Video of two bright First Graders taking their Spelling Test completely upside down..

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by teacherman1, Nov 5, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

  2.  
  3. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 5, 2010

    Not trying to beat a dead horse, but...

    Do you have permission from their parents and from your principal to post videos of your students online?

    As a parent, I would have some real issues with a teacher posting any video of my children, much less a test that they "failed miserably."
     
  4. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    Of course I have written permission to upload the videos! When I offered to help these kids, the only thing I asked was permission to upload the videos onto my website - and that was only if it worked.

    The principal, the teachers and the parents are all in agreement that the results have been unbelievable and they support me 100%.

    By the way, did you even watch the video? They both ended up getting perfect papers (100%) with excellent handwriting.
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Nov 5, 2010

    You asked permission to upload to your website...and yes, I know...websites are public, but did the parents know you would be posting links to your website and their kids' videos on other sites?
     
  6. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    Yes

    Don't you have anything to say about what you observed?
     
  7. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 5, 2010

    I watched it and a few others. Very cool!!!!!!
     
  8. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Nov 5, 2010

    Just a question: At what point do you turn their world back right side up?
     
  9. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 5, 2010


    In his other videos, he has students going back and forth during the exercise demonstrating similar levels of of mastery including self correction regardless of orientation.
     
  10. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,165

    Nov 5, 2010

    As I've observed on several previous occasions: reorienting text is an interesting possibility among many, many other approaches, but it is neither revolutionary nor a sure cure for all readers.
     
  11. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 5, 2010


    I teach math at the secondary level and have no clue as to how to teach the ankle biters so my observations are of limited value.

    This said.....

    I haven't seen any pedagogical approach that I thought was good for all students and I haven't really seen any that wasn't some form of repackaging something that wasn't at least 50 years old.

    Many of the brain based concepts are updated in how they are effective based on our improved understanding of the brain, but the methods of teaching to multiple intelligences were being used under a different name in the old days.
     
  12. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 5, 2010

    I have a question for ALL who have responded to the OP.



    Why is it that we have a teacher who is having fun and proud of pulling something positive off, but no less than 5 posts slamming him and 3 of 4 posters didn't have a single positive comment to make.

    How would you respond if these sort of statements came from your students commenting on the work of another student in your classroom?

    You should be ashamed of yourselves.
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,181
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 5, 2010

    I think it's an interesting method to get these kids to read and write. Hey, gotta try everything, right?? I am curious what life will be like for them down the line. Do you know if they are doing any sort of longitudinal studies?
     
  14. texteacher

    texteacher Companion

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    I was actually really curious about this so the other day I let one of my students who struggles to read and acts like reading is torture turn his book upside down. He read about twice as fast and seemed really proud of himself. I asked him if it was easier and he said yes it was. He no longer seemed to reverse his b's and d's and p's and q's. Of course, I only tried this a day ago so I can't really comment on real progress or not but it was a relief that he didn't hate reading for ten minutes.
     
  15. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,185
    Likes Received:
    2,115

    Nov 5, 2010

    My own child used to hold the paper close to upside down and twist into contortions to write. It was "easier" to read.

    I was in the OD office when my child had an eye exam. I was looking at the non reflective eye chart that was backward and didn't realize it was until the eye doctor pointed that out. I didn't give it a second thought and didn't process it as being backward.

    The OD had a chuckle over that one.
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Nov 5, 2010

    I'm not sure what posts you see as 'slamming'...2 caveats regarding online posting of students, a question about when children are re-exposed to the 'right side up' view, and some comments regarding how not one method works for all students... Not sure of what some should be ashamed...
     
  17. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    If you will please take the time to review the other videos you will see evidence that I did not turn their world upside down to begin with - it was already inverted.

    Look at Day one and Day 2 with Tiger and Isaiah.
    Look at the video of the boy from last year who bombed the DIBELS LNF right-side-up on one day and wizzed through it upside down the next.
    Look at the videos of last years PI writers.

    To answer your question, each child began to "turn it over" at different times and and at their own pace - sometimes within the first week. Watch the video of the 5 kids in the PI Reading Group and you'll see that two out of five are switching back and forth just a few weeks after starting PI.

