What was your SAT/ACT score?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by fedfanforever11, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. fedfanforever11

    fedfanforever11 Rookie

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    Education majors have an average SAT score below the national average, which is incredibly low.
    What was your score? What does this say about teaching? Do they need to raise salaries and make education programs harder?
    Is this an issue?
     
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  3. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    In my state there are no education majors. You need a degree in an academic subject if you want to be a teacher.

    I don't remember what my SAT scores were. I never used them to get into college.
     
  4. INteacher

    INteacher Aficionado

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    waaaayyyy toooo long ago for me to remember ~ seriously, I took the SAT more than 30 years ago :) Way too much life since then ;)
     
  5. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Yeah, I took the SATs in 1975.
     
  6. MrsKP

    MrsKP Companion

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    I never took the ACT, but I took the "new" SAT (I think I was in the first year of having a "writing portion."

    umm...

    math - 630
    critical thinking - 610
    writing- 600

    I have no idea what the average is. I was upset because I didn't score as high as some of my friends :p

    I'm not sure it says anything about teaching. Statistics like that are iffy to me, anyways. They are often taken out of context or are not quite as they appear. Sarge's post is a good example - not all teachers were education majors.
     
  7. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    I had a 26 on the ACT in 1982. Back then they did not mean much because you only had to have a 19 to get into LSU the major college in my area.
     
  8. Learner4Life

    Learner4Life Cohort

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    I took the ACTs and not the SATs... and I don't remember my scores, though I think my English was above 30. Math was not so hot.
     
  9. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    I can't remember what my ACT scores were, somewhere in the 20's.

    I think you should differentiate between teachers and education majors though.

    Not everyone that goes into premed is going to be a doctor, just like not everyone that majors in education is going to be a teacher.

    I'm sure we've all met a person or two and thought to ourselves "wow, what is he or she doing here." But the really bad types seem to filter out, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
     
  10. MrsKP

    MrsKP Companion

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    Yikes, after googling I'm realizing I don't even meet the minimum requirements for a lot of colleges.. maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to post my scores :blush:
     
  11. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Feel free to edit them out, I'm big on keeping things private over the internet myself. ;)
     
  12. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    As to all this, I'm not convinced that SAT scores indicate anything other than your ability to master the "how to beat the SATs tactics."

    I teach SAT prep--my course is NOT about academics. It's about beating the exam.

    It's been quite some time since ETS even tried to convice anyone that this was an "aptitude" test-- the letters no longer stand for anything.

    I do agree that teachers need to be smart. They need to have a strong body of knowledge that far surpasses what they'll ever expect to see in class. Math teachers should know history, and history teachers should know math.

    But I don't see any correllation between SAT scores and intelligence or aptitude or anything close.
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    The SATS are now based on 2400 points. Up until about 10 years ago, they were based on 1600 as a perfect score.
     
  14. FarFromHome

    FarFromHome Connoisseur

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    I didn't take the SAT, but got a 31 on the ACT.
     
  15. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I took my SATs in 1979. My score was very good for that time. The test has changed since then.

    Research indicates that SAT scores are predictive of how well you will do in your frown year of college, and not much else.
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    For those of us who took the "old" SAT:

    - the math now has no Quantitative Comparisons. Calculators are encouraged.

    - the verbal is now 2 parts: the traditional parts, minus the old analogy section, and a writing section . Each of those 2 parts is worth 800 points, and the math is an additional 800.
     
  17. teacherfan

    teacherfan Cohort

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    I think my SAT score was 1100 in 1987 although I didn't use the SAT to get into college 16 years after I graduated high school.
     
  18. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    I never took it. I didn't see the need. I was a high achieving high schooler but since I planned to start out at the junior college, I didn't see the need to take the test. :)
     
  19. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

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    I took the ACT, and did very well on it.
     
