What accommodations are realistic in middle school and above

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Bibliophile, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    hello everyone, I have an upcoming iep meeting for my son soon because this year things aren't going well. Things had been going so well the last 2 years that there had been talk of exiting him but now this year that is obviously not going to happen. In prior Iep and bsp' there were a lot of great accomidations but I know that they were so extensive they were hard for teachers to follow in a self contained class. Now in middle school I think that 1/6 of his teachers would actually follow such a plan. So as we look into going back to a comprehensive plan what do you think is reasonable so I can expect it to be followed.

    At little back ground skip this if want- Three years ago his tourettes was pretty bad so we were making some changes to his ADHD meds to see if that would help and it not only didn't help his tourettes but it made him into a different person. It was horrible, he was out of control, emotional, physically sick, unable to sleep more than 2-3 hours a night, unable to eat without pain and nausea, and very quick to serious anger. During this time he was also in a job share class with 1 teacher on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday that was great and a different teacher in Thursday and Friday who was awful. We finally got his medication situation under control but he had fallen horribly behind and he had picked up some bad behaviors during this time like refusing to do his work (t/th teacher had set him in back and let him play games on his iPad all day so he wouldn't bother her) he was having outbursts when things didn't go his way, He didn't know how to do the work at all by his point (imagine a struggling third grader walking into fourth grade near the end of the year- that what is was for him academically) and he was no pleasure to have in class becuase of it. He also refused to go to resource since the teacher was mean to him (she insisted in our iep team meeting that he didn't have tourettes, he just liked to annoy people by making noisee and taping on things and he was disrespectful and rolled his eyes all the time. I told her the eye rolling was in fact an uncontrollable tic, as was the tapping and noises and just becuase these things annoyed people didn't mean that he was doing it on purpose and if she wasn't a pediatric neurologist she was really in no position to claim that she was more qualified to make a diagnosis than his specialist).

    The behaviorist created a great plan with numerous accomidations and concessions that allowed him to do only 25 % of the work with rewards and breaks for when he did that much and praise and acknowledgment every 3 minutes (the teacher wore a vibrating timer to remind her to praise him every 3 minutes that he was working and behaving) and many other things. Then the year was over and some improvement had even made. We worked all summer to catch him up. New year new teacher she said he didn't need the plan.


    From day 1 he completed 100% of the work and, though he wasn't the easiest kid (no kid with tourettes, ADHD, OCD, sensory disfunction and disgraphia is going to be) he was going to be fine. Then Last year he was on honor roll all year and he had no behavior problems. He had fantastic teachers and personality and teaching style wise it was a lot of perfects fits. Yeah all better!

    Not so fast!

    This year he is failing half his classes and behaviors are coming up again. He is getting his triennial retesting and the new rsp is expecting to see his learning issues are still sufficient to qualify him and even increase his services. We are also going to do another functional behavior assessment and draw up a new bsp. But in looking over his old plan I see how it would never be followed in single subject classroom model with so many teachers who have so many students. A few teachers won't even follow his simple iep as it stands now unless others are looking or unless I complain to the office and I actually think that this may be were things have gotten off track. Also the resource room in his middle school he says is very loud and chaotic and he can learn and test better in a regular classroom so I don't really know iritis better to send him there more.

    So finally to my question, what should be a red flag that an accomidation won't really work in a secondary classroom? I know not all of his teachers will be there and many accomidations could be put in without their Input. I also think that few take the idea that since they don't agree with an accomidation they shouldnt have to follow it. I want this plan to work as well as possible for everyone so that it will be followed, my kid will be supported and he will flourish once again. What are somethings that if I hear I can speak up about not working.

    I firmly believe that once you've seen one kid who's neuro atypical you have seen ONE KiD WHO IS NEURO ATYPICAL. They all present differently and have unique needs so there is no one size fits all approach but if you know of a few that are most often successful and manageable in the secondary classroom throw them my way.
     
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  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Nov 26, 2015

    What sorts of accommodations do you think he needs? I bet there's a way to get him what he needs in a way that a secondary teacher can handle. If he needs a lot more than a secondary general ed teacher can manage, then I might question his placement in a general ed classroom.

    Can you give some more details on his current placement? You mentioned that he was close to being exited from special ed, but you also said that he was struggling in a self-contained classroom. I guess I'm confused about where he is at now and how long he has been in that setting.

