What do you do when kids misbehave in their special classes?

Discussion in 'Behavior Management' started by tinafirstgrade, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. tinafirstgrade

    tinafirstgrade Rookie

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    Apr 6, 2007

    What do you do when the specials teachers tell you all the bad things your children did while in their class? I have several students who need alot of work on their behavior. In my class they can be challenging but manageable. However, when they go to their specials, the teachers have a hard time handling them. And they always tell me about it, and I def. think I should be informed of this. However, shoudl I have a consequence in my class set up for this or should it be the special teacher resposibilty? I expect good behavior from the children but when they are in another teacher's classroom, shouldn't it be that teacher's repsonsibilty to "take care" of the situation immediately and give an immeditae consequence? I am just trying to get ideas and opinions on this matter. Thanks!
     
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  3. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    My whole class needs to be "managed." I have a punch card system for when they are in my class. I don't penalize them when I hear reports from other classes. For one thing, not every teacher will tell me so the reports will be uneven. For another, sometimes these teachers don't have the best classroom management system themselves. I do give them tips for some students on how to manage them better and what works. I talk with the students and tell them how displeased I was to hear a bad report. I let the specials people call the behavior specialists, write an incident report or anything else they need to do. I might suggest they email their parents and I tell them if they give them a punishment such as "5 min of recess" I will back them up and enforce it. Overall, I give the teacher suggestions and empower them to take care of it themselves. Then I let the student know that we talked and I know about the situation too (this helps sometimes).
     
  4. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I see my kids only for math, so this is an entirely uninformed opinion.

    But if the specials are being taught by teachers, isn't it their responsibility to keep order in their own classes??

    I can see a problem if a kid misbehaves for a sub, but a full time teacher needs to take responsibility for his or her own classes.
     
  5. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Wanna hear something sad? I'm the aide. :rolleyes:

    There are days I wanna say, "You are the **** teacher! YOU handle it." Or "Hello, I'm not the teacher, why are you talking to ME?" But I think most recognize that I'm the classroom management person in our class so they are comfortable telling me all these things. Like I said though, I offer advice to the teacher themselves more often than I will penalize the kids. I do talk to the kids though. Crazy situation isn't it!

    Most of the time I go with the flow and enjoy the compliment. Other times I want to shut down on all of them. I tell my teacher and she starts giving me breathing room for a few days. Ironically this is usually a few days before I start my period. ;)
     
  6. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    Apr 6, 2007

    We run into this problem at my school. Personally, I feel that the Specials teachers should deal with behavior problems that occur during their class. We are not allowed to keep our students back from Specials but we actually have some Specials teachers who kick students out of their Specials class and then expect the classroom teacher to keep these students during their planning time. I think that if they cannot handle a problem with a student then they should contact administration like the classroom teacher does.

    If it is a major problem and the Specials teacher does not deal with it appropriately (other than tattling to me) I will step in but I don't deal with it in front of the Specials teacher because I do not want then to think that I will deal with all of their problems.
     
  7. grade1teacher

    grade1teacher Companion

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    Apr 6, 2007

    I believe that each teacher - specials and all - should definitely have their own system for managing their classes. After all they may be my students but during YOUR CLASS, I'm not there so how in the world am I supposed to manage YOUR classroom??
    On the other hand I see nothing wrong with the specials teachers asking me what works with certain students - that is called collaberation!
    Heres what works for me: I tell the students and specials teachers (when they ask for advice), that these specials are a PRIVALIGE as are many exciting things in my classroom. You don't obey the ruless, you don't get the privalige. You don't go by the rules in gym class, you sit out (you decide on the length of time). you don't obey the rules in art, you sit out. My students LOVE specials, so they avoid this at all times. This way, the consequence comes from that teacher, and it is at her discretion.
     
  8. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    I've noticed that some specials teachers are afraid to give any punishing type discipline in their class because they barely see the student and they don't want them to dislike the class. Sometimes this gets in the way of effective classroom management. I definately think they should have their own system. I don't giving tips (like you said..collaboration), but I think they should fill out an IR, call admin, or whatever. I don't need to take care of it except for my student to know that I know and wasn't pleased. I had a PE teacher tell me, don't send the students if they are having a bad day. Do you think I listened to that. Hmm...NOPE.
     
  9. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I know what you mean.

    As I've been saying, for the past 2 months a new teacher has had my 7th graders while I've subbed in Precalculus. From what the 7th graders have been telling me in my new cafteria duty, it didn't go well with the new teacher. So once or twice I've pulled the ringleaders aside and given them the speech.

    "Rich, you and I both know YOU know who is making the animal noises in math. Tell him I SAID to cut it out."
    "But Mrs A, it wasn't me, it was Jimmy."
    "I don't care Rich, tell him I said to STOP"
    then,in the hallway:

    "Jimmy, you and I both know that you're the one making the animal noises in math. Cut it out, and I mean NOW!"
    "BUt Mrs. A, how did you know it was me???"

