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Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Brendan, Aug 11, 2010.

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  1. sweetlatina23

    sweetlatina23 Cohort

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    Aug 12, 2010

    I have seen that support several times, I guess I just havent felt it on all occasions. I get the fact that we wont all agree thats what keeps me coming on here, someone always has a different opinion and thats how I learn. I think my problem is more the fact that some questions go ignored, and I stay clueless on what I needed help on. You are right at work its a whole other world and not everyone is even willing to lend an ear. As adults we need our own circle of trust to find someone to come to wether its personal or a profession question. I do appreicate it, I dont want to seem like I dont. Thank you all. I think its just a few that seem rude, but they aren't. Again, that happens online without the actually expression.
     
  2. dovian

    dovian Comrade

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    Aug 12, 2010

    I'd just like to speak up for those who leave when the bell rings at the end of the day - one don't always know what they've got going on at home. Some people have small children or ill family members. Many people prefer to do grading etc. at home in the company of their families rather than alone in their classrooms. Just because some teachers are not able to sponsor after-school activities doesn't mean they aren't working just as hard as those who stay until 5 or 6. And I think it's a dangerous thing to start playing "I work harder than you do."

    I don't condone being late on a regular basis, though, (surely everyone has locked their keys in their car at some point, but that's different) and that's a separate issue from leaving "early".
     
  3. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    Aug 12, 2010

    I'm not even going to ask.

    I got plenty of that up close and personal last year while working as a mentor. I don't need any of it here.
     
  4. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

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    Aug 12, 2010

    THANK YOU. Our kids deserve THE BEST not just anyone off the streets.
     
  5. BioAngel

    BioAngel Science Teacher - Grades 3-6

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    Aug 12, 2010


    Amen! :thumb:
    Though I do believe it is okay to share your lesson plans and ideas with other teachers--- but don't expect all the other teachers to do your work and not contribute yourself.

    And one other thing... I think some people come to this board to vent and complain but don't really mean to be so harsh. This might be the ONLY place they can vent, which I believe is healthy. :cool:

    (I think I missed all the threads about this too :confused: )
     
  6. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Aug 12, 2010

    I understand exactly what you mean, sweetlatina. I'll admit I'm bad about not welcoming new members, I guess because I still feel a little like a new member myself, having been here less than a year.

    I also know how it feels to post a topic or question that is VERY important to you, only to see it largely ignored by the rest of the members. Once again, though, I can't say too much because I've ignored plenty of threads myself. If the title doesn't catch my interest or it doesn't sound like something I could help with, tend to move on to the next thread. Sometimes I'll take a peek at the OP just to see what it is about and I've often been surprised to find the topic isn't even close to what I was thinking.

    Overall, this is a GREAT community. The members here are like family and will offer tremendous support when you're having a bad day, aren't feeling well, feel like you've been mistreated at work or you just need to have a good vent.

    On the other hand, they will also tell you when you're being more of a whiner and just need to "Suck it up, Buttercup". Of course, they rarely (if ever) actually use language that bluntly, but they will certainly let you know if they feel you are complaining about something that most others consider to be a normal part of the job.

    The beauty of this forum is that you can disagree with people, but still respect their opinions. I've done my share of that as well. I have no problem telling somebody I don't agree with their POV on a particular issue, but I still respect the member for the advice and support they give me and others and for the passion they obviously have for their job.

    One last thing is that you just have to give it some time. I believe you said you've only been here a month. Most of us really haven't had a chance to get to know you yet. But the more you post, the more we will learn about you and the more you will find people responding to your comments. :cool:
     
  7. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Thanks, Cerek, for using my favorite catchphrase!!! It made me think of my friend Catherine, and smile!!!:D
     
  8. Lynnnn725

    Lynnnn725 Connoisseur

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    Aug 13, 2010


    Well... there are people who leave at the bell when we're supposed to leave 30 minutes after the bell! That's a difference.

    There are also people who arrive when the students do... when we're supposed to arrive 20 minutes before! That's a difference.

    I'm not sure what you're policies are at your school, but maybe the poster meant people who leave early than what is school policy for teachers.

    I understand people have a life outside of school... however there are times when you need to make a sacrifice. I don't think you have to do every single function (and I am speaking about elem school), however when we interview you and ask you how you feel about being involved in school functions and you say that you are a team player and involved in the school community and plan on volunteering - well then I expect to see you helping us out! Haha.
     