    I'm not claiming that this will help all kids, but I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that it helped these ten kids immensely and they just happened to be the lowest of the low in their respective classes.

    If I didn't truly believe that this is a significant breakthrough in dealing with severe reading disabilities, why would I spend countless hours putting together a web site, blurring faces frame by frame, and donating my time to work with Isaiah and Tiger at another school?

    Take a moment to read the comments on my web site.
     
  18. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    Congratulations!!!
    You are the FIRST TEACHER that I know of that has actually given it a try...

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
    :):):)
    You have made my week!
     
  19. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 5, 2010

    I've heard of it, I've talked about it, but I keep forgetting to give it a try. I just finished my lesson plans for next week and made a note to myself to give it a try with a few of my fifth graders who can't seem to write. Don't know if they are too old, it's not the problem, or what, but we'll see.
     
  20. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 6, 2010




    The OP addressed the concern of legal authorization and you continued to treat it as something wrong after he stated that he HAD done it right.

    Following that, you discounted his teaching as being out of date and not working for EVERY student (neither of which were claims that the OP made.)

    Now you're refusing to accept that you are holding back a successful educator by attacking and dismissing his successes.



    I wish the OP continued success and hope he keeps doing what he is doing despite your repeated denials of his accomplishments.
     
  21. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Nov 6, 2010

    You must have me confused with someone else- I offered a caveat about posting kids' info online- there have been members here who have had permission to post on school websites but it gets blurry (and sometimes teachers get in trouble) when the 'publishing' extends further than that.

    I did not:
    discount his teaching as being out of date and not working for EVERY student
    I did not: attack nor dismiss his successes.
    I did not: deny his accomplishments

    As a matter of fact, I'm not convinced that anyone did any of the above...questions, caveats, differing opinions...yes. But not what you have accused.
     
  22. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,165

    Nov 6, 2010

    Science is founded on healthy skepticism, or so I have been led to believe.
     
  23. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 6, 2010

    As a mom and as a professional I cringe every single time I see pictures of kids posted, by teachers or any other adults, here or elsewhere. It frightens me-- more than words can tell.

    To be honest, even if I had the permission of the parents, I simply wouldn't do it.

    We preach and preach to our kids about the dangers of posting pictures online. Yet too often those words fall on deaf ears. I think part of the issue is that, too often,they KNOW it's a matter of "do as I say, not as I do." The kids SEE pictures posted online, and assume it's safe.

    First and foremost in our job description is keeping our kids safe. Then we can teach them.

    I'm not ashamed of questioning whether or not the OP had authorization.

    I would have been ashamed of myself had I not brought up the question.
     
  24. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010


    If I thought there was any real danger in posting a video do you think I would have my own grandchildren up there? There is no identifying information in the videos or on my site as to last names, residences or even the schools they attend.

    My school publishes pictures of students in the local papers all the time that include full names and where they can be found. Why is that OK? There are plenty of bad people right in their own neighborhood.

    I still think its interesting that you can steer the whole discussion away from what was originally intended - to help the kids we teachers work with every day.

    Why are you trying to make me the bad guy? Did you even look at the web site?
     
  25. TiffanyL

    TiffanyL Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010

    Teacherman,

    Possibly the apprehensive responses you receive are due to your frequent reminders that we should all visit the website, watch the video, etc., etc. In addition, your posts are in such large font and not that it matters but all of it combined frankly lead me, and possibly some others, to feel as if you come off like a relentless salesman....not someone who really wants to engage in professional conversation here.
     
  26. SunnyReader

    SunnyReader Companion

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010

    I have never heard of this before, but I will definitely be looking it up. What was your time frame with this? 1 week, months?
     
  27. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010

    No one believes that PI is possible until they see the videos, and I don't blame them. I wouldn't believe it myself without seeing it first hand. So how do I get people to look without the frequent reminders?

    As for the large font, studies have shown that large print is better for people with reading disabilities and for oldsters like me. Sorry it bothers you...

