What is a great teacher

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Teachingtoo, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. Teachingtoo

    Teachingtoo Rookie

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    Apr 17, 2021

    How do you know you're doing good or great as teacher? What are the other signs apart from hearing some of your students say "Miss, you're my favorite teacher" or something along those lines...does admin say anything? Do you just feel it and know you're doing good even if you aren't told.
    This crosses my mind every now and then, I just want to be the best that I can be as a teacher and hope that my students actaully mean it when they say they like me...it means that I'm a good teacher and doing what a teacher is supposed to do. I sometimes don't believe them, i think they say it to all teachers☹️
     
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  3. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Great question. One way to tell is that students love coming to your class. Great teachers do not set out with the purpose of being liked (and you didn't say this), but being liked is a byproduct of great teaching.
     
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  4. Peachpies

    Peachpies Rookie

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    Being great teacher is 100% opinion. The teaching profession is almost all opinion based.
     
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  5. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    One person might have a different definition of a great teacher than another person. Even if 50 people told you that you were a great teacher there might be that one person who says you aren't. I think most teachers do certain things that are "great" but the overall designation can be up for interpretation.
     
  6. Lucas21

    Lucas21 New Member

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    Great teacher is someone who teaches about life and prepares student for the future with the education she is teaching
     
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  7. MrTempest

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    Great teacher is someone who teaches about life and prepares student for the future with the education he is teaching
     
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  8. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Connoisseur

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    I think you know when you have hit the point of being really good at teaching. Not everyone may agree with your values though like a PP mentioned. You know when the kids are learning valuable skills to become successful in life and most of the kids enjoy your class, most of the time. You will never be able to keep them all happy at 1 time for very long if you are doing your job imo. Unless you have the perfect class.....
    Some kids need to learn discipline, perseverance, and self control. The kids won't always be happy with you. IF you are fair, kind, and have their best interest in heart, I think you are teaching valuable life lessons. Sometimes you need to do things you don't want to do. I think it is important for kids to understand/ learn that.
     
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  9. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    As much as we don't want to acknowledge it, evaluations, student standardized testing, and even evaluations done on our SPED students can give us a pretty good idea of whether or not we are effectively getting our students to learn the required material. Note that I don't count comments about being a favorite teacher, etc., because they don't have to love me to learn a lot from me. If I am doing my job right, my students will master the vast majority of relevant and important concepts, preparing them for the next level of learning that they will be required to address. I hope that at some point they will feel that they are more prepared to meet challenges because of concepts they mastered in my class, but thinking I'm a great teacher isn't something that factors into my consideration. Yes, they should learn to learn, which will make them more prepared to face life challenges, and with any luck, I will spark a desire to learn. However, even if they don't acknowledge a desire to learn, I will feel that I did a good job if they leave my classes better able to understand how to learn. Learning the process of learning greatly enhances all chances of future success, IMHO.
     
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  10. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I couldn't disagree more!
    Standardized tests are a terrible way of judging competency,
    For 10 years I taught a our district's lowest income school. We had such a high transiency rate, that by years end, I had only 2 or 3 students that I started the year with. It was very likely on the day before the tests, I could get 2 super low kids and have my two highest leave. The scores of every teacher in the school were in the toilet, yet some were the most amazing teachers I've ever seen.
    Then I moved to the highest income school and suddenly, I'm a great teacher. Half my class reads above grade level and the gym has scores of banners declaring the school as exemplary despite having a share of weak, unengaged teachers. Nearly all my students pass or exceed the state test.

    I'm the same teacher.

    Using standardized tests to evaluate teachers means all teachers in low income schools are less than teachers in high income schools. Not fair.
     
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  11. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    Apr 27, 2021

    Yes and no.
    As schools and tests currently function, yes. Standardized tests are a terrible way of judging competency. But I'm not convinced that's actually the test's fault.

