Universal Pre-Kindergarten, Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Preschool' started by Pre-K Teacher 1, May 30, 2011.

  1. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    What do you think about universal pre-k? This is the question I have been reflecting on this week. Are you happy with the public school arena? How would this affect our profession? Would we lose the individual choice that is present now in our profession? I'm reflecting a lot these days on where I see this field headed. Please share your thoughts.
     
  2.  
  3. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 30, 2011

    It is so much more complicated than most people realize.

    Questions to consider include:

    -Should 4 year olds be in school 5 days a week instead of running and playing and exploring the community?
    -Should parents who stay home to raise their children feel like they have to send their children?
    -Who is going to pay for it and how?
    -What model will be used?
    -Will they all have to have the same academic model and method of delivery?
    -Will they tolerate people like WaProvider and I who use an emergent approach?
    -What education will be required? I hear HeadStarts are heading for requiring A.A. degrees soon. Or will they need B.A.s like State Preschools?
    -Do higher institutions offer enough classes to cover all the people who will need the education?
    -Will they pay us more? Offer benefits?
    -What will happen to all the teachers who can't afford the education or don't have the aptitude for school?
    -What about extended care?
    -Will it be on school sites like it is now - not the optimal situation as far as I am concerned.
    -If extended day is not included how are these kids going to be transported?
    -Do schools have the proper facilities or will private or church preschools be paid to offer classes?
    -If private ones are used, who will supervise them?
    -If private ones aren't used, are we willing to see them go out of business and people lose jobs?
    -Will people who want religious preschool or other type get a government subsidy for not using the public one?
    -How do we pay for this additional service when education is already strugging and government can't pay for what it is already commited to?
    -Can we trust politicians to create a program that is not just another grade level but is truly a developmentally appropriate environment for preschoolers?
    -Can we trust that school districts won't just make it junior kindergarten which it should not be imo?
    -Can people opt out?

    As you can probably tell, I have my reservations.
     
  4. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    I was exactly going to say that........in my area there are not classrooms like mine available in the school preK plan.

    In my area, yes there is going to be a large job shortage when it moves preK to soley school bldgs, and where by the way will that space come from.

    In my area, yes they are being housed in Kinder rooms on half day, Kinder formatted days. This isn't bad, for everyone, but it is reducing the choice factor.

    For after care the 4's are either being picked up by child care (which is a liability for all) or they are being housed in the same afterschool format that deals with 5-5th grade in room. So now we have 4's and 5th graders (11-12yrs) together. This isn't even allowed in child care!

    In my area, the districts want the monies for the 4's program to be in "general funds" which is fine I suppose. However, that will mean the 4's are using the tools designed for older children and remember the Kinder rooms have been told to move away from play ........ so where are the blocks going to come from and where will they be stored?

    I have my reservations as well, however, I do not mind focusing on if programs are producing quality environments for the children and helping them reach their potential. I think there needs to be a selection of ways that the programs can prove that we are doing our jobs, before we are told that we are failing to do so.
     
  5. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 30, 2011

    I agree - the focus has to be on quality programs but who is going to decide what that is. I also strongly agree that there should be a variety of models - it is not a one size fits all situation.
     
  6. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    When you examinie what happened to kindergarten, this is the way pre-kindergarten is headed. One of my professors shared that kindergarten started the same way; a few states here and there started with universal k and before you knew it, it was part of the public school arena.

    I don't want it to be in the public school arena! I see the problems the public schools are having with educating children. All the hoops one has to jump through to teach in a PS, the problems with teachers unions, politics, graduation rates are dropping for students, etc.

    Many people are advocating universal pre-k but I think that would lead to less choice (like public school) and will not increase outcomes for children. What about all other pivate schools and family child care programs?

    Head Start is requiring center-based classroom lead teachers to have an AA by September 2011, and 50% of center-based lead teachers nationwide to have BA by September 2013.

    I'm pretty sure universal pre-k will be paid by the tax payer. Just as kindergarten is paid by us now. All of my professors say its not a matter of universal pre-k not happening but WHEN it will happen.

    I like having choice! I don't think there is enough choice in the PS arena, so I definitely don't want those problems to become our problems. I don't believe in the cookie cutter approach and doing everything the same for everybody. PS teachers are having to follow scripted lessons and do a lot of things the SAME for all students. At least we still have some choice about what goes on in our classrooms, for the most part. JMHO
     
  7. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    -What education will be required? I hear HeadStarts are heading for requiring A.A. degrees soon. Or will they need B.A.s like State Preschools?
    -Do higher institutions offer enough classes to cover all the people who will need the education?
    -Will they pay us more? Offer benefits?


