What do you do when a "regular" teacher starts reprimanding your class?

Discussion in 'Substitute Teachers' started by Lindager, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Lindager

    Lindager Companion

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    Dec 18, 2010

    I know I am new and inexperienced and most of the time these "regular" teachers are just trying to help. :|But!! Sometimes I feel they are further undermining my athority and effectiveness when they come in or over or up and start yelling at my class. Now yes there have been times when I have lost control of the class, but that is my problem and I need to get the control back and I am still learning.

    Yesterday we had a special day and the kids had to return to Homeroom after 8th period so we could have an activity. Now it was friday the week before Christmas, we still have school until 1PM thursday but any friday last period can get a little wound up.:woot:

    I had a homeroom with about 25 kids probably half of them special ed. They were a little roudy, but they were settling in and I was just getting ready to give directions. I had 2 aides in the class and we have worked together before and we all get along well. The Spanish teacher was at her desk in the back of the room trying to do some work. Before I had a chance to settle everyone down she stands up and yells at the whole class to quiet down and listen.:eek: Then we listened to the announcement over the PA and the kids started talking again about the assignment (They were only writing letters to Santa to raise money for the make a wish foundation). Again this teacher stands up and starts to berate the students telling them they have interupted her work, she even had the nerve to say "You should be under control you have 3 teachers in here". Well we felt they were under control they were doing the assignment they were also having fun (that was part of the plan). The kids got very quiet and did there letters. When all were done I had to let the office know and then wait for an announcement to come to the Gym. Most of the kids were done with time to spare and were getting really ansy and louder while they were waiting.

    Eventually I let the kids get up put up the chairs and line up quitely at the door. When we were finally called to the gym I told them to stay in line and be quiet in the hall. We just got out the door and some were a little excited I had not had time to catch up and quiet them down when another teacher comes along and yells at them. I was totally frustrated by this time. When we got to the gym my little group of 7th graders were probably the quietest ones there. Then the 6th graders all walk in together yelling a spirit chant at the top of their lungs.

    I just felt like these other teachers had belittled my aides and myself. We did not feel the students were out of control and new it should be an exciting time.

    I know I write really long post, but my question is am I wrong to be offended by this and what can I do to kindly(one of these teachers is the one everybody is afraid of) ask these teachers to let me handle it without sounding ungrateful for their help and having them make sure I never come back???????:help:

    edit; I am sorry my spelling stinks when I am writing stream of thought
     
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  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Dec 18, 2010

    Yes it's embarrassing to have others correct your class...your class might be a bit rowdy, but you need to get and maintain control. You don't want the reputation as the sub who has no control. Tighten up. If the kids aren't listening or are disrespectful, not following directions, institute some consequences. Start Monday.
     
  4. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    We have this one after school teacher and she thinks that she has her group under control. No, she does not. They are TOO loud and TOO wound up and they take advantage of her. Yet, she thinks she is doing a wonderful job keeping them in order.

    Now, I'm not saying you are bad like she is. But, perhaps you need to look at your group from the outside point of view. Maybe pretend a principal was to walk in on your class. Do you think they would approve?

    I've taught kindergarten before so I KNOW how excited kids can get, especially right before Christmas vacation. I would tell my kids how I understood their excitement and that they are allowed to be as excited as possible, as long as they continued working quietly. I would monitor and remind them of the volume they needed to be at.

    Plus, as a sub, you need to be a bit more strict than any of the regular teacher's around, especially if you want to get noticed as a wonderful teacher. Regular teacher's already have a contract, probably tenure. They probably already proved that they are great teachers and have a good reputation. You still need to create your reputation.
     
  5. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Dec 18, 2010

    I know that not everyone agrees with me on this one, but I don't think she should have been in the class. YOUR class was in there; she should have done her work elsewhere.

    It's only "her" desk when there's not someone else's class in there. It was "YOUR" desk while your class was there.

    That said, I'm sure you'll learn to get the kids more under control as you gain experience.
     
  6. jen12

    jen12 Devotee

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    Dec 18, 2010

    Ugh...I hate that.

    I had a situation one time where I was working a half-day. I had to take the kids to the lunchroom, and then I was done. When I took the kids, I led the across the basketball court, not knowing that they had a procedure of going around the court. Some of the kids followed me, others went the way they knew to go. It only lasted about ten feet before a kid corrected me. Unfortunately, in that time another teacher noticed and chewed all the kids out for not staying in line.

    So...I got the kids to the lunchroom, went back to the classroom to get my stuff and when I went to the office to check out, their regular teacher was there, and she told me she'd already heard that the kids had been unmanagable for me. Sheesh!!! News travels fast!