    Does he still have the 25% maximum work thing? Honestly that one concerns me, because that can be considered a modification, not an accommodation, and it might impact whether he earns an actual diploma versus a certificate of attendance. In my district it would be a modification. Is the goal for him to graduate from high school and live independently after that? If so, he should be on a track that lets him earn a real diploma. In any case, if he is capable of doing 100% of the work (and it sounds like he is doing that right now), why does he need such a severe accommodation for something he doesn't need? Time to drop that one.

    In general I would probably recommend opting for accommodations that give him some control over whether and how he uses them. "Student may do classwork and tests in the resource room..." or "Student may use notes on tests..." gives him the option of not doing those things if he feels up for the task, while still preserving his right to use those additional resources whenever he needs them.

    I would further recommend accommodations that put most of the onus on him and/or you to advocate for him. In middle and high school, students are making the transition away from all the coddling and hand-holding of elementary toward independent activities with the guidance of their teachers. Give him the space to make this transition, and push him towards independence by giving him the responsibility to ask his teacher to sign his planner or create his own notes to use on tests (rather than teacher-created notes) or ask to get up and take a lap around the classroom when he needs to get some wiggles out or whatever.

    I am not a special ed teacher, so I don't know what would be appropriate given his particular needs. My comments are coming from the perspective of a general ed teacher. I want all my students to be successful, and it's better for me if I don't feel like my hands are tied with a 3-minute praise timer or some other exceedingly involved accommodation.
     
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  4. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I am a sped teacher and Caesar I agree with you. Middle school is a time to make the transition to independence. This is a time that if hand holding is needed then maybe the regular classroom is not the place for a student. This student sounds like it will be a difficult path and thoughts need to be what is the plan for after high school. That should be the ultimate goal.

    I agree about filling out the planner or planning breaks with a timer, etc. as accommodations that may not work in a secondary situation. Lectures, classroom discussions, etc. may take much longer and independent work with guidance is what is usually happening. Can things be changed? Possibly but this is a discussion that could be held.
    What I dislike as a teacher is having some behaviorist setting up a plan that that person has no intention of following through with themselves. It is extremely easy to set up a plan such as a timer or giving them a break during class or whatever, but when you are the one to implement, it isn't always so easy to do so.

    As to the resource room being chaotic and noisy which could be quite possible. I have a feeling that your son is saying that because he doesn't want to go there. Maybe he doesn't want to leave the room, maybe he wants to be normal (whatever that is!)

    I honestly wonder if it is time for a different setting for your son.
     
  5. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Nov 26, 2015

    As a general Ed teacher, the 25% would be extremely difficult. I keep my lessons lean and tailored to the standards, so barring the extra hands on things I make time for and my constant spiraling, not doing 75% of the work would mean not meeting at least 60% of the standards.

    The 3 minute timer also would not work for me. In a classroom with 32 students (at least 30% with iep, 501s, and/or ell) and doing labs and helping others, stopping every 3 minutes would be completely unrealistic even with all my best intentions.

    I've always been known as a teacher who is willing to work extensively with the special education team, but it sounds like this would be a case where a team teacher would be essential.
     
  6. renard

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    I'm not in the US, so I can't speak for legalities regarding IEP/501 and that, but I would think at 25% work and 3 minute interruptions, you've gone well into modifications, not accommodations. Accommodations, in general, work fine in the single-subject rooms. Some aspects of accommodations even work better in practice (timers, for example), as it isn't all-consuming for one teacher.

    I don't know your child, so I can't possibly say any sort of recommendation, but I personally think it's important a few factors here. What's realistic at this stage? How much of these problems are disability related, and how much is the inevitable (and common) resistance of a middle schooler, how much are academics important - vs learning independence? This is something really key, I have to say. Yes, he was on the honour roll, but he was doing so with an extraordinary amount of modifications (called accommodations, but really, that seemed like a modified program). How can you find balance here?

    This is just IMO but academics are always secondary to independence and life skills. I say this as someone who has their own disabled child. I would rather he barely graduated high school on his own, than with honours and excessive accommodations.
     
  7. bros

    bros Phenom

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    The 25% work I would say is a modification and not an accommodation - if you want that going into middle school, the district should inform you that it will put him on a path for a certificate of completion (or the equivalent in your state) and not a HS Diploma.