    :D :D
     
  10. Momzoid

    Momzoid Companion

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    Apr 6, 2007

    I have two students who will do anything not to go to art! Its only every other week and they beg not to go. One of the boys will go so far as to hit another student just before art so he goes to the office and NOT to art. I'm ready to take them both to the principal for a spanking BEFORE art just to get it over with and make them go!:D
     
  11. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Gotta wonder what they're learning in Art!!!
     
  12. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    That's so cute Alice!!!

    Actually another thing that irks me is cafeteria duty. I do not need to hear my kids are unruly in the cafeteria every single day by whoever is on duty that day. First of all, you are all teachers and aides, so you have the ability to quieten them just as well as I do. I don't have that kind of problem. I have reported ONE person to their teacher during lunch duty this entire year. Think about it.

    What's funny is one day I gave one of my students lunch detention. I've never done it. It's not my role. It's the behavior consultant's role. She was extremely busy with 5th grade and when I approached her and saw that she was overwhelemed, I said "nevermind, I'll take care of it." I didn't discuss how, but I did warn her afterwards to make sure it was appropriate. You know what she told me? Thank You! She said many teachers don't have good classroom management skills and call her at the drop of the hat. (mostly upper grades). I was administering the state test one day in their room and a boy was playing around. I would have walked over, used my body presence and my teacher stare. The teacher said, "do you want to see Ms. Behavior Consultant? Then stop it." This was after he let it go on for a bit while he was talking even though he saw it. That bothered me.
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Apr 6, 2007

    Authority is like candy.

    There's only so much authority in the world. Every time you give a little of yours away, you're left with a bit less.

    So I rarely write referrals, give school detention or send the kids to the dean-- unless it's something major.
     
  14. Momzoid

    Momzoid Companion

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    Apr 7, 2007

    I guess I should mention that the art teacher is a former drill sargent. He makes them behave!:D However this one boy will push the limits and sometimes it better to remove him than disrrupt what little time the class has. We are talking to his grandmother and may have her come in just for that class to see what he does.
     
  15. MsWK

    MsWK Habitué

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    Apr 7, 2007

    Momzoid, does your principal really give spankings? Not trying to start a debate, just curious. When I was in elem. in Tennessee, our principal reportedly had "a paddle." I never had the chance to find out! :)
     
  16. Teaching Grace

    Teaching Grace Connoisseur

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    Apr 7, 2007

    Try an individualized plan for each child. I have a student in my student teaching who has a folder that he carries everywhere with him. Each teacher he goes to has to fill it in, even if it's just with an 'ok' that he was good. Most of the time (unfortunately) that's not what is being written down though. I'm hoping that it'll get better. There are issues at home with his mother coming bacck into the picture a lot. Plus he got to see one of his siblings he hasn't seen in a very long time about 2-3 weeks ago. Hope you find somethign that works!
     
  17. Momzoid

    Momzoid Companion

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    Yes my principal does spank. However, he does know most of the families at our school, he goes to church with several of them and is related to quite a few. It's a real neighborhood school, but a Title I school. The boy I mentioned earlier, his grandmother introduced herself to the principal and told her grandson that if he misbehaved the principal was to whip his a**. And if the principal did not, she was going to come and whip the principal's a**! That was the quote from the principal.:eek:
     
  18. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Apr 9, 2007

    Is that legal???
     
  19. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Terp it is still legal in some states. I didn't know that until AtoZ. Amazing how different things are across the good ole USA.
     
  20. Momzoid

    Momzoid Companion

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    In Alabama it is legal to spank. But most school boards will not support you if you do so. I personally will not spank even though I have been tempted.
     
  21. January_Violet

    January_Violet Comrade

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    Apr 12, 2007

    Nothing.

    I use to early in my career but I don't do anything now because these people are certified professionals who need to impose their own consequences.

    The infraction happened under their care. I do encourage the students to follow all school rules but I do not try to govern anyone else's class.


     
  22. January_Violet

    January_Violet Comrade

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    Apr 12, 2007

    :D
     
  23. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    That's it in a nutshell:D
     
  24. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    YEP! That's it. The question is, how do you make the teachers see about their own specials class?
     
  25. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I don't think it's up to you to do that. I think it's the job of the principal or AP.

    When they complain, ask "What does ____ think of it?" Dump it right back onto their own laps.
     
  26. January_Violet

    January_Violet Comrade

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    I don't think I have an answer to that one. However, the specials teachers here know that I do not want to hear about the infractions that happened under their care. I let them know that I will not be imposing any consequences to any students regarding something that happened in their class.

     
  27. January_Violet

    January_Violet Comrade

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    That's it.

