What kinds of services do students with EBD get at your school?

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by waterfall, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Jan 11, 2012

    In my district it used to be that these students' IEPs would qualify them for counseling services. The sped department decided to take that off, and we're no longer allowed to list that as an option anymore. I guess if a student's academics suffered a lot as a result of the EBD they could get regular academic services with me, but that's really it. We do have a self-contained class in the district, but it's for kids with severe, severe issues. I believe there are less than 5 kids in the entire district in it (in a district with 23 schools). I kind of struggle with this because I feel like it's such a heavy label to put on kids, and then they really don't even get any services out of it. We have a couple of kids going through behavior RtI right now and I think one of them would be headed for identification...but when teachers ask me what actually putting him on an IEP would mean, I have no good answer for them. The student is already on a formal behavior plan and getting accommodations, so identification wouldn't change any of that. I'm trying to figure out if this is typical or not!
     
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  3. Mellz Bellz

    Mellz Bellz Comrade

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    Jan 11, 2012

    In my school most EBD kids have an IEP with the very least behavior goals and seen consultatively by a Sp Ed teacher to check in on them. Majority of students who qualify for EBD also require academic support because their behavior interferes with their ability to learn. Most EBD students are in inclusion classes and are seen on average once a month by our behavior specialist. For severe cases we have an alternative school in district. If the child is so severe that they are a threat to others they can be placed on a half day schedule or home schooled but this is rare.

    We are also blessed in my district to work very closely with a local mental health agency that provides services to children with behavior issues. Their services range from targeted case management to after school programs to one on one mentors that work with the students in school at home and in the community. They are great and such a big help to students who need the extra support. Last year a number of my students received services through them.
     
  4. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Funny - just posted a really long post about EBD on another thread, basically saying that it's very poorly defined, understood, and used. Typically, I think the major function of the category is to remove kids from the room and put them in a separate class. Of course, the idea is that - in that separate class - they will be able to work more closely with a teacher (and aide) on behavioral and academic goals, but the IEP typically is not used for identification of particular interventions or programs - just the "setting" (i.e, separate classroom).

    I've never worked in a district where counseling was written in to the IEP, primarily because the district doesn't want to box itself in to that service, even if it really is warranted. The feeling that has typically be expressed to me is, "We'll provide counseling, but we don't need to write it into the IEP." One thought is that kids may stop needing counseling at some point, and another is that school counselors often can't keep regular weekly appointments because they're saddled with many other administrative responsibilities such as coordinating testing or child study meetings, and the school doesn't want to risk being out of compliance with an IEP because the counselor is busy doing something else. Of course, none of those are good reasons to not provide a needed service, but they are nevertheless used.
     
  5. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Jan 12, 2012

    Our students with EBD are linked with a special education teacher. They do get minutes in the classroom (push in), depending on their needs. Some have organizational minutes, some have prompting minutes, some of social skills minutes...Our students also do have social work written into the IEP. These students do have weekly or monthly social work meetings, depending on their needs.
     
  6. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    In my former school we had a school psychologist on staff. She was assigned to only our school so EBD students did have services written into their IEP's. I'm like Waterfall I feel its a heavy label to put on a child. If fact I don't care for the label at all. As a parent I would never allow that label to be placed on my child. EBD is such a broad term and so poorly understood. It's not an easy label to change (perspective) even if the child receives help and improves.
     
  7. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I would feel better about it if it were, "we're going to do it as much as possible but not list it on the IEP." They've decided to just do away with it all together though because the district has decided the psychs don't have time to work with kids. We don't have counselors or social workers. There aren't any community services other than those for kids who are literally suicidal (the "second wind" fund). I personally don't feel like I'm qualified to give counseling services. I can help with academics if that's a secondary issue as a result of the EBD, but this particular student is so good at academics to begin with that even with all of the behavior issues that he's pretty much performing right at or right below grade level. I don't think any of my academic groups would be the right placement for him. He's also definitely not severe enough to qualify for a separate placement, especially in my district. Our SLP was working with a student at another school last year who brought weapons to school, set things at school on fire, made death threats to students and teachers, physically harmed students and teachers, repeatedly jammed scissors into his body during lessons, etc. and they were told he didn't qualify for the separate EBD classroom. Basically in my district an EBD IEP will give the student consult services with the psych and possibly consult services with me. I feel like slapping a kid with that heavy of a label simply so the teacher can "officially" consult with the psych or me is ridiculous. They can do that anyway at any time, IEP or not. It's not like we're going to say, "Sorry, you don't have official consult services. I'm not talking to you about this student." Our psych was saying that label can really follow a student around...something about how they can't even get a government job even if they were labeled as EBD in elementary school? I'm not sure if "government job" meant actually working in government or any public sector job.
     