    Part of the issue with standardized testing is that most teachers are not actually teaching knowledge that the tests assume students have (NAEP actually has a statement in their test information that says they've accounted for students' different background knowledge and the content in the reading test covers a wide range of topics to address that). You can argue this is a test issue; but I'm beginning to see it as an instruction issue. Read "The Knowledge Gap" by Natalie Wexler or "How to Educate a Citizen" by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., listen to/watch Robert Pondiscio's "57 Most Important Words in Education Reform" or Daniel Willingham's "Teaching Content is Teaching Reading."
    Many teachers, especially elementary teachers, simply are not teaching content knowledge. It's cultural, scientific, and historical knowledge that affluent students often have access to through parents or community resources or enriching family experiences that poor students don't have. Affluent students end up with a larger body of background knowledge to pull from, and standardized tests are designed with the assumption that students know certain things. Students who don't have that knowledge are left to their own devices, and have only been taught comprehension "skills" that cognitive science has shown to not be transferrable, teachable skills in the way we've been teaching them. Teaching a student how to identify the main idea and key details does absolutely nothing if they don't understand the content they're reading. Knowledge creates comprehension, not the other way around.

    I'm not saying we should "teach to the test." But would it actually be the worst thing to look at the specific content knowledge embedded in standardized tests and start there? Not skills, not standards, content knowledge. What topics are students assumed to know about on these tests? What vocabulary are they expected to understand? That's not a terrible starting place.

    I DO think that most standardized tests lose a level of reliability and validity when it comes to ELLs, however. Most of my students the past four years have been newcomers or code 1 ELLs, many of them with interrupted or limited schooling, but they're tested in English without accommodations. That is not a valid set of data, and of course they're going to perform at a lower level than their affluent, consistently educated, or native-English speaking peers. That's a different issue that does need addressed. Norm-referenced testing has its own set of issues in a country as diverse as the US, and it is distinctly biased against poor students of color, and especially migrant students who are still learning English.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
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  12. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    So guess Standardized Tests are testing the curriculum which teachers are given or make up themselves? It still also has to do with the amount of effort put in by the student. What the teacher teaches might not necessarily be picked up by the student for various reasons.
     
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  13. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    I think it’s a yes to your question?

    In my (admittedly limited) experience, elementary teachers tend to use standards devoid of specific content as their learning objectives. There may or may not be curriculum, but even the curriculum I’ve used or had access to tends to approach instruction this way as well. Standards become the end-all, be-all of instruction, but there’s no clear application of the skills they describe.

    The theory has been that students learn “comprehension” skills, like asking and answering questions or identifying the main idea, and then apply that to any content they encounter. Cognitive science is showing that this isn’t how we learn, and that comprehension is actually the result of a wide, solid foundation of background knowledge. Teach the stuff, and the skills follow somewhat naturally.
    But we don’t teach the stuff; we teach the desired outcome (the standards) without the necessary foundation (the content).

    The test assumes it’s been done the other way around, so it accounts for a wide range of knowledge that many kids, especially in high-poverty areas, now do not have. My state doesn’t really have social studies content until students are in 3rd or 4th grade. We have science because of NGSS, but it gets cut a lot and the NGSS standards are solid but not user-friendly. History, science, art, music, cultural literature or knowledge like rhymes, fables, etc. are hinted at but not taught deeply. However, those are the types of topics that tests include. We set kids up to fail by NOT teaching these topics.

    The tests don’t work because we’re not teaching knowledge, not because the tests are inherently bad or wrong. There will always be kids who don’t learn certain topics as solidly as others, but it still adds to a foundation of background knowledge that sets them up for success later on. For example, one of the 4th grade ELA standards is about vocabulary based on characters, like the word “Herculean”. You can teach Greek mythology in 4th grade, but that standard would be easier and more effectively mastered if students already have some exposure to mythology and heroes like Hercules prior to 4th grade.
     
  14. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Maybe you are, and maybe you aren't, but if you sparked the desire and ability to learn in those students who passed through your doors, I bet you have some great evaluations to counterbalance those standardized test scores. Admittedly, I have dealt more with grades 4 and above, which means I primarily teach the content that I am certified to teach. For me that includes science, ELA, and SS, so I've never really taught math, but I have taught some very low SPED students as their TOSD teacher. That's one reason I include those evaluations in my first response. I can absolutely tell if I have been able to move them forward in the content that I have been responsible for. Many great teachers serve students who will never go to college, but they will still contribute by fostering the belief in learning and the concept of how it can help them in their every day lives.
     
