What do you think? "The end of public schools"

Discussion in 'General Education' started by DamienJasper, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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  3. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I’m not religious but... “This too shall pass.”

    No, it’s not the end of public schools.
     
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  4. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Now, as always, I'm curious if you have anything specific which leads you to that conclusion.
     
  5. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I only have anecdotal information from my local community... and a hunch, based on history, that this country doesn’t have what it takes to reform education so much so that public education would no longer exist.
     
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  6. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    OP, there will always be very vocal people trying to sell their ideas, and because they can get an audience in trying times, what they say may get seen by a larger audience. But just because someone writes about it doesn't make it true or more likely to happen. Call this one life experience perspective.
     
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  7. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Since this country was formed we have lived through countless critical time periods and many, many people claiming the world as we know it will come to an end.The first public school in the US was the Boston Latin School, established April 23, 1635. It is still operating today, so, no, public schools will not be ending. Different, maybe, but not gone.
     
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  8. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Well, I think the opposite is true. All Catholic schools in the New York Diocese just closed for good the last I heard. Could you imagine a public school district closing all of its schools? Teaching in a private school, I have seen attendance slip rapidly. For the first time in over 100 years over 90% of students in the United States will be attending a type of free public school (public or charter).

    Private schools are closing rapidly. I don't think public schools have to worry about them. The one thing is that charter schools are now far higher in enrollment than private school education in Arizona. Most are not very good, although there are a few good ones.

    Public schools ending? No way.
     
  9. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I hope so. Not just for schools but for other things like travel, events, and the economy. I live in a tourism driven area and worry that we may not make it back to “normal”, at least for a very long time. That said, it’s not worth opening early and risking lives.
     
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  10. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Dunno; am I the only one who has read about the huge rise in home schooling, virtual schools and those 'teaching pods'? It's like the profession is falling apart from all sides starting this year.
     
  11. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    But the need still exists for childcare, if nothing else. To be clear, I am 100% against schools being considered childcare. However, the situation exists that many parents are not able to stay at home to homeschool their children, even if they’d like to.
     
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  12. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Yes 2020-21 will be a unique year to put it mildly. This isn't a trend, but how parents are dealing with a pandemic. I don't think anyone should be surprised that homeschooling would go up in a pandemic. If anything we should be amazed at the high percent of parents who want to send their children back to school in a pandemic. Things will get back more to normal for schools when this pandemic is over.
     
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  13. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Duplicate post
     
  14. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Duplicate post
     
  15. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    If I still had a younger child or children, in this place and time, I might consider homeschooling, but only because I am qualified to teach. That said, I should point out that I like being paid to teach, so this would be a stop gap measure to provide a safer environment until a vaccine was readily available to protect me and my children. If I wasn't working, I wouldn't be able to afford to be part of a pod, where I pay someone, and in truth, homeschooling can be expensive in its own way. I would be waiting for the day that my son or daughter could once again be with friends, taught by a variety of highly qualified teachers using skills honed over time and experience. I would caution OP not to assume that what may result because we can't yet vaccinate and protect will become a norm. People sheltered in place when necessary, but quickly returned to frequenting old haunts as things opened up - so much so, that bars and eating in restaurants is still not widely practiced in many states. Once again, this is not because we don't want to do those things, but at this moment in time, it isn't wise or safe. It was said in a prior post that we are in the middle of a pandemic - not finished with it, or it finished with us. Things will remain strange to us for a while longer, I'm sorry to say, but we all long for normal to return, and I honestly believe that normal will be restored with time counted in months, not many years. If I could give a locked in stone time-table, I would, but I think we are still knee deep in this situation. We still see how many more cases and deaths there are every day - it stays on our mind. But I truly believe in the science of vaccines, and the ability to render harmless something that was the scariest thing we have ever seen.

    I do agree with Bella - this will pass, but we are only influencing the duration when we ignore recommendations that can help mitigate the spread of the disease right now. Believe the science, know that it is not very much to ask to say "wear a mask", "wash your hands often", "practice social distancing", "avoid risky behavior that can spread germs", and my favorite, "stay home if you are sick or exposed to someone who is sick." I have solid hope in great vaccines becoming available, so I truly can only see this as a momentary blip in history.
     
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  16. Pisces

    Pisces Companion

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    Can you site your source that "all Catholic schools in NY closed for good"? A quick google search isn't finding anything about this except various news reports from mid July saying 20 schools in the city closed due to low enrollment. On the Catholic diocese of NY school page (https://catholicschoolsny.org/), they don't say anything about this and are still enrolling students.
     
  17. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    It is not happening here.

    The only homeschooling parents are the ones who were already homeschooling and had been way before this. About a third of our parents enrolled their kids in virtual school, but it is still public school. They are only doing it because of current issues. They are not interested in it long term. Some of the parents I’ve talked with worry about their kids not having interaction with teachers.
     