  8. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Jan 13, 2012

    With counseling, the favorite phrase of districts is "when needed"

    Then there are no defined hours and the school counselor and the student usually sets up appointments (i.e. every tuesday at x:xx, then the counselor might say "Oh we can't meet next week because of a meeting/professional development/whatever")

    Basically "When Needed" is good in a situation such as when providing counseling, but it can very easily be abused (Such as giving a student with anxiety an accommodation "Student will receive study guides five days before a test when needed")

    This post probably makes very little sense as I am typing it while rather tired. Hopefully I got my point across.
     
  9. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Jan 13, 2012

    We are not allowed to use the "as needed" phrase on IEPs anymore. If a student needs an accommodation, then the student needs it. If a student needs a service, then the student needs the service.
     
  10. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    We aren't either. They made a big deal out of that this year.
     
  11. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Jan 13, 2012

    Our compliance office says no more 'as needed' and 'as requested' usually used together allowed. That doesn't stop the IEP teams for trying to get away with it as often as possible.

    Just think, an IEP that can never be out of compliance! Yes, the student requested it, but it wasn't needed (in my professional judgement).

    I know I am harsh when discussing these issues, but as we see from other posters, these types of games do happen and it has nothing to do with the students. When we look at the abysmal results for students in special education, no one has to wonder why when an IEP can be written such that the students needs don't have to be met.

    Our school has EBD services. Severe cases have a specialized program and some students are at a specialized facility that does a great job. Now, depending on the school where the child is initially enrolled, the student gets different types of services. Schools with certain cultures will never list a child with EBD and some are EBD happy but don't provide much in the form of services. Then there are those few schools in the district that do it right with proper services listed on the IEP (large district here).
     
  12. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Jan 13, 2012

    Just keep telling yourself you're searching for a new job for next year :). Yeah, I hear you - doesn't seem like there's much point to an EBD placement in your district if there aren't any associated services!
     
  13. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Jan 13, 2012

    Great observations bros!
     
  14. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    I don't think you're being harsh at all - it's definitely a very vivid reality.
     
  15. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Jan 13, 2012

    My son has had counseling written in his IEP for 3 schools and he gets very specific minutes.
     
  16. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

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    Jan 13, 2012

    At both districts I've worked in, there has been a continuum of services for students with emotional/behavioral disabilities:

    Partial Hospitalization Program (day program in a hospital for very severe students - usually depression/suicide/aggressive behaviors)

    Private Specialized School (specifically for EBD)

    Homebound (2 hrs a day from home instructor, a lot of these kids are perpetually truant and refuse to board the bus, or run away from school once they're dropped off, this is a pretty last resort)

    Regular school, special class (all or part of the day) - self contained Behavior disabilities classroom -- last school district called it "The Transition Program," with the idea that the eventual goal was to transition them to a less restrictive setting

    Regular school, resource/inclusion (services from special education teacher in regular ed classroom or resource room, could often be used as a cool down spot, or a place to check in at the beginning of the day)

    Regular school, no educational services needed, but related services provided (counseling, social skills training, etc.)
     
  17. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Jan 14, 2012

    Observations are fun! :p

    At least a lot of districts are refraining from the use of as needed and similar verbage now.

    My cousin has an IEP for ED (Anxiety), and she doesn't have counseling in her IEP. I believe my aunt said that the IEP team pretty much said that they can't guarantee it, so they told her that she should just get private counseling if possible, and they put in her IEP that if she feels overwhelmed or needs someone to talk to, she can go to someone at the school who is familiar with her situation.
     
  18. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Has your cousin's family found her IEP to be helpful?
     
  19. soccerjs

    soccerjs New Member

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    Jan 14, 2012



    In our district, we tend to say a student will have "access" to these services. This allows us to dictate the service, and increase or remove it all together if it is not needed.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Jan 14, 2012

    It is the same theme as 'as needed' using a different word. The problem here is your sentence, 'This allows US to dictate the service...". I emphasized US because now the determination is no longer a TEAM determination which includes the parent and/or student or the student that is 18 or older. It becomes a school driven choice to give services. All decisions for servcies need to be made as part of a team.

    Addendums can be made to increase or decrease services (not eliminate) to make it a TEAM decision.
     
  21. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    Jan 14, 2012

    In my former school the IEP was written on Goalview and we did use as needed. It was a team decision with the parent. I liked it because some of my students really didn't need to be pulled. However, if it were a mid-term or final the parent and the team all had to agree to let the student remain in the classroom. (2 co-teachers) It was a full inclusion school.

    Here, there is no as needed. All inclusion students pulled.
     
