Very worried about what Cuomo said

Discussion in 'General Education' started by DamienJasper, May 6, 2020.

  1. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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  3. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    He is my governor and I don't listen to a whole lot of his "opinions".
    "The New York State United Teachers union said in a statement: “NYSUT believes in the education of the whole child.”

    The statement continued: “Remote learning, in any form, will never replace the important personal connection between teachers and their students.”

    I personally am not worried about my job at this point.
     
  4. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Why aren't you? (I'm not trying to argue; I'm honestly curious). As a governor and one of the world's richest people, they wield considerable power. It sounds to me like they're talking about all online private schools, all the time. Granted I don't live in New York, but it all started with one state ordering a shut down and here we are.
     
  5. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    Worry does no good.

    Plus, I know what my area is like. I know the likelihood of all kids having technology and access to internet. I know how many have parents/guardians who can stay home with them and how many could actually help anyway. We currently have zero private schools, and I don’t see us having any soon.

    I spent my energy doing the here and now.
     
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  6. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I can't honestly answer your question without talking about politics which is not allowed.
    There would have be a HUGE over hall on the teacher education programs. They would have to TRAIN teachers how to teach this way. They would have to set up schools and programs this way from scratch. How long do you think that will take?
     
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  7. RaiderFan87

    RaiderFan87 Rookie

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    Do you have hobbies, @DamienJasper? Or a significant other? Pets? Something that’ll take your mind off worrying so much about things that are out of your locust of control?!
     
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  8. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    @RaiderFan87

    Not to be difficult, but usually work was my escape from other worries. Maybe I'm just hardwired to be pessimistic or fatalistic, but I've always had a near impossible time to just find something else to 'turn off worries' like a light switch.
     
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  9. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I find myself in a surprising (at least to me) situation where one of my students is only getting online for the bare minimum of online instruction he needs in order to get his packet work done.

    Why?

    For reasons only briefly explained to me, a lot of his past trauma wells up with... screens. They are a trigger for him and can lead to meltdowns.

    A bit of research... he's not the only student out there that really shouldn't be doing online learning as his main source of learning.

    While I anticipate an increase in online learning, perhaps some optimistic fusion of that and traditional learning, there will be no mass overhaul of teachers in the next few years. Widespread online learning, if that is indeed the future, is going to take some time to get all the bugs worked out.

    Bugs such as:

    How will the needs of students like mine be met?
    How will IEP goals be met?
    Where will students be taught? Will we require a mass culture shift to have at least one caretaker home? Will we keep our brick-and-mortar buildings and just have the students file in and grab a computer?
    How can we make online learning superior for enough students and convince enough of the public it is so?
     
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  10. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    So what do you make of this? Am I over-interpreting what Cuomo said? Was he just running off at the mouth? I mean, he is the one who said unemployed New Yorkers could "just sign up" for an essential job after all. And what is with Bill Gates making himself the self appointed expert on everything?
     
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  11. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I don't think he has been talking to many parents about this. I think from a distance, this online learning thing could seem like the solution. I think these past 7 weeks has shown, that it really has resulted in less learning for the vast majority of students.

    As far as whether to listen to Cuomo, Gates, or anyone else. I think it is a mistake to not listen to someone, but also a mistake to believe someone all of the time. All leaders (good or bad) can surprise us by being wrong sometimes or being right sometimes. This is especially true when they talk about a distant future. I think we need to be humble enough to know that anyone has the potential to teach us something, and wise enough to think critically and see that any person can be wrong sometimes or even a lot.
     
  12. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    For a term. Governor's are not kings. They can be voted out. I don't know about term limits in NY for the position of Governor, but I suspect that he can't run forever.
     
  13. CaliforniaRPCV

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    There is always something to learn when you are forced out of the box. The real worry is that the people implementing changes, say Cuomo, will not be the ones that learned the lessons.
     
  14. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    My principal said it's his belief that we will start the school year with some kind of hybrid/online model. I'm inclined to agree with him.