  9. Mrs. R.

    Mrs. R. Connoisseur

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    Aug 13, 2010

    I do think there are times in your life when you can volunteer like crazy and be at every. single. school. function. When I was newly hired and single, I practically lived at school.
    When I got married, my husband asked if I was actually married to my job. I cut back a bit.
    When my first child arrived, I stopped directing the school play (all by myself - no help), stopped sponsoring clubs, and basically took my work home with me to work on after she went to bed. It was what I needed to do to learn how to balance being a mom and working. I was doing what I needed to to in order to be the very best mom for my kids and the very best teacher for my school kids that I could be.
    Now that both of my kids are in school all day and my husband is now home (he started a freelance web-development business), I have the freedom to take more on after school again. Life goes in cycles. Some year you're a great teacher; some years it's like that first year all over again and it's all you can do to keep your head above water.
     
  10. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Mrs. R, you make a great point!

    I coached speech and debate for 18 years. Every single day after school, most Saturdays (7-6) from October until March, then 2 weekends away for States and Nationals. I went to the plays and the games and the proms and the cocktail parties.

    Parenthood has a way of changing that. Throw in some health issues, and it changes big time. In fact, for 6 weeks a few years ago, I left 5 minutes early every single day for radiation. My close friends, and even some not so close friends, knew why. But I doubt that everyone on our faculty of 120 knew, and I'm sure some wondered about this "special priveledge" I was getting.

    My principal was wonderful when I re-entered the workforce in 2006. He told me not to sweat the extra curricular while my kids were young; I had put in my time and there would be time enough for that in a few years. (Of course, I did pick up a Sodality group-- 30 minutes after school, once a week. And last year I did pick up an in-school group for kids whose parents are divorced. And I'm on the committee that writes the Catholic high school entrance exam. ) And I've mentored a number of new teachers in the past few years. I hit the extra stuff as often as I can.

    This year, he suggested that I sign up for the service activity that sets up so many of our weekend activities. I would be one of several moderators, and can sign up for only the weekends I can be there.

    I guess my point is that there's a huge difference between sneaking out early, doing half a job, and being in a position where administration has approved your actions. Brendan, in his OP, and a number of people on this thread, are referring to the first scenario.
     
  11. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Aug 13, 2010

    There's a huge difference between abusing the terms of your contract and taking care of yourself. Some people, depending on their personal situations, are able to happily go way above and beyond the requirements of a job. Yes, they will get all the positive strokes and be seen as selfless, caring teachers. And they well might be just that. If it fulfills their lives, then that is wonderful, for the teacher and for the students.

    But, just as we all know that accommodations must be made to adjust for students' varying learning differences, administrators (and fellow teachers) must be able to accept the differences among their staff and peers. Stage of life, health of the employee, outside stressors will all affect the way someone approaches a job.

    What bothers me is when people expect that teachers should give 100% of themselves to their jobs, but they don't think the same of employees in other professions. These days, most states and school districts seem to have placed the entire burden of our country's future in the hands of teachers. Yes, that is a generalization. But, I think teachers should stop expecting that they can 'do it all'. It is hard enough to teach much less act as the students' psychologist, family mediator, or parent.

    Sure, teachers must do their jobs to the best of their abilities, and a certain amount of caring comes with the territory. But, we are human beings first and we can't give ou best unless we fuel our own tanks.
     
  12. sweetlatina23

    sweetlatina23 Cohort

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    Aug 13, 2010

    You made a whole lot of sense. Thanks. :D
     
  13. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Aug 13, 2010

    :atoz_love:
     
  14. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Aug 13, 2010


    I couldn't agree more. It many cases it seems as if 100% is not even enough anymore since it's starting to come down to test scores to evaluate a teacher's effectiveness (without the consideration of the other powerful factors in a child's life).

    I have just never concerned myself with another teacher's or sub's schedules. What works for me might not work for them and vice versa.

    As a sub I stay and sweep the floors, write/document, organize everything as perfectly as I could, and do not care what other subs do. Many teachers leave before I do when I'm just there subbing.

    As a teacher I was there on the weekends and often the last to leave the building. I never cared why other teachers left before I could even dismiss all of my students. That's up to the admin/district and as a teacher I had more than enough to worry about.
     
