UPDATE: Georgia cheating scandal

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by kcjo13, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Exactly....you don't hear about the grades or scores it is all about I just need Sally or Johnny to "pass", what about Sally or Johnny knowing and understanding the material you want them to "pass" or you hear I need Sally or Johnny to graduate........forget the fact they do it by the skin of their teeth and are pretty much uneducated when they do graduate but who cares because when the state gives your school and district their "report card" your school and district would have passed as well.
     
  2. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Their are many faces to a "Title 1" school some may be on paper but when you get into the meat of it they have involved parents, kids who want to learn all the things many hope for and then you have those Title 1 schools the complete opposite because the majority of the student body are low income whereas the Title 1 school in neighborhood B may not have as high % of lower economic uninvolved parents.

    There are a few Title 1 schools where I live that I would have never thought were considered to be Title 1, so not all Title 1 schools are alike.
     
  3. bros

    bros Phenom

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    No, racketeering per Georgia law is a scheme where any act of bribery, counterfeiting, theft, embezzlement, fraud, and other things of that nature are when a group of individuals knowingly commit at least two RICO qualifying offenses within a ten year period. The teachers were bribed (bonuses) and committed fraud (changing the test answers).

    In Georgia, the defendants face a maximum of 20 years in prison, minimum of 5 (however, this can be changed to probation, house arrest, etc.) along with a fine of up to 3x the amount they got from the scheme.

    People who don't pay their payment plans on time, usually.

    Courts are very flexible, even with large fines/restitution amounts. As long as you pay the agreed upon amount every specified length of time, they don't mind.

    It would certainly be interesting if all of those sped heads who push for inflated grades & other things to push students with disabilities through the system got brought up on charges.
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    And that's basically what I said. If they don't pay they go back to prison.

    The problem for many is they don't make much in wages, can't afford to live on what they make, and have fines, court fees, and lawyer fees (that free lawyer isn't free in many states if you don't prevail). Even a mandatory agreed up on amount can be too much to pay every month. Granted it is their problem for doing the crime, but the reality is a lot can't pay.
     
  5. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    It is not just the "sped heads" doing that.
     
  6. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    What's the betting that once all these teachers are behind bars the politicians in Georgia will be claiming that literacy rates in jail have increased!

    We are watching this with interest in the UK as we are moving to results based pay and we shall be seeing the same sort of cases over here soon. However they won't have enough prisons to lock us all up.
     
  7. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    Or what? What authority do I have as the teacher to order them to take more responsibility?

    About a third of my parents don't show up for conferences. About half do not speak English and are in no position to assist their kids academically. Almost all of them are living in poverty. How would you propose that I "make it clear" to them? They want the best for their kids, but they're just trying to survive.

    Don't you think it's at least a little bit interesting that problems like cheating scandals don't happen much in affluent schools?

    Not all parents give a fig if the teacher lays down the law with them and demands their support.
     
  8. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    Can we start with Michelle Rhee? She set up a system at DCPS where if the kids didn't make the grade, the teachers and administrators got fired on the spot. Thus, scaring the pants off of remaining staff. Then she decided to give bonuses to everyone else who "magically" (and by most accounts, fraudulently) boosted up test grades. So, by Georgia standards, she most likely created a whole lot of felons.

    When are we going to throw her in prison? Nah, it's much easier to focus on locking up teachers. Meanwhile, people like her created the system that we have.
     
  9. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Results based pay when it comes to teachers or any career where you really can't control the results is for the birds.

    I can teach the kids straight from the test it doesn't mean when they take it they will do well......it is what THEY chose to do.....I have done my part by teaching them the material now they must do their part by showing what they know.
     
  10. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Then we are back to the old question...

    Has someone been taught something if they have not learned it?
     
  11. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Good question.......I personnally think the pacing for many classes and many students is too fast.....not enough time is being spent on making sure they learned and UNDERSTOOD.
     
  12. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    This is certainly the way I'd like to see things. I'm jealous of your area.
     
  13. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Yes, it would. But I doubt it. Still, gives me a bit more leverage when I'm approached by the sped dept. (and athletic dept.) to "help a kid out."
     
  14. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    The bolded has been going on long before NCLB that is nothing new.
     
  15. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    I'm curious to know of CCSS helps this issue at all. Admittedly I do not know much about CCSS and what exactly it entails. Our school is moving towards CCSS, and have a few PDs this year to comb through it and I think implement it next year. One thing I have heard, though, is CCSS is intentioned to go deeper into concepts, and "cover" less content.
     
  16. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

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    But there is also the real possibility that the student HAS learned it, but just chooses not to do the necessary thinking and put in the required effort to complete the task on the test...
     
  17. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Yep like "Christmas Treeing" the answers on a multiple choice test....or on a computer test just click an answer and be done in a matter of minutes, is that really a reflection on the teacher and their ability? That is something entirely out of the teachers control and the teacher should not have her job nor income hinged on that.
     