    So, I don't know what to tell you. The hardest part is that everyone has different expectations for what is allowable behavior. Some teachers are perfectly fine with the "work noise" and others require complete silence. Some teachers have classes that are regularly out of control and the others at the school know this and make a point of looking out for the sub. And of course there are others who are just out of line and won't let you do your job. Don't let it bother you. Yes, it undermines your authority, but unless its a situation where you're regularly dealing with the same teacher who does it to you every time you're at her school, I'd let it go.
     
  7. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    Dec 18, 2010

    Sorry that happened. Of course, on the other end of the spectrum, the last sub that came for my team member would open my door and ask me to get the class to be quiet. (Never mind that I am teaching....really????????????, but I did. Of course, that totally undermined her authority, but it was her choice.) Anyway, after about the 4th time I despaired of having a normal week. I don't think she will be asked to return.

    I think that if this teacher was trying to help, she could have asked you if you needed assistance, and you could have said, No, but are they louder than normal? This would allow you to gauge the norm. As a sub, it is hard to know what is the regular vibe of a school. Perhaps you tolerate more than they do??? Or perhaps she was just rude???? Either way, you'll know they like absolute quiet for future reference.
     
  8. Lindager

    Lindager Companion

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    Dec 18, 2010

    Thank you for the replies. I need to clarify a little. I know this school and these kids very well, I have subbed here for 3 years now and it is a small school 6-8 only about 175 kids. They were not being overly loud and it was a special activity period. At least one student in the class is autistic, at least 7 are ADHD and another 6-7 are learning disabled. It was a homeroom not a regular class and I did not expect complete silence as long as they were getting the letter written.

    As a matter of fact I knew these kids better then the "regular " teacher, she does not have most of them and I taught all of them from April to June last year.

    My main issue is that "regular" teachers don't give me or other subs a chance to get the kids under control or even try. It is natural for kids to test the limits with a sub. I have many methods of regaining control and they have worked fine when another teacher wasn't around.

    I guess I am saying how do I get them to back off and give me a chance. I have never had a teacher I subbed for complain about me not getting the work done. I just find it more conducive to allow them to talk sometimes. I have also had classes working so quietly the Principal was impressed and said so. I believe you have to know when to pick your fights. Am I wrong??
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Dec 18, 2010

    This might be unpopular, but I have reprimanded a sub's class on two occasions. Both times, the class was very clearly out of control. If the sub can't control the class, it isn't just the sub's problem; it becomes my problem too. It's a problem for me when I can't teach because I'm listening to a loud, rowdy class next door, or when students in the sub's class are walking out of the classroom across the hall and dicking around in the hallway, being loud and disrupting my class. If the sub can't handle it, then I will.

    I don't know whether this teacher's actions were warranted, but I do know that you need to learn to get things under control and keep them that way. Subbing isn't easy, but you need to figure out how to manage a class, or else you will never be called back to sub.
     
  10. hac711

    hac711 Companion

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    Dec 18, 2010

    We are hired to do a job. It isn't another teacher's job to come in and "help". Please, stay in your rooms. We don't need your help. If it is so bad, call an administrator down, but please, stay in your own rooms.
     
  11. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    I agree. My class is in a storage room this year while we are underconstruction. My room is off the gym and connected to the bathrooms. When the children are in control, it is still loud in my room. So if you sub next door, I will come and control your class if you can't get them undercontrol. Not because I want to take your power, but because my students deserve to learn in an environment that meets their needs.
     
  12. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Oh, my room doesn't have an intercom. So in order to call the principal down, I have to go to the office and leave my room unattended...not happening. Do the job, or don't accept anymore jobs subbing. I don't want to spend time control another class, but I want my students to learn.
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    While it can be embarrassing to have another teacher reprimand a class in front of you, like Ceaser said, sometimes it can't be helped. At our school, we are ALL here to work with the kids and to monitor their behavior. So, if I see kids in line not behaving, I usually give them the teacher look, whether they have a sub or not. That's how a lot of schools I've worked at are like.
     
  14. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    A couple of years ago, the grade 8 class I supported was horrible for a sub (so much so that by partway through the year, I took over the class if the teacher was away and the sub did my job). I made it a point of stopping in the doorway whenever I went past the room to make sure the students knew that they needed to keep themselves under control. If we know that there is a sub in a difficult class, we make sure that someone "checks in" several times during the day; it isn't about not trusting the sub, it's about making sure that the day goes as smoothly as possible for everyone.
     
  15. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    You don't want an administrator coming to your room to manage behaviors. Yes, you are hired to do a job and most subs do that job well...but when a class is being disruptive to the point that someone in another room is disturbed, it's a problem...you may not think that it is a 'regular teacher's job' to jump in and 'help', but it is. Maintaining a safe climate that is conducive to learning is everyone's job.
     