  20. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    Where are you getting the information that education majors' scores are lower? I find that incredibly hard to believe...I know absolutely everyone in my program was "book smart" and a good student. Now, it takes more than book smarts to be a good teacher, so I'm not saying all those education majors went on to be teachers, but everyone I ever went to class with was very intelligent. I was a "smart kid" in high school and hung out with a lot of the other "smart kids" too since we were pretty much in the same classes all 4 years. The number of us that became teachers is astounding.

    Anyway, I took the ACT and got a 30 without preparing at all. Since I considered that score to be pretty good, I saw no need to even bother taking the SAT as colleges will take either one.
     
  21. yellowdaisies

    yellowdaisies Fanatic

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    :yeahthat:

    To me, doing well on the SAT mostly means that you're a good test taker! It could also mean that your parents shelled out $$$$$ to send you to expensive prep classes to prepare you, and you then improved your score by taking the test multiple times...just saying. ;)

    I took the SAT when it was still out of 1600, and I did well. I only took it once.

    However, I was not an education major, so I wouldn't have been included in the stats anyway. I'm in Sarge's state, and we don't have education majors here.
     
  22. fedfanforever11

    fedfanforever11 Rookie

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    ^^
    yeah, a 30 is really good, esp. without prep. Most ppl need to prep for much lower scores:)

    heres the link: there have been other studies too, just google it

    http://israeliteidentity.com/dtab130.htm
     
  23. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Also, the SATs have been "re-centered" since about 1990 or 1995. There was a national outcry over falling SAT scored. So instead of either:
    a) teaching what was on the test

    or

    b) testing what was being taught

    the ETS has been quietly curving scores for at least 15 years.

    from wikipedia (yeah, I know. But it had the most concise summary I could find quickly): (the underline and italics at the end are mine.)

    1994 changesIn 1994 the verbal section received a dramatic change in focus. Among these changes were the removal of antonym questions, and an increased focus on passage reading. The mathematics section also saw a dramatic change in 1994, thanks in part to pressure from the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics. For the first time since 1935, the SAT asked some non-multiple choice questions, instead requiring students to supply the answers. 1994 also saw the introduction of calculators into the mathematics section for the first time in the test's history. The mathematics section introduced concepts of probability, slope, elementary statistics, counting problems, median and mode.[23]

    The average score on the 1994 modification of the SAT I was usually around 1000 (500 on the verbal, 500 on the math). The most selective schools in the United States (for example, those in the Ivy League) typically had SAT averages exceeding 1400 on the old test[citation needed].

    [edit] 1995 Recentering (Raising Median Score back to 500)The test scoring was initially scaled to make 500 the mean score on each section with a standard deviation of 100.[25] As the test grew more popular and more students from less rigorous schools began taking the test, the average dropped to about 428 Verbal and 478 Math. The SAT was "recentered" in 1995, and the average "new" score became again close to 500. Scores awarded after 1994 and before October 2001 are officially reported with an "R" (e.g. 1260R) to reflect this change. Old scores may be recentered to compare to 1995 to present scores by using official College Board tables,[26] which in the middle ranges add about 70 points to Verbal and 20 or 30 points to Math. In other words, current students have a 100 (70 plus 30) point advantage over their parents. This recentering did away with discrimination among the best scoring students at the top end of the test as there were now more people clustered at the high end of the score range
     
  24. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I took the ACT my junior year. I didn't study and I didn't much care. I was at the point in my life—though I knew I wanted to teach—that I was mainly focused on my hourly job. I know, I know. Silly. I didn't need to take it again to get into a private college, and I did well enough on the English portion to bypass Comp I, but it wasn't at all impressive. I probably would have done just as fine as a seventh grade when I was selected to take it then (for that Duke TIP program), but couldn't because we couldn't afford the $40 fee. Yep, that's how unimpressive my scores were at sixteen. I survived. :)
     
  25. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    I don't want to go into specifics, but I took the ACT in 7th grade (part of TIP) and scored well enough that had I not taken it ever again I could have gone to a pretty good college with that score. Sadly, the college I attended did not want ACT scores, and I did not do as well on my SAT scores.