  15. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I might be wrong, but it seems you are blaming teachers for the learning problems caused by poverty. You think maybe if a teacher adjusted his or her teaching, it could make up for kids who move into a class just prior to testing or highly stressed children who have environmentally-caused learning problems.

    I'm now in a high income school. Mt kids come to school fed, loved and feeling secure. Their parents both have post-graduate degrees, read to their children and spare no expense to provide their children with nurturing experiences. The moment my kids enter the classroom, they are ready to learn.

    I'm the same teacher, but get vastly different results from when I taught in the high-poverty school. The problem wasn't that I didn't teach the right skills.

    Standardized tests measure things that are easy to test. They don't measure critical things like: Does the student love to read? Is the student learning how to complete assignments? and other far more important skills than the ability to distinguish between a hard and soft G sound on a multiple choice question.

    Standardized tests tend to compact the curriculum. If it's not tested, why teach it? This year our district isn't testing science. Should we not teach it? The reading test doesn't cover drama. So let's not teach students that art form. Who cares if they are not as literate as the rich kids? They don't need drama knowledge to swing a hammer.

    My hat's off to teachers who care for children in under-resourced communities. These teachers do not get the credit they deserve, and get blamed for the effects of poverty on test scores that really don't mean that much.
     
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  16. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I don't think that you will find many teachers who fail to understand the part that being under-resourced plays in creating problems that no one great teacher can fix. The SPED students that I help have a litany of problems, some of which might have been addressed much earlier if they lived in districts with more resources. By the time I get them in middle or high school, they have convinced themselves that learning is something for losers, because they have given up on themselves. They see lives lived full before they are thirty, with no real belief that they still have the power to change their own destinies.

    I won't lie - sometimes, no, often they break my heart. My job, however, is go back into that classroom every day with new ways to teach, in hopes of sparking some success they can claim for themselves, hoping that I can build on that. It is an uphill battle, and there are days that I think about walking away from it all. I get a good night's sleep, and go back to work the next day, hoping that my hours spent in front of my books or computer will arm me with newer strategies and renewed energy. I have taught at several different districts and know that money matters, but I don't think all good teachers are found in affluent districts. I know that whether or not I am a good teacher isn't measured in the size of my paycheck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  17. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    I'm not blaming teachers at all - but I do think there are ways teachers can adjust their instruction and practice to mitigate some of the detrimental effects of poverty. "Teaching With Poverty in Mind" by Eric Jensen is a great book on this. It's my job as a teacher to adjust my instruction based on evidence and the best information available so my students, including those in poverty, can learn.

    The sentence I've bolded is what I want to focus on -- it is GREAT that your students come to school ready to learn. Do students in poverty not deserve the best education possible just because they're not receiving those things at home? I know that's not what you're trying to communicate, but the reality is that plenty of students, even affluent students, don't come to school with their basic needs met. My job is to create a learning environment that addresses as many of those needs as I realistically can in order to ensure learning takes place.
    I can't fix poverty, I can't fix my students' home lives, I can't be personally responsible for feeding every student that comes through my classroom. And honestly, many low-income schools do a lot to address the reality that students might not have food at home. My school has breakfast in the classroom every day.
    What I can do is build positive relationships with students, create a safe, predictable, and supportive environment that fosters learning, and address the specific knowledge gaps my students have that may be connected to their circumstances. I can create enriching experiences within the classroom that teach the same knowledge and skills their affluent peers receive from their families or communities.

    I disagree with your assessment that love of reading is more important than distinguishing sounds. Many of my elementary students cannot distinguish sounds, and the research on reading is that systematic, consistent phonics instruction is FOUNDATIONAL for all reading. No child continues to love books if they can't read them. I absolutely want my students to love reading, but who cares how much they love books if they grow up functionally illiterate like over 20% of American adults?