    As of September 2011 all center-based Head Start classes MUST have a lead teacher with an ECE specific AA degree.

    I think thigher education teacher education programs we have in place are a waste of time. They continue to make becoming a teacher a difficult process and require more coursework. We need less college theory practice and more internship, on the job type training. I have a master's in ECE and I can tell you that the most valuable classes I have had were all that involved internships with mentors and other teachers working side-by-side with me.

    I've been reading through many ads for the last two months and noticed that all the ads that are targeting educators for "at-risk" students in my area are requiring a BA/BS or above with Praxis in subject area or teaching license to be "highly qualified." Some even want MA/MS and specifically the degree has to be ECE related or have enough credits for a major in ECE if you have a degree in another field.

    The pay is on the same level as a PS teacher, but I just feel that more education does not make one a better teacher. This keeps many people out of some programs that could use the wisdom and expertise of more seasoned teachers. The whole teacher education hoops that we now have to go through are really discouraging. I know people that would make great teachers and have degrees but are deciding not to pursue it because of the additional cost of education and time they would have to invest in completing those classes.
     
  8. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    Yes, I agree it isn't a matter of IF there is universal PreK but rather WHEN. I do see that this is the route Kinder took. This is one reason I am rolling out of this profession. Slowly, but rolling.

    In Wa, there is, on occasion discussions of how there will be rating to allow private programs to say that they can provide the education necessary for PreK. Someday, the big wigs will decide that they can't fit all the 4's in the state into the schools we have, and will have to outsource. So far only the 4's that are at risk are in the program.

    There are just a lot of issues with the 4's in the schools....
     
  9. dcnuck

    dcnuck Companion

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    Well I live in Oklahoma and I think the majority of our schools have prekindergarten in them. I know Oklahoma has been nationally recognized at the top for their prek program. It depends on each school district how it is done. At some schools head start is partnered with the school and they have pre k through them. Some schools have half day programs and parents have to pick them up and bring them. Some have all day programs and they provide a rest period for them. The majority of schools I have been in it is still play based but with kindergarten being so academic prek involves alot of letter recognition and phonemic awareness. It just depends and what school that a person is at how pre k is treated.
     
  10. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 30, 2011

    I also want to throw this out....is it better for children or for schools?

    In our area pre-k in public schools as expanded tremendously in the last few years - from 1 or 2 in our district to pretty much in every school. Is it a coincidence that they are trying to create more income because of budget issues and declining enrollment? At first it was very limited but now anyone can apply. Some are even taking kids from out of their district so they can boost enrollment.

    I brought up the education issue because our local junior colleges are having extremely few classes this summer which is hurting some people who are trying to meet the deadline. Personally, I have a B.A. (but not in ece) and about 40 units in ece but can't get the AA unless I quit my job to do the student teaching part. I have over 15 years experience but they won't waive it so I am one of the people who is in a catch 22. My original certification was in secondary ed and that student teaching doesn't count and there isn't a mentor teacher at either site I teach so I would have to go elsewhere. I strongly feel if they want more education, they need to pay people more. I saw an ad recently and they wanted a B.A. and 2 years experience and they were offering $10!
     
  11. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 30, 2011

    [COLOR="Black"]This is the part that drives me crazy about higher education. It doesn't make sense to me. This is where I think it is all about money when it comes to teacher certification. Someone with 15 years experience in the classroom should be able to waive the student teaching part; especially if you have already done one at another grade level. I think there should be other options. I had to quit a job to do my student teaching at the BA level and I definitely was not going to do that going for my master's. Who can afford that and pay for the degree! I searched high and low to find a school that did not require a student teaching component at the master's level.

    That is the problem HS is now facing. They are requiring higher certification for teachers, now they have to find the money to pay them accordingly. For the most part, those that are becoming certified or earning a bachelors are now headed to the PS arena because of higher pay and benefits. We will now become a revolving door after September 2011. People will come to HS for the experience and then move on for better pay. :([/COLOR]
     
  12. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 30, 2011

    I totally agree - it may not be optimal for either. I think the concept of having free preschool to people who can't afford it is good, but it will all be in the details and, knowing politics and education, the details may not be good.
     