  18. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

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    I'm not the poster, but here is the article I think the poster is referring to:

    The following Catholic schools will not reopen:
    • Corpus Christi School, Manhattan
    • Divine Mercy School, New Windsor
    • Holy Family School, New Rochelle
    • Nativity of Our Blessed Lady School, Bronx
    • Our Lady of Mt. Carmel-St. Benedicta School, Staten Island
    • Our Lady of Perpetual Help School, Pelham Manor
    • Our Lady of Pompeii School, Manhattan
    • Our Lady of the Assumption School, Bronx
    • Sacred Heart School, Suffern
    • St. Ann School, Yonkers
    • St. Elizabeth Ann Seton School, Shrub Oak
    • St. John’s School, Kingsbridge, Bronx
    • St. Joseph-St. Thomas School, Staten Island
    • St. Luke School, Bronx
    • St. Patrick School, Bedford
    • St. Paul School, Yonkers
    • St. Peter School, Poughkeepsie
    • Sts. Peter & Paul School, Staten Island
    • Sts. Philip & James School, Bronx
    • St. Thomas Aquinas School, Bronx
    Source: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-borough...ork-archdiocese-to-close-20-catholic-schools-

    To be fair, Catholic schools in many areas have been struggling for years. The pandemic was just the last nail in the coffin. Low enrollments, high tuition, less funding from each parish (which supplement each school's budgets) -- these closures have been coming closer and closer each year.

    EDIT and it is not ALL Catholic schools in NY, it is all Catholic schools in the Archdiocese of New York. There is a huge difference.
     
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  19. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

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    Damien,
    There is no "huge" rise in homeschooling. There is a rise in parents who will be keeping their children home and utilizing virtual learning -- but that is not the same as homeschooling. You also need to realize that typically, 60-70% of all parents who choose to start homeschooling their own children stop doing it within the same year (I'm sorry, I can't recall the source of this statistic.) Outside of the pandemic, there is no huge surge of home schooling, and once it is safe to go back to in-person learning, the tide will turn again. This is a survival response during a pandemic, not a cultural shift.

    First of all, most parents cannot afford to sacrifice one parent's earning potential once viable other options return.

    Of those who can afford it, many will find they are not well-suited to be homeschool teachers, and will use their financial means to find other alternatives, like private schools, as wealthier families have done for generations. No real change there. Others will find that their now-home-schooled children are not flourishing due to lack of social interaction, and for other reasons, and will choose to return them to public in-person schools as soon as it is safe to do so.

    Some families may discover that virtual schools work for them, but just as many will find it doesn't. Yeah, trusting your middle school student to be home alone for 3 days a week unsupervised sounds like a possible solution -- until you actually do it and they flounder because of lack of appropriate supervision. Parents of struggling students will find their students struggle even more.

    These changes are caused by the pandemic, and when it passes, things will settle back down. The vast majority of US parents need the structure, supervision, extracurriculars, and afterschool daycare that typical public schools afford, and as soon as they are available again, people will be back.

    As to "learning pods" it is a novel idea that will serve those who can afford it well as a temporary solution, but also realize that teachers who are doing this are sacrificing the security of a union job (in union states), health insurance benefits, retirement benefits, moving up in pay grade, career advancement, ongoing professional development required to maintain their certification, and the benefit of established curriculums etc. Some can manage this for a year or so, but eventually, the need will diminish for these pods, and the teachers who are doing this will have no reason to make these monetary sacrifices long-term. All those "benefits" we take for granted (health insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, tenure, advancement, professional development, processing certification renewals) all come to about 25% of a teachers salary. So even if a teacher can find a pod who will pay the same salary, she/her would have to earn 125% of their current salary just to keep the same income/benefit level. I personally self-pay for insurance right now, and most working people have no idea the real expense of doing that. I currently pay over $1,000 per month for my basic health insurance. So that means right there, I'd have to earn $12,000 over my current salary just to break even and that isn't a huge reality with people's jobs.

    Also remember that these pods, have "promised" payrolls for teachers. Two months in, what happens when half the parents (some of whom will lose their jobs and some of whom will take pay cuts) can't afford to make good on their pledges, and pay the amount promised? In public education, you have a contract. Even if you have a type of contract with a learning pod, after two months, they may not be able to make the teacher's payroll, and you can't collect from people who simply don't have the money. At least with public schools, they have the district or the state behind them (depending on where you live.)

    This to shall pass...
     
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  20. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I'll see if I can find it. I hope they were able to change their mind and keep some open. It was a few weeks ago.

    In the meantime here is an article by npr which says 100 Catholic schools will be closing this fall.
    https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/8968...catholic-schools-is-devastating-advocates-say
     
  21. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Thank you Rainstorm for posting this and clarifying it.
     
  22. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I got a very nice, quirky, inquisitive girl in the middle of the year last year who’d been home schooled for a few months. I sent her parents a general “welcome to the school” email and her mom replied something to the effect of, “Thanks so much. I have always had respect for teachers but after trying to homeschool I am amazed at what hard work it is to educate just one child. I can’t imagine being responsible for an entire class of them all with different needs. I was exhausted and we were so overwhelmed!” If only every parent could have that kind of experience, we’d get a lot more respect haha.
     
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  23. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    RainStorm,

    I appreciate your thorough reply.
     
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  24. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I heard of several Catholic schools in my area (not NYC) closing but they didn't say anything about ALL of them although that can change at any moment.
     

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