    With the breaks every 3 minutes, I would try to keep extending the breaks so they are further apart. In a middle school setting, maybe every 10 minutes could be realistic - make him have to sit at his desk, or walk around the room to sharpen his pencil (or something like that) if he needs to walk around for a break. To help avoid him not missing anything - maybe have the teacher record when they are lecturing and giving direction - in case the student misses anything. Though that might be cumbersome - he'd have to listen to every lesson every day - he coul fast forward to the part he missed, but then context would be an issue.

    What if his schedule could be formatted in a way that he doesn't need as many breaks - if he has adaptive PE, schedule it after a difficult class for him, so he has a longer break (As PE is less taxing on the mind than other classes)?
     
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  8. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    My son is 90% Gen Ed and for the last 2 years has been expected to do 100% of his work. The origin plan in fourth grade was supposed to step him up to 100% work over a period of time but then text year with a new teacher and summer tutoring he started back at 100% work and the plan was discontinued. He pushes in to resource for ELA and he has math in a class that has a para that is shared between 6 kids. He also has social skills class and time with thmy counselor. He hasn't had a bsp since the one year that he needed one, but now we are looking at going back to it. He went to middle school last year and the transition was great, then this year it's all falling apart. I want to help him get back on track but I want to make sure that what plan we come up with can actually be put in place and followed.

    He is good at advocating for himself, in fact, a bit too good. The last few months he has asked to leave class to see the nurse, see the counselor, see the VP, call home, to be any where but in class. He is always advocating for , in fact he is advocating himself right out of valuable instruction time, his constant attempts to leave class are one of the big reasons that we are going back to a bsp. The resource teacher thinks he may be doing it to get away from work that is too hard, the counselor think he may be doing it to get away from bullies (a big problem this year), the nurse wonders if he needs more medication for a digestive disorder he has. I guess we will find out with more assessment but I'm thinking if we go back to an extreme bsp it will be a waste of time since if it would be anything like the prior one it could never be followed.

    If the behaviorist and the rsp think that his academic issues are the root of this years sudden failure here and they call for another reduction in work what is a reasonable amount of work reduction? also his school has emotional support animals and he like to spend time with them but how often would it work to work for that reward. Time out of class is detrimental and I'm wondering how often do you think a student should have a reward/support that takes them out of the classroom. I have a student that is out of my class 3 days a week for an hour it it is killing him, so what do you think is a manageable amount that wouldn't set him up for more academic stress due to lost instruction?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  9. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Also do you think he is at an age where it would benifit him to be at the iep meeting? He has never been part of the team before and I know teens often are part of the team.
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    It seems praise every 3 minutes and doing 25% of the work was a success in your opinion....but do you really think it served your son well? It's no surprise that academic issues are at the root of his current struggles and he seems to know it...his behaviors you described are partially work avoidance tactics. It might have created unrealistic expectations for all involved (honor roll? I don't understand that... )

    It might be helpful to set some long term goals in your heart and head for your son. He's in middle school now where grades determine high school course placement. Do you see him in a regular HS? College? Does he see that for himself?
     
  11. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I have come to the conclusion that having a 7/8 grade student at an IEP may not be the best choice.. Sometimes with the student there, those involved really can't have a conversation about the problems. If the student already has avoidance issues, do you really think he will be okay with everyone seeming to be ganging up on him? For my 7th and 8th graders there can be upwards of 12 people at the meetings. The more issues a student has it can even be more as specialists are there. (I have no idea what rsp means. We do not use that term in our state.)

    I had a meeting where a student verified in SLD. No real problems with this student and when the pyschologist began her report, the student's mother started crying as she was overwhelmed. I had the student come sit by me and I was dealing with that during the meeting. At another, the principal asked the student to leave the room so we could have the discussion. I think that would be worse for a student than just not coming to the meeting. I don't encourage students to come to the meeting anymore unless the parent wants them there. I still feel strongly that the student can contribute to the IEP but if they are having major issues, it doesn't work very well.

    Being pulled out for anything such as speech, rewards, etc. really causes issues for the student unless they are pulled during a time that doesn't include core subjects. You already know how that works and it just gets more complicated as you move through middle school into high school.

    I agree with czacza that it is time to think beyond where he is today and what may be his high school placement. Also his plans for high school and beyond are important. All that information will determine where you go with middle school.

    By the way, what grade is he in? You said teens so that probably means 8th grade. Middle school can encompass several grades.
     
  12. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Actually he was honor roll doing 100% of grade level work. Minimizing his work was only done for part of one school year. His work was minimize in 4th grade then the next school year he went back to school after summer tutoring doing 100% so if he could be honor roll being held to the same standards as everyone else last year I feel at a loss for why he is failing this year and I'm reluctant to let them give him such minimized expectations this year.
     