  13. mkate

    mkate Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 31, 2011

    Here in Spain three years of preschool (for ages 3, 4, and 5) are free and part of the public system, but it's not mandatory (though just about everyone sends their kids.) It's a full-day program, usually part of a primary school though usually they have a separate building and play area. And, it is definitely an academic program, 25 kids to a class (at least at my school.)

    It's good for working parents, but not so great for a lot of the kids.
     
  14. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 6, 2011

    I have taught Universal Pre-K for the past 5 years, so obviously my opinion is biased, but I love it. I think it is a fantastic program for 4-year-olds. Each district conducts their program differently, so I can only speak for mine. My children have a 2.5 hour day filled with developmentally appropriate socialization, academics, and play. They go to kindergarten fully prepared academically, and they go with a love of school and learning already instilled in them. They are in school for such a short time that they still have practically the whole day to spend any way their parents choose.

    I have 4 certifications in the state of New York- I am certified to teach birth-6th grade in both general ed and special ed. I also have a master's degree in literacy and cognition. Am I paid appropriately? Absolutely not. I have worked inside a public school for the past 5 years and my pay is extreeeeeemely below my colleagues, some of which have less education and less experience than I do. But I have a job, and on Long Island that's a big deal. I also have a job I LOVE, where I truly believe I am doing great things for very young children, which is a much bigger deal to me.
     
  15. teacherR

    teacherR Companion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 7, 2011

    I really believe that our education system is broken. I do not know how I feel about universal preschool. I feel like there is this push to start kids earlier and earlier because this will help as they get older but the reality is most kids start to burn out somewhere in elementary school. Preschool is so important but if they keep using the same education model it wont do any good. As a preschool teacher I am not as angry about the though of universal preschool as much as the complete lack of trust and respect for educators in our society. Experience counts, not just education. Teachers are proffessionals who deserve fair pay, benifits, and classroom creative control. I would work for the state if they would allow more creative license. I think that all children would benifit from a good, quality preschool program. There seems to be a disconnect between how kids learn and how we teach them in this country. All kids should get an emergent curriculm with student lead learning not just preschool kids. I think it is time to fight to fix the whole system.
     
  16. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 7, 2011

    I think it is broken as well. I don't think children should spend more time in school. I think we should shorten the entire school experience!

    Teaching is a noble profession. I just don't believe in the way we have designed compulsory schooling. We need to move back to more individualization with children having more choice in what they want to study.

    I feel schools are creating little obedient worker drones. I don't think we have creativity in school. We are killing it. I'm asking myself such questions as:

    Why do we start kids so early in school?
    Why do we teach what we teach?
    Why can't kids pick what they would like to learn?
    What happened to the apprenticeship type programs we had before compulsory schooling?
    Why does it take so long to teach kids to read, write and do arithmetic?
    Why haven't we changed this model of education?
    Why do we continue to force would be teachers to take more and more classes, get licensures, etc. when it has been proven that this does not increase student learning?
    Why do we say more money, more money?

    I believe experience counts as well.

    I'm back to dreaming about creating my own school. ~sigh~

    Let me go read Teacher Tom (and other creative educators). They always inspire me. I wish I had creative control to do a lot of what he and others are able to do in their classrooms.
     
  17. LovetoteachPREK

    LovetoteachPREK Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    11

    Jun 7, 2011

    I work in a public program. I guess maybe other states are different, but our state's guidelines repeatedly stress "learning through play." There is nothing in the guidelines about children having to know their ABCs, 123s or anything else. Our "standards" emphasize exposure to quality literature and accepting children's early attempts at writing, among other very DAP things.

    Although I do feel a little stifled by a few of the requirements, overall I feel there is a lot of creative license given to the state's preschool teachers.

    I worked at a church-based preschool before, and I did absolutely love it. But some children will never have the opportunity to attend a program like that because the parents cannot afford the cost.

    We live in a rural area, and the nearest Head Start is many miles away. Without a public preschool, these children would not attend preschool at all - and they are often the ones who need it the most.

    And yes, many children got by for years and years without preschool. I did not attend preschool. But I lived in a neighborhood full of kids. All the mothers stayed home and we played and did crafts and read stories. This isn't happening in many neighborhoods anymore. I feel that my job as a PreK teacher is to prepare children emotionally and socially so they can go to Kindergarten and be successful. I give them early exposure to literacy and mathematics concepts, because there might not be anyone at home doing that for them.

