Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by CDOR79, Sep 1, 2018.
Sep 10, 2018
Practice responsible? Do the students also learn a book, too, lol?
Couldn’t you also say that you are “testing” students by giving them a lab assessment? For instance, when I was in college I took an upper division microbiology course and we were given lab practicals. They assessed us by testing us to see what we know. I still think you are giving students tests just in a different form.
And I never said I expect students to memorize every fact. Where did I say that? I just inferred that formal assessments are necessary to correctly assess student performance and understanding, in whatever form you make them. After all, that’s the point of a test. They are designed to “test” to see what you know.
And I promise you, I am not campaigning about public schools, as I’ve said on numerous occasions. If you go back and read my post that precipiated the *mess* that followed, you will see that all I said was that the incoming public school students who took the Spanish 1 and 2 assessments reported that they watched Serena and Dora the Explorer in class instead of doing real work. Does that mean that all public school students do this and all public school Spanish students do this regularly? No, it doesn’t. Anyway, it was stated that the “War on Public Schools continues,” thus indicating that any comment made about a particular instance with public schools is considered an attack on them.
I really wish people would stop adding their own interpretations to what I mean. Just read it explicitly, please. I promise, I’m not trying to be insulting or make inflammatory comments or whatever.
I hope this clarifies a few things.
Like I said, you can double talk all you like, but when multiple people are telling you the same thing, it's time to self examine.
And no, for your information, my district wants formal tests.
And one again, you miss the point. The tests still require you to spit back information without any true understanding of higher order thinking.
And multiple people can be wrong. A group consensus does not determine the truth or validity of something just because a large amount of people do it. Many people thought the Earth was flat once upon a time and Galileo was put on house arrest for revealing the truth. Now, I am in no way comparable to the great Galileo, but I hope that kind of puts it into perspective.
And you, yourself, just said that you don’t pretend to understand my feelings or something similar, but then you keep saying that I mean this, I mean that. Which is it?
Anytime you repeat anything, you have to “spit” back information, so not for just tests.
I am sorry for the misconception. My school does not require me to work 1:1 with students who frequently forget their homework. This was 100% my decision because I want all students in my classroom to be successful.
It IS possible to write test questions that get students applying information in new ways. It's bloody hard, however, in some measure because the most effective such questions (like the most effective projects) will pose locally relevant problems and be fleshed out with locally relevant detail. Consider school-administrator tests: a question that presupposes that "building" means 'campus' is more transparent in states in which a school is housed in one multi-story building with interior corridors and stairwells than it is in a state in which a campus generally consists of a dozen smaller one-story buildings connected by exterior walkways. If the question both presupposes and depends on one of those senses of "building", as a question on school security might, it will be inappropriately challenging to candidates who are familiar with the other: they'll have to spend time solving the problem of the meaning of "building" and sorting out its applicability to the case in hand before they ever get to demonstrating the knowledge that the question was intended to elicit.
Excellently put and great analogy!
I think tests should require students to interpolate within the question stem rather than extrapolate outside of it to answer it, if that makes sense. A good test question, IMO, is one in which students can utilize the knowledge they’ve learned to solve a problem that requires use of said knowledge. A bad question, IMO, is one that requires you to know some obscure definition or fact that you probably don’t know or are asked to interpret something very vague (so little context is provided) or to decipher what the question is even asking — it should be explicitly stated as questions posed in the real world are asked this way. People usually try to be as specific as possible when asking questions, so I don’t understand why some test makers aren’t when they make questions.
You've missed my point. If we mean for students to understand that school skills are fungible - that skills in one discipline can and do carry over to others and that school skills can be valuable in what passes for real life - then it seems to me that test questions and assessments that are as hermetically sealed as you're proposing are exactly the wrong approach.
Sep 11, 2018
I thought you were talking about the framing of testing questions and the methodology that students must employ about solving them, as well as the appropriateness of each question type. That is why I agreed and added why I think questions on tests should be asked in such a way that there is no ambiguity as to what they are asking. For example, “What does the author mean when he/she says...?” or “Find the distance between the two structures.” or “How do you think this process could be optimized given that we know...?” or “Use this artistic technique to have <insert desired effect>.” You know, sort of how questions would be asked at a job or presented in daily conversation.
People normally don’t allude to what they want or make you guess at what they are implying unless for amusement purposes like when you ask someone a riddle. They normally would try to be as specific as possible. They may even hint at what they are trying to ask if they can’t figure out how to put it into words, but they work toward getting you to understand what it is they are trying to inquire about.
Take your initial post. If you had just outwardly said what you just told me, then there would be no confusion, would there?
I like what the most recently added Supreme Court Justice said once during a case: “Can’t we just read and interpret the statute as it is written?”
Not: “Which of these words does not belong?” and you are given, say a word list with a bunch of aviation terms like aileron and cabane strut that the majority of people probably would not know, and one seafaring word like athwart and so you would need to be familiar with said terms to have any chance of answering it; or “Answer the following,” and then a situation is proposed without a question, or you get a problem where the question is concealed within a paragraph with a large quantity of superfluous information, etc., etc.
Which do you think you are more likely to encounter at a job, even a highly technical one or job that requires a specific skill set?
Oh my..this post really blew up! Lol
Thanks for all the helpful responses!
I think it depends on if you're referring to the interactions between people, or the work being done in the job. The interactions would likely be more direct, but the application within your job would likely be more creative/open-ended (i.e. it wouldn't necessarily have one solution path). For example, you might be told to code something that does X, but you need to be able to apply skills in creative ways to get there.
Right, but the instructions are still direct. That’s what I’m trying to get across here. Even if *you* use a creative approach to get there, the instructions are still highly specific.
The original poster has gotten a lot of good information. Unfortunately, this has veered too far off the original topic.
Separate names with a comma.