  18. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Disagree. Classroom culture and expectations is part of the teahers control.
     
  19. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Unrealistic.
     
  20. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    Please tell me how a teacher can control how a students completes a test????? I can set the expectation all day long but I can not MAKE them do anything.....I can expect them to do the right thing but I can't make them.

    From some of your responses your school and classroom differs greatly from many others and boy how we all wish we had what you have.:D:D
     
  21. katfzl

    katfzl Rookie

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    Interesting how many seem ok with sending teachers to jail for rigging numbers, but the bankers who brought down the economy with their numerical shenanigans didn't do one day of jail time. I have to wonder if the prosecutors investment in bringing down the teachers and a test cheating ring has more to do with charter schools, and less of a concern about the "children."
    Citigroup employed the same type of tactics to produce hundreds of billions of dollars in fraud. Ask yourself, what became of them? Not much...
     
  22. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    ICAM. When we gave the state assessments and the PARCCs this year, we had kids walk out and refuse to finish testing and a few refused to even report to the testing room because they "just didn't want to take it/they didn't feel like it." Many kids just clicked any answer because "the test was too hard" and they "didn't feel like trying/reading."

    Since there is no immediate consequence to failing these types of tests and we can't force a kid to take the test, some kids just don't care how they perform - which is not the teacher's fault.

    Exactly. I can say that when I taught 6th grade, it was much easier to get kids to do anything. But, when a 16, 17, 18, or 19 -year old does not want to do something, it is nearly impossible unless you can threaten them with a real consequence that means something to them.
     
  23. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

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    and many left with "Golden Parachutes" these teachers were handcuffed in court following the verdict and taken away.
     
  24. The Natural Log

    The Natural Log Rookie

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    This is the biggest issue. I would have no problem with the student scores counting towards my evaluation IF they actually counted for something (graduation, college admissions, etc.) for the students.
     
  25. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I had a student come into my testing session, after having missed over twenty days (block scheduling) throughout the semester. The principal (!) told the kid to just sit quietly during the exam - his score did not matter because he was going to fail for attendance reasons anyhow. But if he sat quietly so the school wouldn't get dinged with a no-show, the principal would see that he got credit for an elective he was failing.

    Of course that Christmas Tree score impacted MY rating, one component of my evaluation, the next year.
     
  26. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    But, if I am following your post, that doesn't mean that many who have chimed in here are OK with that outcome. Not one of us is in the position to bring charges and pronounce a verdict that makes the treatment of the bankers more equitable. In fact, from your post, I sense that perhaps you would be OK with jail time for these misdeeds. And that reminds me of a story. . .

    A motorist with a heavy foot (probably in NJ ;)) was pulled over by the State Police for speeding. This motorist was not good at keeping his temper in check or his mouth shut. He gets red in the face as he yells at the trooper, "There were lots of cars going as fast as I was, or even faster! Why aren't you chasing them down instead of me? You should be going after real criminals and leave law abiding citizens to carry on their lives." The trooper was quiet for a spell as he kept taking down information from the driver's license. Finally, just as the irate driver was getting ready to unleash another verbal onslaught, the trooper asked the driver a question. "Have you ever been fishing?" The driver got red in the face and retorted, "Of course I've been fishing, do you think I am dumb? What does that have to do with this ticket?" The trooper kept on writing and finally looked up, with a smile. "Well, sir," the trooper replied, "when you go fishing do you really think you are going to catch every fish in the lake?" The trooper handed over the ticket, told the driver to think about that, and to "have a nice day," as he returned to his car and drove slowly away.

    We may not be able to get equal justice for all, but that doesn't mean we simply stop trying to get at least some of them.
     
  27. olivecoffee

    olivecoffee Companion

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    I disagree. You can set the classroom culture and expectations all you want, but it is never in a teacher's control. You can't control how students perform regardless of your expectations and effort. The student is the only person in control of how they perform academically, on tests and homework. Like some of the posters have said, walking out or Christmas treeing bubbles has nothing to do with the teacher and everything to do with the student.

    I'll be honest and say I was a pretty crappy high school student. If education 10-14 years ago were anything like today, or if Michelle Rhee were in my district, my teachers would've gotten reprimanded for things out of their control. I was smart and knew the material, but chose not to apply it. I didn't care about standardized testing and just bubbled in patterns. Who was in control then: me or the teacher?
     
  28. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Here, the state assessments - and eventually the PARRCs - do count as a graduation requirement but many kids still don't care or do not want to make a real effort.

    For the non-state assessments, like district benchmarks used for SLOs; I had kids hand the scantron answer sheet back to me as soon as I handed them out because they "don't give AF about the test" since it has nothing to do with their grade. Yeah, this makes me angry but there is nothing I can do about it.
     

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