    In this day and age I don't blame people for being skeptical. But again, to be a salesman you have to be selling something - and I'm not. I have no product to sell and my site has no advertisements.

    Teacherman
     
  28. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010


    Everything you want to know about Print Inverted reading and writing is on my site. http://www.pireading.com

    Thanks for your interest,
    Teacherman
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Nov 6, 2010

    Every time this topic gets posted, it always gets very heated. I don't understand why. It feels sometimes like the OP is very...aggressive? in showing others about this method. It feels, at least to me, like a "if you don't do it this way, you're wrong and bad" thing, and that approach is not the best way to get me to try something.

    I'm speaking for myself here and no one else. I just get a funny feeling when this topic pops up, as it does from time to time.
     
  30. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 6, 2010

    I couldn't agree more...
    Teacherman
     
  31. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 7, 2010

    Agree. Teacherman, you are so passionate about your cause. I get that. I think we all do. But Caesar is right-sometimes your approach is very high-pressure salesman type.

    I'm speaking for myself here, but in this day of RTI, at my school we cannot just start using off the wall methods simply because we read about it on a website (or watched a video, as the case may be). Any intervention we use with our kids MUST be research based, approved by the SAT and RTI teams, and proven OVER and OVER again as a reliable method of intervention.

    I believe this came up the last time we had this discussion, but one Danish study in 1984 does not qualify as research based. And success with 2 children in one classroom definitely does not either.

    I watched your video. I also visited your website. More power to ya. If this is approved by the school you are in, keep it up. I'm all for kids being successful. But - and I'm trying to be very nice here - to be honest, the video I viewed didn't really seem like the PI was the cause of the success. You, the teacher, really lead them to the correct spelling, using methods we all use. Compare to another word. Listen to the sounds. Look at the words again-are you missing something. Writing it upside down? Um, ok.

    I'm not being "mean" to teacherman. I'm being honest.
     
  32. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 7, 2010

    Oh, and another thing...I'm not going to pay $34 to view that Danish study either, and while I'm sure you did a fine job of summarizing it, I'm not willing to take your word for it. Sorry.
     
  33. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 7, 2010

    The bottom line has been laid out.


    Several of the senior teachers on this web site will NEVER accept you and your efforts to get them to accept you are viewed as a sales pitch instead of something of possible value.

    I wish you and your children well, but suggest you give up on this group of people. The senior people have spoke and the junior pay grades have remained silent.


    If any of you think I'm wrong, please have the courage to let me know just as you had the courage to post on this forum......don't sit quietly thinking something of me that you lack the courage to say to me.

    My life and my teaching isn't defined by this web site. I prefer it to be enriched by it, but I won't let it define me and I don't agree with much of what has been said here.
     
  34. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Nov 7, 2010


    Whoa. Where is all this coming from? If you don't want to be here, then leave. If you think that everyone is rude and unhelpful and dismissive, then go. I, however, will choose to stay. Are we not allowed to disagree and express our opinions? I kind of thought that was how things worked on a message board.

    I don't believe that anyone in this thread has been rude. I think people have asked legitimate questions and shared legitimate feelings and opinions. We are educators, and it's our job to ensure that what we're doing in our classrooms is best for students. It should be supported by evidence, not anecdotal stories, which is what this appears to be. If the OP were to post current, peer-reviewed research about this topic, I'm sure it would be well received.
     
  35. teacher333

    teacher333 Devotee

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 7, 2010

    Whatever happened to the camaraderie (sp?) on this web site - I am chalking all of this back and forth silliness to everyone having a bad year in the classroom??? LOL! As a special ed teacher, the one thing I have learned is you do WHATEVER works - I think that is all Teacherman wanted us to see, a way of doing something differently. Do you all need to embrace it, run out tomorrow and do it in your own classrooms - NO! People, lighten up here - I usually enjoy coming onto this site, have not been on here for a while due to school obligations, but now am feeling sorry that I came here tonight.
     
  36. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Nov 7, 2010

    Camaraderie doesn't mean blind devotion or acceptance.