    He also said that we have a tremendous opportunity right now to rethink a lot of the ways we have been doing things. Again, I'm inclined to agree with him.

    I attended my first IEP on Zoom the other day. It went very well. All I could think of were all of the times that parents were no-shows for IEP meetings because of things like childcare, transportation, work, etc. Sure, internet connectivity is an issue in many communities, but it is an issue that can be overcome. But I've also had countless parents who couldn't make an IEP or parent conference because they couldn't afford to take an entire afternoon off from work. But those same parents probably can afford to take an hour off if the meeting is held remotely.

    I have students who NEVER asked question in class who now ask them privately in chat when we are on Zoom. They will answer questions the same way.

    Here is another thing, somewhat of an elephant in the room. Most of us spend a huge amount of instructional time and emotional energy keeping disengaged students from disengaging other students as well. Humans need mental stimulation to survive. And if my lesson on reflexive pronouns or active and passive voice is not stimulating to a small minority of of students in my class (which I guarantee it isn't), then those kids will seek mental stimulation elsewhere, usually in the form of disrupting the learning of the students who actually are engaged or at least trying to be so. What happens now is that the same students who were engaged before no longer need wait for me to deal with the disengaged students. Sure, the disengaged are still disengaged. But I'm pretty sure that a lot of students are learning more, not less, in distance learning than they were in regular, in-person class.

    And guess what. Those disengaged students are starting to email me when they don't know how to do an assignment. I'm happy to help them, and as a result, some of those kids are actually starting to pay attention to first instruction.

    And finally, I'm pretty sure that I'm still the only person who can do what I do. No one else can figure out what my students need to learn and how best they can learn it on both an individual and collective basis - not their parents, not the school district, not some software publishing company, not some educational internet startup, and definitely not some bureaucrat at the state department of education.

    You might say "But that won't stop them from trying." Well, sure. They might try. However I guarantee that if they were to lay us all off and replace us with computer programs, homeschooling, or online foreign teachers with a 1000:1 class ratio, they would begging for us to come back after a very short while.
     
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  15. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    My school has used a hybrid learning model for almost five years. It is NOT an online school, but more of a flipped learning model. Even now, we're able to keep things fairly normal by having actual drive-through service. Students drive up and call, we come out (wearing masks and gloves) to collect paper packets and deliver their next assignments. Our kiddos are thriving because they can still get in touch with us via our Nextiva apps to get 1-1 attention.

    I promise, those of you who are nervous, provided you have asynchronous supports in place and staff to handle home visits for those who are not with the program, this model works beautifully.
     
  16. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I'm not surprised at all; I said from the beginning of all of this that privatizers would use this situation as a way to worm their way in further. My understanding is that NY has strong unions, so that's good. I also think that privatizers are underestimating how much parents are not going to support this. I don't know any parent who isn't desperate for their child to go back to school right now. I'm pretty sure no one is thinking, "Wow, this is great- let's keep doing it!"

    There is an extremely small number of students at my school who are benefiting from remote learning and are more successful in this setting than traditional school. On my sped caseload, this is 1 of 25 kids. He has severe ADHD and is overstimulated in a regular school setting. I've never in 10 years of teaching had a kid who literally just couldn't pay attention even in a small group until this kid. There were other behavior and academic issues at well.

    He's learned more with online learning than he would have at school. He also has a crazy involved mom who is sitting there with him for hours per day being a 1:1 support without just giving answers. How many parents have the skills and ability to do that? No distractions because it's jut the two of them at home- there are no siblings and dad is working outside the home. The other 24 are learning squat during this time. We put out videos; they don't watch them. We offer "live" supports, they don't show up. If they're doing assignments at all it's rushing through to just click "done" or parents are giving answers/doing the work for them just to get it done. I should point out that I work with primary aged students- I could see how remote learning may be more successful with secondary, although I'd still argue it's not for all students. You're not going to convince me or 99% of parents that their 5-7 year old is going to learn better sitting at a computer all day, IMO.