    I do often find myself sitting around at workshops and wondering how some of the people there managed to get certified. I know that sounds really snobbish, but I would want someone intelligent teaching my own child, and some of the teachers I meet are just... not. I know I often am asked, "But you're so smart, you could be anything, why are you just a teacher?" I don't agree with it, but that's the public perception of teachers, and I hate when I realize that in some places it's more true than in other places. We need to find ways to attract the best and brightest to the field.
     
  26. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

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    MissCelia, I could have written much of your post...

    When I was in middle school/high school, I felt really pressured (not from by parents or anyone specific, but just in general) to be something other than a teacher (such as a doctor, lawyer, etc.). It took until the end of my senior year before I finally realized that I really did want to be a teacher, and that it was not in any way "settling." Now, I don't think that it was a "putting down" of teachers, but more exalting those other jobs.
     
  27. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Yeah, it scares me when I read or hear teachers and know that they're either poorly educated or simply not bright.

    "Being smart" isn't the only requirement for teaching, but it most certainly should be high on the list.
     
  28. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    You know MissCelia, my mom (who is a teacher) used to say the same thing! Out of my close group of girl friends growing up, a large majority of us wanted to be teachers. My mom used to say, "you girls are all so smart- don't you want to do anything else?" As I got older and got some experience teaching through field experiences and my high school/college jobs, my mom came to realize that I was obviously meant to be a teacher- which she'll freely admit now :)

    As to the study, I think saying a math major will score better on a math test than an education major is not suprising at all. Of course they will! That's like saying an education major will score better on the principles of learning and teaching praxis than a math teacher! Not to mention, anyone that specifically wants to be a math teacher has to major in math, not education, so any math teachers would be included in the math stats. Likewise for English teachers taking the verbal section. In my state, the only people that major in education are elementary ed. majors- everyone else must major in the subject they want to teach. Teaching elementary school requires one to be smart too obviously, but it requires more "smart" skills such as critical thinking, problem solving, communicating, etc. rather than just straight up content knowledge. It takes a higher level of thinking to really know how to teach someone even a simple math concept than it does to know how to solve even a complex math problem.
     
  29. fedfanforever11

    fedfanforever11 Rookie

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    I don't think it's the whole, ed majors vs. math majors, it's more the fact the eled majors have an average sat score lower than the national average.
     
  30. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

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    You also have to take into account that you're only looking at a sub-group of people taking the SAT, not at the general population. I'm sure that has an effect on things.
     
  31. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    The California Commission for Teacher Credentialing collects a variety of demographic information from takers of California's teacher tests. I seem to recall seeing statistics from the MSAT - the old multiple-subjects exam for elementary teachers - that showed by far the highest passing rate among science and math majors, followed by a mix of social science and applied science majors, then humanities majors, and Liberal Studies majors at the bottom. Admittedly, this was before NCLB, when Liberal Studies majors could (and most did) were waived from taking MSAT on the basis of their portfolios. Still, it was sobering.
     
  32. Catcherman22

    Catcherman22 Companion

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    Back in 2000 I was 790 Math and 540 English
     
  33. KatherineParr

    KatherineParr Comrade

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    I used to teach in a program that offered a major in history and a major in history teaching. The students in the HT major had lower ACT scores, lower GPAs, and often struggled to perform well in the capstone course.

    But the thing that really convinced me that there was a problem was that bright, talented students *did* sign up for a HT major. Then they dropped out. Why?

    Because the College of Ed was so insanely rigid about their rules that students who had other options wouldn't put up with it. The rules about scheduling, testing, student teaching, and even just classroom work never ceased to amaze me.

    So I think there's a question here about whether education departments are succeeding in attracting all of the students they want (and I agree that the measure of that is imprecise) AND there's a question about whether students who are interested in teaching choose another path because some education majors are structurally impossible.
     
  34. MrsKP

    MrsKP Companion

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    Wow, catcherman... kudos on the math score. I'm impressed.
     
  35. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    I think it's inexcusable if the average scores for elementary education majors really is below the national average. Elementary teachers have, in my opinion, the most vital job in all of education. If they don't lay a strong foundation, the rest of us face an uphill battle.