    Love of reading is not an indication of literacy or success, and I don't need to test if my students love reading. I don't need a test to tell me if a student is learning how to complete assignments. That's a crucial life skill, but I don't need a standardized test for that. I do need tests and assessments to tell me what foundational skills and knowledge my students are missing. If that's a pre-made, standardized test - great.
    My goal is to avoid contributing to these statistics:
    The Nation:
    • In a study of literacy among 20 ‘high income’ countries; US ranked 12th
    • Illiteracy has become such a serious problem in our country that 44 million adults are now unable to read a simple story to their children
    • 50% of adults cannot read a book written at an eighth grade level
    • 45 million are functionally illiterate and read below a 5th grade level
    • 44% of the American adults do not read a book in a year
    • 6 out of 10 households do not buy a single book in a year
    The Economy:
    • 3 out of 4 people on welfare can’t read
    • 20% of Americans read below the level needed to earn a living wage
    • 50% of the unemployed between the ages of 16 and 21 cannot read well enough to be considered functionally literate
    • Between 46 and 51% of American adults have an income well below the poverty level because of their inability to read
    • Illiteracy costs American taxpayers an estimated $20 billion each year
    • School dropouts cost our nation $240 billion in social service expenditures and lost tax revenues
    Impact on Society:
    • 3 out of 5 people in American prisons can’t read
    • To determine how many prison beds will be needed in future years, some states actually base part of their projection on how well current elementary students are performing on reading tests
    • 85% of juvenile offenders have problems reading
    • Approximately 50% of Americans read so poorly that they are unable to perform simple tasks such as reading prescription drug labels
    (Source: National Institute for Literacy, National Center for Adult Literacy, The Literacy Company, U.S. Census Bureau)

    I think you're being facetious in that first paragraph; the (obvious?) answer is that we absolutely need to teach content regardless of whether it's tested or not. My initial point about testing was that they assume a wide and varied range of background knowledge, and test makers intentionally use a wide range of topics to account for the fact that different students know different things. My intention with that point was to emphasize the need for content knowledge instruction - something as simple as thematic units focused around science, history, art, music, etc., which currently doesn't really happen much at the elementary level. It especially needs to happen in high-poverty schools, because those are the students least likely to have access to that knowledge outside of school and thus not know it when it shows up on a test.

    The reality is that science and social studies really aren't tested as much as other content areas, so teachers tend to ignore them. This is a problem, because science and social studies end up on ELA tests, and students can't interact with the reading or questions in any meaningful way because they don't have the background knowledge. They may be able to answer literal comprehension questions, but many will do poorly because you can't answer questions about something you don't understand, and you can't understand something you don't have background knowledge to connect to. I can be the best decoder in the world, but if I have no context for what I'm reading, the words might as well be gibberish.

    Students in poverty deserve to learn just as much as affluent students, and they need the best teachers who are willing to learn more, look at the research available, and do better.

    I'm not blaming teachers for things outside their control; I'm asking them to learn how they can get the most bang for their buck in teaching students in poverty. And sometimes that means abandoning what's always been done in order to do better.

    Edit to add: I'm not really arguing for or against standardized tests. I think education has a lot of systemic issues that are highlighted by standardized testing, and some that are possibly caused by testing. My focus is more on the issues highlighted (but not caused) by testing. Tests aren't going away any time soon, and some highlighted issues are far beyond one teacher's scope of influence, but some are very much within my power to adjust and it's my responsibility to act accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  18. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I never said teaching sounds to emergent readers wasn't important - putting phonic test items on a standardized test is a waste of time. BTW: not all students learn to read using phonics. My own children did not have phonic lessons and entered kindergarten reading. Some students absolutely need phonics to learn to read, and a standardized test is a terrible way to determine which sounds a student hasn't mastered. The gold standard is to sit down and read a book or do another quick assessment with a student, then plan instruction.

    I had a district administrator tell me directly not to teach science and social studies since reading and math are what's tested. Some teachers have their students' test results figure into the employee evaluations and even their pay. You can't blame teachers for focusing just on what's tested. If "a love of reading" or "work completion" was tested, then it would become a priority and administrators and teachers would emphasize it.

