Very very short honeymoon period…..

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Pi-R-Squared, Aug 19, 2023.

  1. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Aug 19, 2023

    Our new P has definitely laid down the law. For example, a regular visitor to the Ps office would have had a “talking to” with the previous P. On the first day of school, he mouthed off to a teacher, was send to the office, and received 3 days ISS!! The hats that were worn openly and defiantly have all but disappeared and cell phones usage has decreased substantially. That’s the good news. However, it seems like the honeymoon period is already over. Last year, it felt as if it took until October for the antics to start. The students seem rowdier and the ISS room (it’s the 1st year where the AP houses and monitors them) has been occupied very early and often. And we just finished the 2nd week of school!
     
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  3. miss-m

    miss-m Groupie

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    Aug 19, 2023

    I was thinking the same thing this week; it feels like the honeymoon phase is getting shorter and shorter. We’re only 3 days in and it felt like it was fading already.
    Glad your new P is whipping things into shape though! It definitely helps to have admin who are firm and consistent with school expectations.
     
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  4. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Aug 19, 2023

    It sounds like your administration is attempting a variation of "don't smile until Thanksgiving" method of discipline.
     
  5. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Aug 20, 2023

    Honestly, if the way that drivers are breaking every kind of rule and law openly is any indication, this defiant behavior with the students doesn't surprise me much. Furthermore, the analogy about drivers only caring about themselves and not caring about the safety of everyone else on the road is valid, I would expect some parental push-back on students receiving ISS and such, because the attitude now seems to learn how , to do as much as you think you can get away with, despite the rules or expectations of those who are supposedly in charge! Not sure why the behavior shifts are happening, but would think that remote learning, when coupled with far less accountability has had something to do with this behavior shift in adults and students. There just seems to be this feeling that constantly pushing the boundaries and rules is the new normal, and following rules and established boundaries is simply "wrong" because "rules are made to be broken." I wish I could believe that I am just imagining this new normal, but examples of such behaviors have come up in conversations with people of all ages, with most people not sure how this "new normal" got started, but they are aware that there seems to have been a definite shift in how far people will go to get the smallest of their perceived "advantage" with virtually no concern for what the rules are, and somehow they feel they are above the law or expectation of codes of conduct, which becomes contagious among everyone they interact with. I think this principal may be on the right track by being proactive instead of reactive, but think that there may be real pushback either by the students, themselves, if they feel "entitled", or by their parents. I will definitely follow this thread to see if anyone else is dealing with these attitude "shifts".
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2023
  6. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I feel like I am in a time machine and just visited my past teacher self. My thought use to be the tougher you are on student behavior, the less problems you have. The larger "the stick" the better. That only got me to be mediocre at Classroom Management. Fred Jones and lots of other people showed me prevention and classroom management tools are key.

    With so many Ps going soft on discipline, I can understand the relief felt with a P who is actually doing something about discipline. I sense though that he is thinking that a large stick will be the panacea for discipline problems. No, not at all! Training is the key. The PDs and promotion of books on classroom management seem to be replaced by more test prep and publishing company PDs. A teacher just told me that they had 10 hours of PDs over the new math series. Yikes! The #1 first step in classroom management is preventing discipline problems before they occur. It sounds like more emphasis to prevention might be helpful at this school.
     
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  7. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Honestly, I would figure students got away with way too much the last 5 years cuz getting sent to the office resulted in a “talking” and a return to the classroom. Only events such as possession / usage of vapes led to ISS. Hats weren’t supposed to worn and teachers would tell students to remove hats only to have them put back on. Over time, we teachers gave up enforcement because we had no back up. This year, the hat goes to the office and it returned after school. 2nd time a parent picks it up. 3rd time the hat is never returned. So, as of now, there aren’t many hats worn.
     
  8. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Aug 21, 2023

    As those of us who are parents are aware (if we have been learning since first taking on parenthood), empty threats are quickly ignored by our children, who realize, much faster than we did, that parents will get distracted or forgetful, and consequences will not be enforced, meaning that our children have learned how far they can push back without any real consequence, and parents allow themselves to believe that their actions have yielded positive outcomes. Many schools use similar techniques and the students, who have already learned how to appear to be contrite when confronted with misdeeds, are able to get away with breaking rules as long as they know how to "appear" contrite at the right moment, with the right people.

    Now, with all of that said, I do believe in prevention and classroom management as a superior method of dealing with students and classroom/school management, but there needs to be buy-in by more rather than less of the staff for the training to be more uniform and consistent. This requires consistency and belief in the core principles not only by the admin and staff, but by the students and their parents to really be successful. Don't get me wrong - there will always be individuals who will feel they can get around the overriding principles of following rules and accepting the logical consequences that go with ignoring rules. But that should not be an excuse for giving up on management and the expectation that rules exist for a reason and that all of the rules are meant for everyone. Once the rules become very flexible and consequences are poorly enforced, the whole system starts to break down, and the break down accelerates. I would like to point out that consequences for varied behaviors are not only negative acts - positive consequences for doing the right things are life affirming and build a strong sense of self worth and pride that can stay with individuals through their entire lives. I also feel that the belief in doing the right thing builds character and supports good citizenship skills. I worked with an administration once that was very skilled in creating this positive belief in doing the right thing and caring about those we needed to interact with on a daily basis. Students would often make fun of the "system" when first exposed to how it was implemented, but the buy-in would continue to go up the longer the students were exposed to the principles. It does require buy-in by the majority of the staff, so that the culture is more uniform and everyone is on the same page with how things work. When there is buy-in, it can truly be a great environment. Great principals can often lead their staffs and the students to a high degree of acceptance and participation in this kind of school culture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
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  9. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Aug 21, 2023

    The student I referenced at the beginning of this thread? He got sent off today.
     
  10. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    What's sent off? Suspended?
     
  11. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Sep 5, 2023

    military school / boot camp
     

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