  13. gr3teacher

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    From the sounds of things, he definitely should be invited to the IEP meeting. Not necessarily the reeval meeting, but the IEP meeting.
     
  14. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    He is in 7th grade and will be 13 in couple months. I don't see any reason why with hard work and studying he wouldn't pass our high school exit exam (ca) when the time comes but not if we keep losing ground academically. For him getting behind is much harder to make up than than his typically developing peers. In ideal situations he can succeed with hard work and extra time but I can't make only ideal learning environments for him. I know that that is what the iep is for but, I'm starting to loose faith that any plan can give him his ideal environment not matter what. He is in a great school right now and we barely scrape by to be able to live in this district and have access to a school with so many resources (for instance if he was at my school he wouldn't get social skills group and we have no counselor and our one resources teacher is stretched so thin she can hardly do her job at all, he would get no music or arts which would be shameful since this is where he shines, no emotional support animals, no assistive tech, no behaviorist ect) but it is still not Burger King. You can't just have it your way. There are not always custom orders so to speak. There is only one 7th science teacher-there is no picking the one that teaches to your style, same for history and ELA and this year several teacher seem like they can't manage even simple accomidations, like giving him a copy of their notes to use as a guideline for making his own notes, or allowing him to do test corrections or retest using a different test or helping him break up a larger project into smaller more manageable pieces. iknow that the expectations for independence are great now and teachers don't want to hold their hands through things, but he rally does still need it as evident from his sudden slide this year compared to last year when his teachers were more willing to do so. So are my options from here on out regular Ed failure or SDC?
     
  15. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Great advice, bros, with the idea of weaning him off constant praise by extending timing...scheduling can be difficult but looking at his sequence courses could be worthwhile.
     
  16. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

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    I'm not in California so I'm not familiar with SDC so I can't answer your final question. Believe me as a sped teacher it is difficult to make sure all accommodations are being followed in the regular classroom. The only way you truly know is to be in the classroom to see it!

    Since this school seems to have all the "bells and whistles", does it have team teaching or something like that? What about paraprofessionals? They could help with some of the accommodations such as testing. I had a teacher who didn't have notes for students so we had to have a para go into the class for one year just so we could have the notes that this teacher used year after year. We tried the route of getting another student's notes but that didn't work very well. There were issues of finding that student and getting the notes to copy. Then the student who needed the notes was complaining that he couldn't read the notes or didn't understand the notes!!

    Another factor to look at is he at a different school this year or just a different team of teachers? Is it the same sped teacher? How supportive is the principal of sped?

    I'm glad that you realize there is no ideal environment for him. To be honest, any educational situation is not the ideal situation for all students. I hate to say this but there are parameters that make it difficult for all to give what the student truly may need. Everyone tries to remember it is an individual education plan but most schools are not built around the individual student and it is rare that there is one on one teaching throughout the day.

    I do have to add that the teenage or hormonal factor is in this discussion. It is not an excuse but it does happen. Sometimes the medication a student is on may be impacted by this. Sometimes your "place" among others may be an issue. It sounds like he is having social issues. That becomes a bigger issue during this time.

    Good luck. Keep talking with those at the school. I can see that you are trying to be realistic. Have a good relationship with his casemanager. (Again I don't know how that works in California. Where I live I am the casemanager for those I teach and those in the regular classroom..)

    Have a good discussion at your meeting!
     
  17. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Sorry rsp is resource class which is sped for mild to moderate and SDC is special day class, which usually is for moderate to severe which I don't feel like my son is. I know that there are different kinds of SDC, I have a friend who teachs an emotional disturbance SDC for instance, but I don't think that he needs this, but I don't want him on a super limiting iep/bsp either and I don't want to be that crazy parent demanding a placment based on Least restrictive environment if is not what's really best. I want to be able to suggest appropriate accomidations but really my experience and most of the literature I am familiar with is for very young children (of my 10 years working the classroom all but 1 year of it was preschool-1st grade) so what I think is reasonable and par for the course may not be now that my sons education is not in this realm.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Can you share the grades and behavior comments he got on his 1st quarter report card this year?

    Besides this, what behaviors have his teachers talked to him or you about?
     