    I agree that children in low income areas should have a full and robust curriculum, and not just the basic phonics and math concepts on the standardized tests.

    The fourth graders in our district had 4 days of testing then make ups. Prior to this, most teachers did lots of test preparations. If this time had been spent on rich, thematic units, the children would have received some benefit from those days. Instead, the results come back months after the test, so they aren't useful for planning or remediation. It's precious instructional time wasted. Here's what we learned from our tests: poor kids did poorly and middle and wealthy kids did well. We could have learned this from looking at zip codes.
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Well, yes. I can.

    Miss-m explained how science and history improve reading skills and science can help math skills. Your comment goes to prove that there are many teachers in your school system who do not understand how to educate children. They may know how to teach, but they do not know how to educate.
     
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  20. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    So what do you do when half the class has the appropriate skills and half the class doesn't. Even though they've been in the same district and same classes since they started school (unless a student has moved, etc.)? Do you dumb down the curriculum so the others can catch up?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  21. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    I'm feeling a little like you're almost willfully misunderstanding me, so I'm just gonna leave this alone except to say that 30+ years of cognitive science and educational research disagrees with you about phonics. Sure, kids can learn without phonics, but that doesn't mean it's a solid method that should continue to be used.

    The vast majority of students absolutely need phonics to learn how to read well.

    @TeacherNY - Personally, it would depend on which skills/knowledge is missing and to what extent. I wouldn't dumb down the curriculum, but I would be sure to provide opportunities to review, summarize, or explicitly teach to small groups those missing skills.
     
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  22. Peachpies

    Peachpies Rookie

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    The teaching profession is such a s-show. The fact that an administrator doesn't realize that half the test is nonfiction reading, that studying science and social studies directly impacts the test. That an administrator thinks reading science and social studies should be skipped, is quite hilarious and sad a the same time. However, this is the result of a system made up of opinions. Based on feel good feelings.

    How do you know if your a good teacher, "I am great, because it validates me, and makes me feel good." US education system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  23. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    How wonderful for you that you know the right way to teach!
     
  24. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Tyler, are you required to use a prescribed set of materials to teach reading? If not, why can't you use non-fiction science and history readings to support your reading and writing lessons as long as you are teaching reading? Sure, some standards need fiction, but not all.
     
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  25. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Well, that administrator was from central office. She hasn't been back. As far as I know, no one at my school stopped teaching social studies and science.

    The district bought a reading program, but it's a disaster. Instead of reading 2,000 to 6,000 words a day, it has us reading one of the little language-controlled stories each week. The rest of the time is supposed to be filled with workbooks and "skill" lessons. No one at fourth grade is using it. We use novels, poetry and drama for fiction, and content area reading for non-fiction. All this literature drives our writing program. I really love it and so do the students.
     
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  26. tuankiet153

    tuankiet153 Rookie

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    How do you know other teacher scores? Wouldn't teacher's student be confidential?
     
  27. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    How does this compare to the low-income, high transient district you were in?
     
  28. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I know the grade level scores. I know my scores, so it's not too hard to figure out about where the other teachers' scores fall.
     
  29. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    When I was teaching at the low income school, the district would periodically send down a "get tough" administrator. These people put test scores above all other considerations. It really impeded our progress and threw our "whole child" agenda out the window. In addition, the district would start new programs that involved tons of time in training and eat into our already diminished instructional time. We had meetings daily after school to try to keep up with the programs.

    The final straw came for me when one of these hot shot admins decided to ability group the entire school. My kids would be scattered all over the building for math and reading. Reading became pretty much pure test prep. Meanwhile, I'd been awarded state and national teaching honors, so other schools wanted me. I left my sweet, needy children to the wolves and moved to the upper income school. Still feel bad about that.

    At that new school, the principal brought in a cake and reporters to show the amazing staff that achieved our high test scores. It made me so angry. If that staff was so good, why not move them all to the low income school? Many would fail. They wouldn't understand how to teach children of poverty.
     
  30. Maapitambraacademy

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    May 15, 2021 at 12:10 PM

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