  16. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Dec 19, 2010

    Every school is different, but, if a sub had a class that was perceived to be out of control, and we did nothing - we would be reprimanded by our principal. Our school is set up in "wings". When there is a sub on our hall our principal expects us to help make sure the kids are in control and working. We know there will be more noise with a sub - that is to be expected. However, if that noise gets out of control, then we are expected to say something. I've only walked into a classroom once, with a sub there, to get the class back under control. When that room is down the hall, their door is closed, my door is closed, and they are disturbing my class - yes, I will say something. As a teacher, if a sub doesn't have control of my class, I would expect another teacher to step in. I have never had that problem, but I subbed before teaching. From day 1 I set the expectation for behavior with a sub in the room. They know what will happen if I get a bad report from the sub or another teacher. Not all teachers set that expectation.
     
  17. jen12

    jen12 Devotee

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    This is true. I subbed once in a middle school where the kids were just horrid. When I asked them if they act that way for their regular teacher, they told me yes, because she lets them. I told them that they weren't going to act that way with me, and threatened detention, and the response I got was a lot of snarky comments about how each one couldn't stay after school that day. Anyway...a few minutes later, the teacher in the adjoining room popped her head in and made the same threat, to which they were all silent. That same teacher told me at lunchtime that it wasn't my fault, that their regular teacher had no control.

    So, you see, we can throw the blame each way. The truth is the kids will play whomever they can play.

    In the case of the OP, it sounds like this is a regular spot where everyone knows everyone. This other teacher may have just had a stricter expectation, or she may have just been in a mood where she didn't want to put up with much that day.
     
  18. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Were the kids disturbing another teacher's class? No.
    Were the kids leaving the room and wandering the hallway? No.
    Were the kids being too loud in the room? That seems debatable.
    Were the kids out of control? Not from what I've read, but some posters have told the OP to "get the class under control or we'll do it for you" while listing actions that are completely unrelated to what was actually happening to justify their response.

    Frankly, I agree with a previous poster who suggested the Spanish teacher was the one that should have been using another room, since she had no class in the room at that time.

    So her class was not being disrupted, since it wasn't even being taught. Her work might have been disrupted, but there is some question about whether she should have been working in that room during a "homeroom period" to begin with. Sounds to me like the kids weren't really out of control, but were just louder than the Spanish teacher liked. If she decides to make them quiet down because SHE doesn't like the noise level, that doesn't mean the class is actually out of control. It just means they've exceeded her personal tolerance level at that time.
     
  19. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    OK, OP, now I get your question!!

    The best way to deal with Spanish teacher, imo, is to simply say, "You know, the other day when I was subbing, I noticed you felt disturbed by the class' activity and sound level. Since it was meeting my objectives, I wonder if in the future you would mind working in a different room since we both know if you correct the class while I am there, you would be making my job harder. I would not correct your class while you were there either, as it would diminish your effectiveness..." Then, see what she/he has to say....
     
  20. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    When I subbed, my rules on classroom behavior preceded me. Unless there was a test going on, there could be light chatter as long as the students could hear me if I talked in a "teacher voice" so they could stop talking to listen for instruction. In addition, if the volume raised to the point that it brought in another teacher or administrator, the classroom would be silent for the rest of the period. It only took the reputation of disappointing me once for me to never need help again.
     
  21. Lindager

    Lindager Companion

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    I did not mean to start an argument

    I love this forum.:hugs: I have never had so many other teachers I could discuss things with. It really helps to see things from the other side sometimes. In my situation on friday I think it was just the case of a teacher who had a bad day. She did not know what to expect from his type of activity. I do work in a very old school parts of it are over 100 years old. The sound does not travel between classrooms, but a noisy class above you totis very disruptive.

    I have never allowed a class to stay disruptive, I guess that was part of my question, at what point is it time to intervene? On friday we had not really had a chance to settle in and it was not really a "quiet" activity.

    I don't think giving a sub 5-10 minutes to get a class completely under control is to much to ask. It doesn't happen with every class, but some are a little hard to settle in. At the end of a long day a class woth a lot of hyper kids is extra hard especially when they come into your room all worked up from the last class.

    I do see the "regular" teachers point of view, you need to get your class working, but you also have to understand some kids see a substitute and say Yes I can sit and do what I want we have a substitute she can't do anything. With no prior knowledge of this student and his/her issues it can take a few minutes to find what works with this kid. So please understand Subs are walking into "a new class" every dayome days 7 times a day. We need a few minutes to take the bearings of the room. If after that we still don't have control, then your help is probably appreciated.