  19. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Put on your teacher goggles for a moment, biblio, which is hard given this is your son. What accommodations and modifications do you think are warranted and reasonable? What would it look like for your kid if he was getting what you think he needs? Are you viewing his abilities with clarity? Is he 'milking it'? Do you have a history as a learner or as a teacher that colors your perception of what your son needs?
     
  20. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    You make some very valid points. In school I was sped and I really didn't believe in myself as a learner and the structure of education in middle school and high school were not great for me. I barely graduated H.S. from an alternative school. I really only went to college with the idea that I would take my manditory 12 units in child development to teach preschool. Then I loved college. The college threw a ton of Ed support my way and I could take it at my own pace and my community college disabled student services were so supportive and even helped me pick teachers that are know to teach in preferable ways. In college teachers always supplied their lecture notes and they don't bother with busy work. The college gave me recordings of lectures in case That would work better for me. They provided study guides and they had me work with a case worker who showed me the difference between studying smarter and studying harder. I got unlimited time on test so that I could calm down and showwah I could do even if I wasn't fast getting there. They gave me note takers and free tutors and then I realized that I was never stupid and likely was never working anywhere near my potential. I graduated with honors cum laude, granted it took me 6 year rather than 4. I could learn just fine with the right support. Then I almost end competed with myself to always do better. In my credential program there were people with the c's get degree attitude but I would be crushed if I got a B. I guess I wish that they would work as hard to find what he needs and to show him his potential as my college did for me.

    I worry that the school and my son are underestimating him and I want him to have the support to be successful and believe I himself as a learner.

    He says he hates school and does not want to go to college, but I said the same thing at that age. Today I would take classes forever if they were less expensive. I just didn't like feeling like a failure but I gave people exactly what they expected from me and I worry that he is going through the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  21. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Funny thing about comments-there were none. He had an A in PE, a B in home room (he lost points several times for not having his planner filled out and a few times becuase he's isn't have ever sign his weekly progress report) an A in band, a D in math, and F in science, an F in english, an F in history/geography. I know part of this is missing asignments. He keeps stinking losing them. We have don't several assignments more than once and still they disappear. He had missing class work in history because he couldn't type his work beucase it needed to be filled out on a worksheet but he didn't have a pencil and the teacher refused to give him one (after that I sent in 3 boxes of sharpened Ticonderoga pencils and a note to please give him one as needed since he often doesn't carry a pencil becuase he types most work and he could lose the clothes off his back and I wouldn't be surprised). He was missing other class work becuase he kept leaving class.

    His teachers say he would do better if he would only study, to which I replied I know he studies since we do it together. But truthfully sometimes I don't know if we ar studying the right material. All I know it that the test will be on some time period or some science content like genetics. I have really had to nag him about it this year though. They have otherwise not told me about anything. I know he is leaving class because the counselor, vp, and nurse have told me he comes to se at least one of them every day and he fact that he won't stay in class is the reason why they want to get the behaviorist in on the team again.
     
  22. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    So he definitely needs to stop leaving class, like immediately. Tell him that he will not request to leave class for any reason, and tell his teachers to stop allowing him to leave class. He can take care of his issues on his own time before or after school or during lunch. He is avoiding work and missing out on the material, and all the supports in the world won't make him successful if he refuses to work and isn't accessing the material. If he wants to access the therapy animals as a reward, he can do it on his free time or during one of the classes that he has a good grade in.

    I think that he would do well to have and use a daily planner. Have him write the day's activities and assignments in it, along with all upcoming tests or projects. Have him bring it to the teacher at the end of each period for a signature. You need to check it every day to ensure that he is following through with this. It will help you when he needs help studying because you'll know exactly what material is being covered on the test.
     
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  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 27, 2015

    So he's failing in the academic content areas. I tutor. Ok so when tests are coming up I find resources provided by teachers online to help my kids prepare. You can help your son in similar ways. What resources are your sons teachers providing for regular ed kids? What can you find online? It's not enough to just fight the school what are you doing at home?
     
  24. 2ndTimeAround

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    It sounds a bit like you are blaming the general ed teachers for not doing their jobs. Are they actually not following the current IEP? If not, get that taken care of ASAP. I wouldn't expect them to do things beyond the IEP though. Like providing him with a sharpened pencil because he lost his somewhere. That teacher isn't your child's locker/supply cabinet. Instead, the both of you should pack several in his backpack every morning.

    As a general ed teacher, I would fight long and hard against some of the accommodations mentioned in this thread: test retakes, using notes on tests, etc. Those accommodations don't help a child learn, they just help a child get a better grade.
     