    To answer the original question: I took the SAT in 1989 as a HS freshman. I thought it would be good practice. I got a 1600, when that was a perfect score. I didn't think I needed to take it again after that.
     
  36. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I only took the ACT, on the morning of my grandmother's funeral. I don't remember my exact score. It was two points lower than perfect, whatever that was back then. It was good enough to get me accepted into Rice, Texas A&M, and UT.
     
  37. Sam Aye M

    Sam Aye M Mr. Know-It-All

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    I never took the SAT or ACT. I wasn't even sure if I was going to graduate HS on time, much less go to college.
     
  38. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    Do you really think the most important thing for elementary ed. is to excel at college level math and vocabulary? I don't think so at all. Yes, any teacher should be "smart." However, I don't need to master calculus to teach 3rd grade math. Should I have an understanding of what kids need to know in the next grade levels? Sure. However, that still doesn't translate to me needing to get a better score than others on SAT math. I STRUGGLED with math all throughout my schooling. My school made you stay on the same track for everything, so since I was in the AP track I had no choice but to take AP math as well even though I would have benefited from the college prep class much more. My freshman year of high school in alegebra 2, I would study for hours and hours, as well as spend a minimum of 2 1/2 hours on 30 math problems each night and I was getting 50's and 60's on tests. My parents hired me a private tutor that I saw 3 times a week and she got me up to a "B", by the skin of my teeth, which I still worked my butt off for. My ACT math score was a 23, which is quite low. My other areas were so high that they brought my score up.

    You know what? Math is my absolute strongest subject to teach. I really understand why kids don't get it, and I know what I need to do to break it down for them. Over the course of this year, I had 10 students referred to me through RtI for math concerns. In less than 6 months, 9 of them were on grade level. The 10th was over 3 1/2 years behind and is being tested for a learning disability. I can say without a doubt that struggling with math has made me a better teacher. Not only do I teach that subject well, but I also have the patience and empathy that only comes from my own experiences with math. When something is explained 15 times and a kid still doesn't get it, I don't give up or get frustrated...I understand, because I was that kid! One of my best friends is a high school teacher and she is incredibly intelligent. She never had a weak subject. She REALLY struggles with teaching because she gets so frustrated when kids don't understand things after awhile and/or if they consistently get low grades. She doesn't know what it's like to sit in a class and really not understand. She thinks the kids are just being lazy.

    There are plenty of people out there that are smart. It takes a WHOLE LOT more than that to be a good teacher. I bet that many of those people scoring near perfect scores on their SAT's wouldn't last a week in a classroom.
     
  39. EMonkey

    EMonkey Connoisseur

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    "Education majors have an average SAT score below the national average, which is incredibly low." That is quite a generalization.

    I took the SAT during my junior year in 1986. I got very high, I do not remember how high, in language arts-high enough that I skipped an entire year of language arts requirements upon entering college. I got a lower score in math; but have no clue at this point what it was. I only remember the language arts being high because of the skipping of classes.

    When I went to school for the credential the SAT was irrelevant because it was graduate school, I had to have a certain level of GPA from my undergraduate degree-I think it was required to be over 3.8.
     
  40. Leatherette

    Leatherette Comrade

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    Back in 1989, I had a combined score of 1320 on the SATs. I don't know the breakdown by language arts/math, but language arts was higher. I scored much higher on standardized tests once I no longer lived with a highly dysfunctional family.

    After teaching special ed. for 10 years, my analytical score on the GRE was in the 89th percentile (of people taking the GREs). It is kind of interesting, because when I took it the first time, 11 years before, I did better on language (I was an English major) and worse on analytical (I was 21 years old).

    I have met some teachers in my career that I would guess were not great students, but most of the teachers I know were high achievers. I went to a separate school for students in the top 1% for a while, when I lived somewhere that it was offered, and took AP and honors classes in high school. I am not sure where the data about teachers being so academically low in general comes from. My anecdotal data doesn't support that data.;)
     
  41. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Wait: when did SAT start testing calculus??
     
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