    For my one student and the few others in our school who are thriving during this time, it might behoove them to look into the public online school options which already exist. The rest of the students need to be back in school next year.
     
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  17. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Here's where maybe I get into too much thinking. But maybe I'm just ahead of the curve. No prizes for guessing state budgets are going to have problems, and that includes us. Maybe governors figure "Well, we can't fund the schools now, so let's privatize and push everyone online". I wonder that about Cuomo; he's made a lot of noise about NY's budget shortfalls due to all of this. I'm in Idaho, where I think we're slightly better positioned that NY, but still...
     
  18. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I think you are reading way too much into this.
     
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  19. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Maybe. Thinking too much has cost me sleep more than enough times in my life. But then, there's a lot to think about where the future is concerned right now.

    I wish I had your confidence.
     
  20. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    I think it’s not so much confidence as it is being able to differentiate between those things that are within your control and things that are not within your control.
     
  21. DamienJasper

    DamienJasper Rookie

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    Maybe confidence was a bad word; wish I could not 'read too much into' things. But I guess it's sort of like saying "don't think about blinking". Bet you're noticing how much you blink now, aren't you?
     
  22. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    It depends on what you pay attention to. If you do these 4 things, you probably would be much happier.

    1. Go to positive websites. There are so many good things going on in the world, but the press focuses on the bad. Here is one to make your home page: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

    2. Read positive books about people who have made a difference in the world.
    3. Listen to uplifting positive music.
    4. Spend less time listening to politics and news. It not only makes people depressed, it makes people feel powerless. It's not because it is so negative, but because it focuses on the things we have little control. Limit it to only once a twice a day for less than 30 minutes. The most depressed people I know spend a lot of time watching the news online or on TV.
     
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  23. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I don't know how long you have been teaching, but I have been teaching long enough to truly wonder why we have as much technology as we do, yet we fail to integrate it into our instruction outside of the mundane. I love the concept of flipped classrooms, but it may well take us thinking outside of the box through this kind of experience to encourage a broader acceptance. That's not privatizing anything, but using what is at our disposal. As far as it "starting with one state shutting down, and here we are", well, as a Covid survivor, I am grateful that the other states and governments saw the wisdom of one state's actions, if that is how you see it, because our nation has already lost 73,000+ people to this disease. I can only imagine the death toll if it had remained business as usual without the mitigation efforts.

    As for Bill Gates, he's not calling himself an expert on everything. However, this is a brilliant man who has no need to pursue making more money, so he and his wife have spent a great deal of time using their money to help those in need, around the world. We should all be so generous. That said, I do believe that Bill Gates has long been a visionary about what is possible with technology and how it can be used to its best potential.

    OP, you do tend to see things as glass half empty fairly persistently. Does that make you feel better or only cause you worry about things you really have little control over? I have always thought that the following is pure genius, and I do embrace the concept:
    "God grant me the serenity
    To accept the things I cannot change;
    Courage to change the things I can;
    And the wisdom to know the difference between the two."

    IMHO, to rail against the wind, when you cannot stop it from howling, is the epitome of wasted effort. Spending that wasted time doing something that can make a difference in the world, or even in a single person's life is courage personified. Understanding the difference between the two scenarios denotes wisdom and knowledge that can change your life.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  24. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Arguments can be made back and forth about this topic all day long...

    The biggest obstacle to turning our schools into online learning communities is that the majority of parents have to work and can't leave their children home alone.
     
  25. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    This would only work if every family had one capable stay at home adult. Otherwise, this cannot and will not be instituted for all.
     
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  26. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    That's it.
     
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  27. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    Exactly.
     
  28. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    So, I may be in the minority here, but I kindof hope we move to more online or some kind of hybrid. Our district has an online campus already, and it's extremely popular, to the point of them having a waiting list to get students enrolled. The school where I teach has been working to be 1 to 1 with devices, and we are only a few Chromebook carts away from having a cart in every classroom, or at least every classroom that: isn't already a computer lab, or isn't some kind of lab (kitchen, art, engineering, etc.) Plus, we'll still have 2 computer labs open, plus computers in the library for research. We've been using Google Classroom and a hybrid technique for awhile. I love it! I would love to see fewer kids each day (classes of 10-15 instead of 34-38) and have all assignments online. I'm not worried about my job, I'm worried about not being able to do my job if nothing changes.
     