  25. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    Nov 27, 2015

    This may be the difference between elementary teachers and secondary teachers that makes it so hard for me to figure out what is reasonable and what isn't. I have always provided my students with supplies, often out of my own pocket. I had many students who didn't bring in any school supplies this year and I had to go to Walmart with my credit card and get them the necessary materials since I would never have a child sit and do nothing and not participate and learn becuase he is lacking supplies, and in fact I'm pretty sure I would be fired if I did.

    I'm not out to blame the Gen Ed teachers and I would much rather we be a support my student together, however it is often tough to know what is reasonable at that age especially when the specialist go to one extreme with what he should get and he the teachers seem to act like the opposite extreme (in all fairness I'm thinking of two in particular). Is giving a student a pencil when he isn't allowed to use his assistive technology that is supposed to be allowed per his iep too much to ask? The resource teacher thinks he needs more time in resource but maybe he just needs to not be allowed to leave class and access to the occasional pencil. He has been given teacher notes his whole life, is it not appropriate any more at his age? He used to be read all test questions and dictate his answers to the teacher who would act as a scribe, but I knew that that had to be done away with when he went to having mutilpe classes with different teachers, I also realize that he can't have a homework buddy anymore, the rest of it though how do I know when it's no longer appropriate.

    Is it ok to see if he could do his presentations to his teacher only without the rest of the classic the room since public speaking makes him so nervous that his tourettes get horrible and he cant stop ticcing and the kids start making fun of him and mimicking his verbal tics, or is that too much. After all when would that be possible? What should I be asking for and what should teachers not be expected to do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  26. Bibliophile

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    All that they post on their website is that there will be a test on eg. Ancient China or genetics or chapt 9-12. Nothing more specific than that. We use the text book and we study. I tried getting stuff on line but we were wasting time studying unnecessary stuff. I tried making a quizlet with him but again most of what we study isn't on the test. I know that we need to study and home and we do. The homework alone takes up pretty much our whole evening from when I get home at 6 to when I get ready for bed at 8:30 and that's not even counting the projects on top of projects. Or the manditory 30 minutes on nightly reading which has to be done before I get home. In fact I almost feel like I am clearly doing something wrong if it's taking over two hours most nights to do homework for 7th grade. Part of it could well be that it's late at night or that I'm having to pester him to get through it. I'd send him to a tutor if I could afford one but we live hand to mouth and tutors around here want 30 dollars an hour.

    I'm more than happy to help him study at home but I feel like I'm reteaching lessons and that doesn't seem to help much either since by Friday's test he gets a 58 % oh...or the time he got a 0 since he froze up and couldn't answer a single question. Ugh
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  27. Bibliophile

    Bibliophile Companion

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    I agree that his butt needs to stay in class. It baffles me why he suddenly decided that this was an ok thing to do this year.
     
  28. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    2 hours of homework is the norm in grade 7 for gen Ed kids in my district. Either he can perform at gen Ed or modified expectations is to be seen. I agree with previous posts which outline that middle school expectations are and should be differant than elementary. Think a few years from now... Where do you see your kid realistically based on his real abilities?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  29. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    7 hours of school and 2.5 hours of homework (plus time spent on projects, studying, etc) is considered reasonable for 7th graders? Thank god I teach elementary students...
     
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  30. 2ndTimeAround

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    I think your questions above are great questions - specifically listing things he gets now and getting feedback on those things.

    About the supplies - I think it says a lot about your expectations when you replied that it shouldn't be too much to ask of the teacher instead of acknowledging my suggestion that you pack several for him each morning. It is one thing for a teacher to provide for her students out of the goodness of her heart, but it is a radically different thing to have that expectation for her.

    Teachers' notes is a very common accommodation. But not all teachers lecture from notes, so it may not apply to all classes. Not all classes have textbooks or online resources so it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to ask a teacher what subjects are being studied each week.

    Avoiding public speaking is also a reasonable accommodation.

    Read aloud is common for testing. Not the scribe part - I haven't seen that except for state testing where a student recently injured his hand.

    I agree with others that you should start thinking about where you expect your son to be in the next few years and consider plans for after high school. Your experience in college is so far removed from what is the norm that I'd hate for your son to expect a whole bunch of accommodations then. At my high school we strive to wean students from accommodations as they mature so they'll be able to be successful without any when they reach college.
     