    I love getting new ideas from here. I just like those ideas to be of the tried-and-true variety.

    And, for the record, I'm having a pretty good year. My skepticism isn't about a bad attitude on my part. It's more like due diligence in planning.
     
  37. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 7, 2010

    Um, ok.

    Yes, I think you're wrong.

    I'm not sure if I'm a "senior" or a "junior", but I really don't give a hoot what you think I am...I am just as entitled to an opinion about this or any other topic on this discussion board as anyone else, and if I choose to post that opinion, I will. Whether I am in the majority or the minority.

    And please, don't put words in my mouth. For you to say that I or anyone else would NEVER accept this method is just wrong. First of all, there are plenty of people (perhaps those are the juniors?) who posted that they were willing to try this PI stuff. I did not count, but from memory I would estimate that just about as many people said they would try it as said they would not.

    If I am introduced to some recent, relevant, reliable research, I would be delighted to browse that study and evaluate it. But, and I reiterate, 2 kids on a homemade video posted on a discussion board does not constitute research, nor does it merit having a go in my classroom. I'll stick to proven methods, thank you very much.

    If I continually post threads about allowing my math kids to do their math facts with their shoes off, and video them doing their facts with their shoes off, and push members to allow kids to do their facts with their shoes off, and imply that NOT allowing kids to take their shoes off was detrimental to their improvement in math facts, but fail to provide any research other than my own observations...well, I shouldn't be too surprised when the professional educators of this discussion board (seniors or juniors) question my methods and/or motivation.
     
  38. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 7, 2010

    Alright, here's is what I'm seeing with quotes.


    This is what happens in teacher lounges constantly and what I worked hard to defeat as a leader. This is also what destroys relationships between people.

    This is asking questions that are ONLY meant to perpetuate an argument and have no acceptable answers without being honest about where you stand.

    I will be up front and honest right now. I did NOT tolerate this from my people in the service and I'm not going to associate with people who think it's o'k to behave in this manner.


    Aliceacc
    Not trying to beat a dead horse, but...

    Do you have permission from their parents and from your principal to post videos of your students online?

    Why even say this? Alice is only looking to start an argument as any answer he gives will be WRONG. His answer was yes I have permission and she continued to attack. If she had an issue despite legality, be honest and up front about it instead of setting it up for a conflict with no end.

    czacza
    You asked permission to upload to your website...and yes, I know...websites are public, but did the parents know you would be posting links to your website and their kids' videos on other sites?

    He answered the question and now we have someone playing pile on instead of accepting the response to Alice's question. If this were an honest and respectful discussion, the argument would be over with his answer to the question. Instead we're questioning his honesty in answering Alice. After all, no reasonable parent could possibly disagree with these two.


    czacza
    Just a question: At what point do you turn their world back right side up?

    We can't accept this as being at all acceptable and have to find yet another avenue of attack. The argument MUST continue with no right answers from him.




    It goes on and on in this thread.



    Many of the people I once respected are a part of this stupidity. If you have an issue, adult up an be honest to that issue instead of perpetuating an argument like the kids you teach. I respect honest people who can honestly disagree instead of just chasing an argument.


    Take care and I wish you well.
     
  39. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Nov 7, 2010

    Did you really say that Alice just asked a question to start an argument? Really??
     
  40. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 7, 2010

    I guess I don't understand how asking a question...a relevant question...equates to perpetuating an argument.

    And I also don't understand how we're supposed to "adult up" and "be honest to an issue" without asking questions.
     
  41. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 7, 2010

    You tell me.


    How could the OP have answered the question and NOT received a negative response from her?


    If he said that he didn't have permission, she would have attacked and rightly so.


    He said that he did have permission and he was still attacked.



    Please tell me how this is NOT perpetuating an argument. He was wrong regardless of how he answered her and her response clearly demonstrates this. (see below)



    YES. Alice was not asking an honest question. She KNEW there was no right answer when she asked the question and the argument went from there as others played pile on with disregard.


    As I said before, this is what destroys relationships.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Mrs. K.
Total: 296 (members: 2, guests: 266, robots: 28)
test