. However, you can always reserve the right to give him an alternate assessment that none of his friends have had access to previous to his request for more time.
     
  31. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Update:

    Although I would have preferred to allow no make-ups whatsoever, I don't believe that admin would have supported that position. I allowed the student to make up the most recent test and I excused work from the past week.

    Although the student requested to take the make-up today and presumably should have arrived prepared, the student failed the make-up. I'm not sure what else I can do.
     
  32. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    He dug his own hole while you covered your own tush. You cannot be expected to offer a makeup makeup test.
     
  33. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    If with all that no one has discussed what is really going on with this kid then I say, there really is no reason for him to make up assignments. It isn't as if they are the only reason he is failing, and I'm sure he wouldn't understand the work from just doing the assignments to get them done.

    Oops... missed your update.
     
  34. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    Ok. I know you updated, but... I wouldn't allow the student to makeup any work. Nothing you posted matches my school's criteria to make up work (1 day per day absent, up to 10 days) AND make up work/tests can only receive a maximum of 50% if it is an unexcused absence.

    I'm actually waiting for something like this to happen on the last day. I have a handful of kids who didn't turn in a summative paper. I'm guessing they'll give it to me the last day, when my grades are due, after I've turned in my computer, and expect me to drop everything and grade them for full credit. Le Sigh.
     
  35. queenie

    queenie Groupie

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    I wouldn't let him make anything up. He should have come to you sooner.
     
  36. queenie

    queenie Groupie

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    Sorry- just saw your update AFTER I had posted...
     
  37. lucybelle

    lucybelle Connoisseur

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    You've done more than enough. Document everything. You simply can't give this child another opportunity. It wouldn't be fair to everyone else.
     
  38. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I believe I would have to go revisit that principal and tell him what I thought about his principles......What a useless low life excuse for an administrator. Hard to believe you endured six years of that, must have been a great job and pay otherwise......
     

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