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  31. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Tricky question without knowing the school.

    I would not put providing supplies as an accommodation. I don't think an IEP shoukd require instructors to purchase things out of their own pocket.

    Recording lectures... I like that and I think it's possible for most teachers.

    Restrict or take away the leaving class privileges.

    Heads up on the lessons.
     
  32. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Why is he given the decision making to leave or stay?
     
  33. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Elementary teachers have students all day....I assign 30 minutes of homework in grade 3.... Add a few teachers and heavier content and you've got 2 hours for an average student who is going to perform at or above grade level. I tutor middle school kids. An hour is just enought to get through basic hw....I leave most nights with kids needing to read or review notes
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  34. gr3teacher

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    That's just crazy to me... teachers expect twelve and thirteen year olds to put in longer work weeks than adults?
     
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  35. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    With all due respect, it is frankly ridiculous to expect a teacher to provide school supplies to students. Teachers can certainly choose to do this, but parents should never expect or demand it. The parent should provide the supplies, period. If you feel that the teacher was violating the IEP by not allowing your son to use his adaptive technology, then you should have brought that up. Bring it up now if it's an issue.

    I don't really care for accommodations that allow students to have access to the teacher's notes. Sometimes this is appropriate, but more often than not it seems to be used as a crutch by a student who is fully capable of taking his own notes but simply doesn't want to, at least in my experience. Furthermore, your son needs to learn how to take his own notes. The fact that he has no idea what to study for is proof of this. If he had notes of his own, he would know what is going to be on the test. If he is capable of performing 100% of the necessary work and getting himself onto the honor roll, then he most certainly has the requisite skills to be able to take his own notes. Finally, not all teachers lecture or have PowerPoints where the notes are pre-written. I never do. My lessons are typically done at the board, modeling the new material and using a lot of student-generated examples. If you were waiting for me to give my notes to your kid, you and your kid would both be out of luck.

    I think that some of what you want sounds unreasonable and, if I'm being totally honest, not necessarily in the best interest of your son. If he really needs all the supports that you want for him, then his needs are severe and he may be better placed in a completely self-contained setting. If he doesn't need all these supports, then he shouldn't have them, and you risk enabling his continued inappropriate behaviors if you demand that he receive them. As gently as possible, I suggest that you take some time to seriously consider what your son is honestly and truly capable of and where you and he want him to be in 5, 10, 20 years. Depending on the answers to those things, you can start making a list of supports you'd like him to have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
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  36. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Homework is not really super outlandish as an idea or a practice in middle school or high school. Students have 6 or 7 classes per day, sometimes more or fewer, and not a lot of time to learn a lot of different subjects. Most teachers assign 15 minutes or so of homework per night in the form of reviewing notes, and that's not terribly unreasonable. A few teachers might assign more in the way of practice problems or special projects or major papers. It's just how it is. As a parent, I would be upset about hours upon hours of unreasonable homework demands but not regular review or daily reading. Those things are to be expected. Middle school and high school teachers must teach a great deal of content in a very short amount of time, so students will need to do some things on their own. It's part of learning good time management skills and study habits, which are necessary life skills.
     
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  37. bros

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    I was invited to my first IEP meeting in eighth grade - they invited me in when they were discussing accommodations, asked me how I thought they were working, how often I used them, things like that - then I went back to class.
     
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  38. LouiseB

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    Our meetings are either before or after school.
     
  39. gr3teacher

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    Some homework is reasonable, but if that homework ends up making a student's work day longer than an adult's work day, I don't think that is reasonable.
     
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  40. Backroads

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    I don't believe in the homework model of "and learn all the stuff I didn't teach you on your own time!" Reviewing is a fine skill and,reasonable for homework.

    Bibliophile, has your son ever had instruction on taking notes?
     
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  41. MissCeliaB

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    We try to only have truly needed accommodations on our IEP and 504 plans. By high school, most students who are in the standard curriculum no longer need tests and material read aloud. We also try to switch students to getting copies of peer notes rather than teacher notes because that's what most nearby colleges do. By senior year, we try to transition students who are college-bound to what they will be getting in college. I've never taught middle school, so I'm not sure what's appropriate there, but some of what you are describing is not what a student on a standard diploma track would be getting at the high school where iI work. I think it isabsolutely not appropriate to require teachers to provide school supplies. (Personally, I keep a box of golf pencils and a pack of loose leaf handy, but students do not expect it.)
     

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