    There IS a need for some type of public preschool program. Otherwise, the privledged few will attend private programs, and will just continue to have a "head start" into elementary school.
     
  18. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    Why do we need to start kids in school at such early ages? Why do we teach what we teach? Why don't we let kids start school at a later age? Why do they have to spend 12 years doing this "school" thing? What is the point of the curriculum that we are using in schools?
     
  19. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 8, 2011

    We have half day Pre-K in our schools. It's ridiculous. Parents have no clue what it's doing to their "babies." I get them off the bus and have them the other half days. The kids are little, they are exhausted from the whole ordeal, coming off the bus crying.
    Whole days? Poor kids, plus the schools don't have the after school programs in place so the lack of space is an issue.
    I hate to see this happen more than I hated to see the half days. It caused several daycares to close in our area, lots of people out of work. This would totally put private daycares out of business.
     
  20. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    It may be different in other states, but here in New York I have never heard of a Universal Pre-K being full day. Our guidelines strictly state that each session is to be 2.5 hours, 5 days a week.
     
  21. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 8, 2011

    Pre-K here (varies by district) seems to be full day, academic curriculum, 24-1 ratio. Crazy! Districts are jumping on the bandwagon because they are broke and it gives them more ADA but it is run just like kindergarten - very little play.
     
  22. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    Yes, that is what the design will look like here as well. We are moving Kinder to full day, which I wouldn't be opposed to if that meant play time was reinstated, however that isn't what it means. The Pre-K is designed to run completely on the kinder format. I hear it is only half day, but the State is completely up front saying the dollars will go into general fund, so that they can be reallocated. This I can't imagine will be a good plan. The 24-1 ratio is what we will run on as well. I can not imagine. In my State the Department of Early Learning has had codes for how Early Learning programs will be run, they are rather stringent. The fours that come off that bus Grammy is talking about will have been in a 24-1 ratio then get off the bus and magically not be allowed to exceed a 1-12 ratio. This makes no sense. The rules for playgrounds are totally different, the rules for all of it is different. It is the same 4 yr old. Either they need the extra rules, or they don't. I can't see how the child changes that much in the sort bus ride as to need a double staffed room.

    I am not saying that the room provided by the PreK teacher who spoke earlier isn't a wonderful program. She seems to we wonderful herself as well. It am just not sure the rush for funding will benefit the children. I know it will not benefit the private programs.
     
  23. busybeeprek

    busybeeprek Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    I agree with what scmom has said. I didn't go to preschool but the times were different then. Moms didn't have to work, they were home with their children and able to be their first teacher. Most of my generation spent time with our parents learning those skills through every day life. With the addition of learning to count with the "Count" and learning about our neighborhood with "Mister Rogers" we developed the needed skills for kindergarten. Today, that is not the case. Moms have to work for the most part or in the situation of low income families, they are without the needed resources to properly prepare their child for kindergarten. I don't agree with the situation our public school system is in, however, as our culture moves forward, an education is vital for survival. With the social requirements made on most families to have two incomes, it is up to us as preschool teachers to provide that extra help in order to better prepare the children of the next generation.
    Do I believe in Universal Preschool? In a way yes, and in a way no. I think it is important to give every child the opportunity to have access to a preschool education. However, I believe that the way the government wants to facilitate the opportunity is something that needs revision.
     
  24. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 8, 2011

    I have an average of 10 children in my Preschool program. My actual room is licensed for 15, but in the best interest of the children, we keep the count down to around 10. It's too bad they are lead to believe that a bus ride to the school packed with 20 plus kids will benefit them, but the parents truly don't know any better.
     
  25. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    I am fortunate to work in a district that has many different pre-k programs in district. This has both plusses and minuses.

    Chicago has a very interesting history with Pre-K and if you want to see some really good outcomes (on a program now butchered) read the "Chicago Longitudinal Study" about our CPC'S (Child Parent Centers).

    We run Head Start, Preschool For All (which used to be "At Risk" and called State Pre-K), CPCs, Full Day Tuition Based (7-6, $10,000 a year), 2.5 hour tuition based ($4,000 a year) and Early Childhood Special Education rooms.

    All teachers teaching a "gen ed" population MUST have a license to teach Pre-K - 3rd. All teachers teaching a "SPED" population must have an approval on either their pre-k - 3rd or special ed cert to teach Pre-K Sped (ECSE).