     
  28. musicteach

    musicteach Companion

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    Apr 12, 2007

    This is an interesting debate from a specials teacher point of view. I do sort of take offense to the comments about specials teachers not have good classroom management--I think that is a pretty broad comment to make about all specials teachers. I feel that I have good control of my music classes. I have a management plan and stick to it. I do not expect the classroom teacher to discipline students for things that happen in my classroom, however, if a student has a major behavior problem in my class I inform the teacher about it, because usually a consequence I have given such as losing recess is involved and the teacher needs to know about it. The teachers know that if I take away recess, they are more than welcome to send the student to me during that time instead of handling it. Likewise the teachers like to hear compliments about their class in my room, so I try to give compliments as much as possible if earned...I think it makes a nice balance-The teachers respect me and in return the students learn from their teacher that I am to be respected as a teacher (not a babysitter-heaven forbid). Anyway, I see both sides of it...some teachers expect their students to behave and if they are given consequences in my room, those teachers double the consequence. Other teachers let me handle the situation completely. I'm fine with either way, but keep in mind that specials teachers are teachers too, and DO need the collaboration with homeroom teachers when it comes to student behavior to provide a consistency of what is expected of the students. I think it is important that classroom teachers show support towards the specials teacher without actually handling that teacher's discipline issues. I find that the teachers who do show that support (for example, before leaving my room making a comment like, "I'll be looking forward to hearing good things about this class when I come to pick you up from music class") have the most well-behaved classes, because the students know that the teacher regards the specials class as a class and not just a place to drop the kids off during plan time.

    I hope that makes sense---I'm tired and feel like I just spouted a bunch of random thoughts! :)
     
  29. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    That makes complete sense to me.

    You've stated that you're a professional and wish to do your own job. And that, of course, professionals collaborate and back each other up.

    My impression from the original post was that those things weren't happening with a particular specials teacher.
     
  30. trayums

    trayums Enthusiast

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    As a former music teacher turned elementary classroom teacher I can see both sides of the coin here. I, for one, had pretty good classroom management as a music teacher but would follow up with the classroom teacher so that she/he was aware of what was going on. However, many things were handled "in house". I would call parents, I would email them, enforce consequences etc. It's really hard to be a specialist and I think a lot of people do not think that because it's seen in many cases as planning time. The teacher comes in, drops the kids off and runs away. However, that said... I am having a very hard time with the art teacher at my school. She complains to me every single time I go to pick my children up from her room about how awful this one or that one was or how chatty they were etc. I always, always, always prepare my students for her class and we talk about what they can do to make good choices in the art room and be respectful artists etc. But... they are second graders and they are chatty and they are kids. I am really getting tired of her complaining and so it has come to the point where I barely even let her come up and talk to me about it. She may begin to tell me about it and I'll look at her and say thank you for telling me, call the parent. I think she is getting a tad irritated when I say that, but it's HER classroom. HER rules. HER consequences... Grrr...
    so like i said, now when she comes up to me to report on the baddies of the day, I simply nod my head and say "Call the parents".
    Like I said, I can see both sides of the coin here as I have been in both situations. It's hard on both ends.
     
  31. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    I think specials teachers, like middle school and high school teachers, have so many students and for such a short period of time. Sometimes it is hard for them to know all the tricks of the trade for each child. I have no problem with them wanting some tips. I admire them if they ask for it (rather than complain constantly). I also have no problems with teachers who report problems sparingly. I also know some awesome specials teachers and think that I could learn from them. I like it when they evaluate their system as a whole and try to come up with good strong ways to engage the students and apply preventive maintence. Then there are others who are just overwhelmed with it and expect students to come in and be willing to be molded without looking at the structure they need to be provided beforehand. General educators can be lacking in classroom management skills as well but they have more time to learn their students (especially for the younger crowd). They also have more time to get the support they need from our behavior specialist or our principal if needed.

    I won't impose restrictions on students who misbehave in specials. I will follow through though if they want to give them time out at recess or something similar (only happened once). I encourage them to do whatever they think is necessary to help impose discipline and order in the classroom. Some feel they can't be "mean." Being firm and respecting the rest of the class' desire to learn is not being mean. They don't have email contacts so my teacher will write home on their behalf if needed. I also will take them in the hall and explain to them that I know what happened and that I was displeased. I will talk to them about how they can do better next time. I will not impose further consequences because I don't know how much is the child or if there was a lack of clear structure needed. I also don't want to punish one child just because the teacher told when another child was just as bad in another room but that teacher didn't tell.

    My favorite thing though is when I share with other teachers and they tell me my student doesn't have the problem I assume they are having, I immediately ask how they manage that. I want to learn from them too!

    What totally amazes me is that the teaching programs in this area, for deaf ed, do not require a classroom management class!

    What else totally amazes me is I don't have a teaching degree and I am the teacher aide, but yet all the teachers come to me about problems with our students. I have learned a tremendous amount about classroom management this year through the sink or swim method. I have so much more to learn and I am taking that class whether it is required or not!
     

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