  22. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I kind of wish we could still use "as needed" as well. I do understand that it can be a problem if the school just tells the parent it will be "as needed" and uses that as an excuse to not do it even when it is needed, but that really isn't an issue at my school. I have a student that has service hours with me really just so he can come to my room if he needs a quieter place to work. This has become a huge issue because since we can't say "as needed" on the IEP, we have to set a certain number of hours that he will spend in my room on the IEP. The parent doesn't understand that whatever we put on there is the minimum (so if I say 6 hours a month, he has to spend at least 6 hours a month with me) and not something like "he can choose to come to my room up to 6 hours a month". He has 12 hours a month on there now meaning he must be pulled from his classroom 3 hours a week rather he needs it or not. The teacher is frustrated that he's missing so much instructional time to basically just sit in my room, and I feel the time in my room is basically wasted. We could solve the whole problem if we could list an "as needed" service on the IEP.
     
  23. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I understand what you are saying, but we can chalk this removal of the phrase 'as needed' from IEPs because of schools that ABUSED the ability to decide when something was needed.

    It is a real shame because those that do abuse end up hurting everyone in the long run.

    But then again, with some of the issues you have raised about higher ups ideas about how some things need to be done, you must understand the need for parents to fight to protect the rights of their children. Sometimes that requires an absolute.

    Now, our accommodations don't come with times associated with them. If a child went to pull-out (intervention or a special class where the specially designed instruction is given), that time would have to be listed on the IEP. Since there should be a plan to provide the recommended instruction to the student the time should be known. If it is not appropriate it should be amended up or down. If a child need an accommodation that required a quiet envirnoment there would be no time associated with it because it is based on the type of work that is being done at the time. The time listed on the IEP would be intervention time, but that wouldn't mean the child couldn't go to a quiet environment randomly for a test. The criteria for the quiet environment would just have to be better defined - for tests, for quizzes, or whatever situation the student would need quiet to focus or remain less distracted. So, to be sitting in an IEP meeting and determining how many tests a student might need accommodations on to determine service mintues would not be the right way to determine minutes in our district. Having a student go to a special environment for the accommodation is above and beyond the defined service minutes.
     
  24. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Jan 15, 2012

    So true! I've found that looking into new areas/jobs strangely relaxing lately...
     
  25. bros

    bros Phenom

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    They find it helpful, aside from the few times when the person aware of her situation is unavailable. It took them a while to agree to an IEP, they wanted to have an "informal" accommodations sheet.

    she's going into high school
     
  26. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    You know, it is unfortunate to have lost the ability to use the "as needed" statement appropriately, such as access to support during mid-terms or something similar. It might be interesting to specify conditions to protect both sides, or to allow the family to make an independent choice to access support, but place parameters on that access (based on the child's need).

    So, a child could access support "if requested" and "up to 30 minutes per day" or something similar.

    Just thinking out loud here!
     
  27. bros

    bros Phenom

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    That would be useful. It would take a very carefully written IEP (Or law) to keep the perfect balance so both sides are equal.

    Probably would've been useful for me. I didn't need extended time on any tests in high school, but every teacher offered it to me (outside of ones who were somewhat discriminatory towards me) and I only used it on standardized tests. Same with most of my accommodations, with the exception of preferential seating and use of a computer/computer written documents are to be accepted in lieu of written work (this was one of my accommodations, the case manager REALLY didn't want to put it in, because she thoght I wasn't writing well because I was lazy)
     
  28. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Apparently for this student, the previous IEP team (at his old school) has originally put that he could go to the resource room "as requested" but the student abused it and used it as an excuse to get out of class when he didn't feel like working. That school did a lot of push-in interventions, so the special ed teacher also wasn't always in the resource room so the student would want to go down but the teacher wouldn't be there. They'd end up having to have an aide (which we don't even have) sit with this one kid instead of helping in classrooms just so he wouldn't be alone in the room. They'd also find him wandering the halls for 40 minutes "walking to the resource room." They documented how many times he went and it was literally up to 20+ times a day. They tried to put "at the teacher's discretion" on the IEP instead, but the parent wouldn't agree to that which is how they arrived at the 12 mandatory hours. When he got to our school I tried to compromise and have four mandatory hours along with "extra time at the teacher's discretion" (I absolutely know this teacher wouldn't keep the kid from coming if he really needed it) but we couldn't get the parent to agree to that. It's almost like any way you put it someone isn't happy with it. This student is obviously a special case- I don't think that most students would try to abuse accommodations. However, with some of my really low kids I'm not sure that they're self-aware enough to realize when they'd really need an accommodation, so I'd be worried about leaving it up to them to ask for it.
     
  29. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Jan 17, 2012

    Very interesting, waterfall. Definitely shows how it's important to be specific with language on IEPs...
     
  30. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Jan 18, 2012

    Language is key on IEPs. Loose language can be abused by parents and schools alike.
     

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