    By the way I have been subbing for 3 years and I have gotten great reviews and references from both teachers and administrators. Some days you just have a wound up classand it takes extra effort to get them under control. Please don't tell me I should get out of subbing, there are far to many subs that don't care about the kids or the classwork they are just trying to make a buck while they are unemployed. The good subs need to learn things, you could help us by talking to us in teachers lounges and hallways and not treating us like outcast. SometimesI feel like the "real teachers" at some schools resent subs, we are just trying to help and the good onesneed a little encouragement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  22. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I'm not trying to be harsh, but I don't think that you're looking at this event from the perspective of the regular classroom teacher, the students, or the admin. You're looking at it from the perspective of a sub. Yes, it's true that subs face special challenges; we all would agree with that. The thing is, you need to be able to manage a classroom in spite of those special challenges.

    In particular I think I take issue with the statement that I quoted. From the perspective of a sub with no real or permanent vested interest in my class, 10 minutes is hardly any time at all. From the perspective of a teacher, administrator, or student, however, 10 minutes is a long time to not have control of a class. It's like 20% of my class period. Losing 20% of instructional time is a big deal to me. My students deserve better than that.

    You mentioned in your original post that the Spanish teacher told the class to be quiet and listen during an announcement over the PA. If your class was so loud that the announcement would not have been heard, and if you weren't able to quiet the class in time for the announcement, the Spanish teacher had an obligation to say something to your class. Announcements are important and they must be heard by everyone. For example, if a student misses the announcement that there is no basketball practice today and then doesn't get on the bus because he thinks that he's got practice, he might not have a way to get home. Per the admin at my school, teachers can get into big trouble for failing to ensure that their students have clear access to announcements.

    Yes it's possible that this teacher was out of line and quick on the trigger to reprimand your class. Please understand, however, that most teachers are trying to do the right thing for students. If she legitimately felt that her intervention was better for the students, then her actions were warranted even if they were unwanted.

    You might consider looking into start-of-class procedures to help find solid ways to begin class without allowing 10 minutes of wasted time.

    Good luck to you!
     
  23. azure

    azure Companion

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    OH, IMO this is a very bad idea, and around here might even get you banned from that building. As a sub I would never say such a thing to a regular teacher.

    I always appreciate another teacher helping out to quiet a class, and I don't take it personally. They know how kids take advantage of subs.

     
  24. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    I appreciate your view point. It is sad to think that you could not be treated as a professional that could openly discourse about disagreements. If you came and subbed in my building, you could feel free to express your views. :cool: So, be advised, my advice could be off target.:cool:
     
  25. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

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    Dec 21, 2010

    This will likely guarantee that you will not work in this class again.
    Although it might be the right thing to do, most teachers would probably resent requests to leave their own room.
     
  26. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    If that is her work area, then I'd have to agree. It isn't fair for her to move to another room or to the teacher's lounge or to take her work home with her. The after school program used to meet in my room and there were many times when I had to intervene because it would become unbearably loud in there, to the point where I really couldn't think.
     
  27. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    I don't think anyone would dispute intervening when you see out-of-control behavior. But as we all know too, teachers are control freaks...

    I sub at one school regularly, and I'm regarded as one of the best subs basically. But still, I'll have a teacher come in, and undermine my ability as a teacher to try and exert themselves over my class by intervening and commenting, even though I have no problem with the class' behavior at the time. That kind of stuff happens, and I disagree with it.

    When I (as a credentialed teacher) walk into another teacher's room, I don't go in and comment (unless it's a good comment--"your class is very well-behaved"). I would expect the same courtesy the other way.
     
  28. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Wow. That's an interesting assumption.
     
  29. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    I would be furious if I was teaching and another teacher came in and told my class to quiet down. If there is a problem with my class quietly say something to me. Teachers need to respect each others authority there is only so much to go around. It also gets me when teachers criticize their colleagues in front of the class. If a student comes to complaint to you in private about a particular teacher that is fine, but never allow your class to do so.
     
  30. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    Is it untrue? If people here are objective, I think they'd agree that teaching tends to largely attract the "Type A" personality.
     
  31. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    :lol: Pretty much every teacher at my school is SO not the type A personality, but it just may be my school. I would say that there are three of them.
     
  32. StellatheSub

    StellatheSub Rookie

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    It doesn't happen very often any more, but a month and a half ago, my students were noisy in the hall when getting in to their lockers and a teacher reprimanded them. I was very embarassed and apologized profusely. She was real cool about it once I apologized and said that she would expect me to do the same thing if her class was loud.
     
  33. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    I'm about as far from "Type A" as you can get! :lol:
     
  34. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Dec 22, 2010

    I will talk to any students who are being noisy and disruptive in the hall--regardless of who their teacher is. We all need to take responsibility for all students in our schools, not ignore misbehaviour because the students aren't "ours".
     

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