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  29. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Sarge,
    Wow, I didn't think of that, but that could be huge. IEPs and Parent-teacher conferences wouldn't drag on for weeks waiting for those parents who can't get off of work or have such a long commute. Thanks for opening up my eyes more on this.

    What we must remember is technology isn't killing our jobs right now, it is saving them. Because of technology, we have been able to do distance learning at home while this pandemic is going on. What if this was 40 years ago with no internet and no computers? Some might just decide to cancel school and we'd join the unemployed. This is not only true for teachers, but so many other professions. Most people I know didn't lose their jobs, but are working from home. Next year, nearly all of us might have paychecks all year as teachers even though students probably will have to do some schooling from home. Thank you technology.
     
  30. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    :yeahthat:
     
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  31. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    So here is another elephant it the room: Suspension

    Most places have stopped doing it because it was inequitable, didn't work, students missed school, and districts lost money.

    But if schools could still get ADA for a suspended student because they did not lose instruction because they could get that instruction online, and if that online instruction could actually be something that turned the suspension into a meaningful consequence, then perhaps we could start rethinking this.

    Disclaimer: While I do not think home suspension is in any way useful, I am a big fan on in-school-suspension and Saturday school as a consequence.
     
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  32. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    A few years ago I had a good student who happened to get into a fight in school. Both girls were suspended. On the day she was suspended, we were going to be doing some major prep work for an activity we were doing in class the following day. During class time she joined us online. It allowed her to participate in class while still serving her suspension.
     
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  33. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    There's nothing alarming about his comments. He's saying we need to look at the way we are doing school. It doesn't match our current world, nor the future. He never said teachers aren't needed. If anything, our great need is being highlighted. However, the way we do school is antiquated. We can improve, and hopefully state budgets (when they can) will allow for that. I don't see anything alarming about that.
     
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  34. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    What would in-school suspension and Saturday School look like at the elementary level?
     
  35. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I would guess that the majority of suspensions occur because of some school infraction. That part of the equation is removed when online learning is the mode of education. Any student infraction would now be happening at home, which would be the parent's bailiwick.

    So, the easy way to deal with a student acting up while on a zoom type of interaction is the mute button.
     
  36. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I can see at some point the parents complaining that the kids are acting up at home and want the schools to do something about it.
     
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  37. otterpop

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    I agree with the NYSUT statement whole-heartedly, although I'm not sure certain policitians care about students' personal connections and emotional well-being. I can't imagine moving to full-time remote learning though, solely on the basis of parents needing childcare. We are not babysitters and I hate being compared to that, but several (if not most) parents depend on the school system to supervise, educate, and even feed their children during the day while they are working. If we were to suddenly switch to remote instruction permanently, parents would be left high-and-dry for options on what to do with their children during the day. It would result in a lot of unsafe home situations and children being left unsupervised when parents felt they had no other choice. Unless there was state sponsored childcare available regardless of family income to replace schools, I can't see schools being able to shut down.

    I'd like to see remote learning offered as an option for families, however. It does work well for some families and students. Some of my students have struggled a lot, but some have done their best work all year since beginning working at home.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  38. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    We actually had to do an expulsion hearing during the stay at home order. Apparently, some violations of the computer use policy are so terrible that they can result in needing to be removed from even an online classroom.
     
  39. otterpop

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    :eek: Wow. Although, thinking about it, I can understand the need. What other options are offered? Do they do packet learning, or are they simply no longer the district's responsibility?
     
  40. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    When do these computer violations become the parent's problem?
     
  41. whizkid

    whizkid Devotee

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    So I guess they'll suspend them and send them home?
     

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