  15. MelissainGA

    MelissainGA Groupie

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    Aug 13, 2010

    :yeahthat:

    Wow, you never know what you are going to miss when you don't have time to come to A to Z for a couple of days due to teaching. What happened?
     
  16. MelissainGA

    MelissainGA Groupie

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Oh and I don't stay late (til 5 or 6). I would prefer to take my grading home and do it rather than stay at school. I don't like leaving my dog alone for 15 hours a day so I go to work on time and come home as soon as we are contractually able to leave.
     
  17. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Aug 13, 2010

    AMEN!!
     
  18. teacher333

    teacher333 Devotee

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Was this based on one bad experience, a change in experiences, or not ready to go back after summer break? In my many, many years of working experience, both in school and private sector, EVERYONE complains at some time or other about their jobs. There are good days and bad days for all. And when people complain, they like to do that to a group that can understand and possibly sympathize about their plight.
     
  19. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Yes, I totally agree. Isn't it better to vent and complain on here rather than complain in front of students or other staff members. Sometimes people need to just get some feedback and it might sound like complaining but it can also make them a better teacher by getting some new ideas and perspectives. I really don't know why anyone (except maybe the owner of this board) should be telling people what to say or not say here. Maybe everyone can put something in the title of their thread like "vent" or something simliar so those who don't like "complaining" can avoid the thread altogether?
     
  20. cheer

    cheer Comrade

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    Aug 13, 2010

    Great idea and way to be a problem solver.
    I have to admit I sometimes need a good vent for the very reasons you stated..not to complain to students or staff. It would be nice to have a safe place to do this without being judged or harshly ridiculed. Thanks again for the great idea.
     
  21. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

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    Aug 13, 2010

    The "other forum" has a vent section. It's a place to just, well, let off some steam. I think it would be a great idea to have a vent section.

    Good point about not taking the time to welcome people to A to Z. I'll do better.

    And I'm with Melissa, my colleague from Georgia. I like to work at home, so I'm often out the school door after the buses leave. But I don't think anyone would doubt my zest for all things educational. Perhaps it's more an attitude that the "slackers" show combined with tardiness and a tendency to leave early.

    I believe Brenden was referring to some ignorant comments made by someone who decided not to come back and who deleted most of his/her blathering before leaving.
     
  22. Brendan

    Brendan Fanatic

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    Aug 13, 2010

    It's been sparked by one person in particular. But, there's been a lot of complaining about doing our jobs lately on here...
     
  23. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Let me define bad teacher for you, let me know if any one of you have ever seen or heard of worse than this.

    In seventh grade my Reading teacher never, not one time, stood in front of the room and used the board.

    He sat in his desk. Mind you, he was full time, not just filling in. He tape recorded himself reading stories and lessons at home.

    Then, when all the students were in the room, we would sit down. He would sit down and hit play. Sometimes he would leave the room for extended periods of time.

    At random he would come in, pause it, and have us take turns reading aloud or silently. Then, he'd give us the same test or quiz he used for the last twenty years.

    That, in my experience, is the only bad teacher I've ever had. The rest have been absolutely wonderful people dedicated to their craft.

    I hope if anything positive comes out of 'standards,' it's the elimination of teachers like him.
     
  24. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Pete, there are lots of forms of bad teaching-- you've given one excellent example.

    In my opinion, my 7 year old daughter had another this past year. Her "bad" took on a different form than the one you describe, but it was harmful nonetheless.

    Brendan opened this thread in response to still another form of bad teaching.

    Like good teaching, it doesn't always look the same, but you know it when you see it.
     
  25. Starista

    Starista Cohort

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Hi! :love:

    I also get discouraged at faculty meetings when teachers heave the proverbial "sighs" about another committee to join, more PTO nights, etc etc.

    And then there's the teacher down the hall from you who spends the work week wandering from class to class whining about her class size, her curriculum, her teaching assistant, her broken computer, etc etc!

    Some people just like to complain. While I often think these folks are toxic people, I forcibly remind myself that I have 0 clue what is going on in their personal lives that might be influencing their negative mood.

    Sure, a true professional will check his or her issues at the classroom door. But let's be realistic... we all know that doesn't always occur. It should happen. But it doesn't.

    I try not to get caught up in the complaining dished out by "bad" teachers in my school. On the flip side, I also refuse to entangle myself with the folks who complain about said "bad" teachers.

    Naturally I feel badly that my former student might get the teacher who doesn't go "above and beyond," but it's really out of my control. And talk, talk, talking about it with other teachers is futile.

    Regarding people whose posts smack of complaints, I'm going to echo what I have learned from another message board I frequent:

    Take what you like, and leave the rest.

    If you can tell within the first two lines of a post that it's going to be riddled with complaining (and that annoys you), click the back arrow on your tool bar and find a new post to read.

    Here's to a school year filled with positives. :hugs:
     
  26. Unbeknownst

    Unbeknownst Cohort

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    Aug 14, 2010

    This would have been my exact post.

    Nicely done.
     
  27. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Venting is healthy. It's what enables us to go back to work tomorrow and put on a happy face, ready to deal with what drove us crazy today.

    But doing half a job, then complaining about how hard your job is, well that's a different matter. As is thinking that student teaching has prepared you to conquer the world, knowing all there is about teaching.

    I don't think Brendan, or anyone here, has an issue with an occasional vent.

    But sophomoric whining about being asked to work the professional job you're being paid to do is a different matter.
     
  28. dovian

    dovian Comrade

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Yes, we work bell-to-bell - no required before or after time. I would have an issue with people leaving half an hour before the end of 8th period. I don't have an issue with people leaving as soon as we're allowed, and I don't think it makes you less of a "good" teacher to do that.
     
  29. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Aug 14, 2010

    :yeahthat:
     
  30. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Aug 14, 2010

    When I made the comment earlier about teachers that try to beat the buses out of the parking lot, I was talking about those that leave before the required time on a regular basis.

    Most of the schools in my district require teachers to be on campus from 7:30-3:30 (approx 30 minutes before classes begin and 30 minutes after they end). As a sub, I was told several times that I was expected to be at the school by 7:30am to prepare for the students. During my ST, I automatically stayed until at least 3:30pm or later just finishing up stuff from the day.

    If your district doesn't require you to stay any longer, then obviously there is nothing wrong with leaving right after the last bell.
     
  31. teach1st

    teach1st Comrade

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    Aug 14, 2010

    Everyone needs to understand what they are getting themselves in when entering a teaching position. However, is it our responsibility to judge anyone for how they do it? I guess I would defenitly try to help any teacher if they asked for the help. But I am there to teach my students! The more I worry about what other teachers are doing. The more I become surrounded by the drama this teacher is creating! We all know there are people who should not be a teacher or become a teacher. But it isn't our responsibility to tell them that they shouldn't become a teacher.
     
  32. msmullenjr

    msmullenjr Devotee

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    Aug 14, 2010

    My P has us mark (beginning of the year) if we are an early teacher or a late teacher. You have certain amount of time you are required to be there before and after school, so she lets us decide how we split the time. My school gets out at 3:00, and I leave at 3:15, sometimes a few minutes earlier. I also get there before most teachers.

    I do agree though, that there is a difference between venting about things and complaining about your job. My school right now is all kinds of crazy because we have to go through something called Focus 4 Success. There will be people from the county walking through and new requirements. I don't know too many details since we just started school on Wednesday, but I have my first training on Tuesday. I'll probably save my freak out until I know if there anything to freak out about.
     
  33. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    Aug 14, 2010

    I once had a teacher( I was her coach) who left every single day at 3:15. She would get antsy if we had meetings after school. This teacher also came in at 6:00 am every morning, and worked at home. She was very scheduled in her life routine( nap after school, gym, then school work). She was always prepared, yet had a reputation for leaving early. But she was a phenomenal teacher who got the job done, and that's what matters to me. Then there are those staff members who habitually leave early, and never seem to have anything planned. I think time management is a great quality to have as a teacher, regardless if you leave early or come in later. I'm always trying to work on that.
     
  34. eddygirl

    eddygirl Companion

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    Aug 14, 2010

    We have a couple of teachers who always stay late, and like to tell everyone how they were here until 5-6:00 P.M. doing "work." However, I have stopped in their rooms after hours (I moderate a couple of after school clubs) and often find them playing computer games or chatting on the phone. In my sister's building, many teachers stay late but wander the building chit-chatting with colleagues. She said she has to close her door and even sometimes shut off the lights so people will not stop in to talk while she's getting work done. I don't have a problem with staying late or leaving on time; I just don't think it's fair to misrepresent what you're doing in your "late" time, and then chastise others for not staying as late as you do.
     
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