    We are VERY fortunate to have an entire professional development department dedicated to us. They also try their best to make opportunities available for Kindergarten but it doesn't always happen.

    We are getting very academic in some circles. We have three curriculums- teachers use them to varying levels for literacy.

    We are still mainly center based and 1 hour is supposed to be for "self-selected free play" and 30 minutes for gross motor- of a 2.5 hour program.

    Assessments are coming down our way and we have a Kindergarten Readiness test we have to administer to all of our kids going to K. We also use teaching strategies gold- which is a hot mess and there is not enough time to see/do it properly when there are 2.5 hour days.

    We have a wonderful program that blends special ed and gen ed- which was almost cut this year, but is being saved.

    We operate on a 4.5 hour day. So one semester a class is 4 days and one semester 5. I used to teach full day- but those days are long gone. I think we served the most "at risk" kids then- because now parents who are working have difficulty transporting their children for 2.5 hours and there are not enough schools in the most needed areas to serve. Some schools rent space at closed churches or in "malls" (strip malls) to provide classroom space.

    I should also say that this is nothing new here. The Child Parent Centers were started right around the time Head Start was in the 60's. I think State Pre-K has been around since 1985 in the schools.

    There are not enough slots for the children who want spaces.

    The programs do come with extra paperwork. Pre-K teachers (esp those in Head Start) make up in paperwork with forms etc for what the older teachers do grading tests. On top of that our assessments take much time to input into the computer.

    I wouldn't change my job for the world though.
     
  26. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    Oh and we have a 1:10 ratio. In a SPED inclusion room it could be as low as 1:5.

    Pre-K is not mandatory- nor is K. Show up at 6- and see the door to First grade be presented to you.
     
  27. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,154
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 8, 2011

    The way our first grade curriculum is presented, I couldn't imagine K not being mandatory.
     
  28. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    K isn't mandatory in Washington either, you are right. You could even show up at 7 and see the First Grade Door shown to you, and you would have to be allowed in. Once in, you wouldn't be asked to step down to K, and you would have full services....our area has many migrant workers and I have seen many people try to home school then change mid stream. Not that either of these are poor choices in general.....but I know the children are given services and not placed with K.

    My own child has asked to be homeschooled next year.....so honest....no disrespect.

    I don't understand how we can be restructuring the PreK environment and funding streams but failing to Mandate? These are the details that get to me.
     
  29. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 8, 2011

    Kindergarten isn't mandated in New York, either, but good luck joining first grade without any school experience. They will let you in of course, but my oh my how those children will struggle.
     
  30. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 8, 2011

    K isn't mandatory in California either. I think the trend for full day preschool will continue because parents want/need cheaper care and districts need money. I think it is RIDICULOUS that a 4/5 year old in private care is mandated to be in a 1:12 ratio but because it is "school" can be in 1:24. I know something is needed but I cringe at the thought of little robots coming out of schools that are all the same and don't encourage creativity and play. I also don't think teachers are compensated adequately and worry about all the wonderful teachers who may lose their jobs.
     
  31. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    My daughter was in a private full day Kinder. They had to work on the same lesson plans as your average Kinder class, but there was time to spread out, several recesses and several PE sessions and specials. There was, sadly, no kitchen or big block center (although blocks were there) but there were many items that we have on our "manipulative" shelves and puppets to care for and what not. The teacher did a wonderful job letting the children move and bond and work on the floor and so on. I was quite impressed by the lack of stress and the amount of relaxation she was able to put in full day Kinder. The children even got a long rest!

    However, when I am subbing in my school district......that is not what I hear full day kinder would mean for them....they are talking about it looking the same as half day speed just longer!

    And I didn't mean to imply that a child held out would fit into first or that they would manage the work load. I am sure it is quite the opposite.
     
  32. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,305
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    :confused: I haven't read all the responses, so, forgive me if the answer has shown up, but what is a Universal Pre-Kindergarten??
     
  33. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    In many states, there is a push to add the 4 yr olds to the bottom of the k-12 experience. It is something that is worked out by each district, so it is not standardized. The discussion here has been between teachers in community where it is a reality already and those that are concerned.
     
  34. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    59

    Jun 9, 2011

    It is all too difficult & ridiculous. The extensive requirements, that is. I have a Masters (which I feel is useless more and more each day)..Masters in Ed, certified to teach grades K-6, yet was told I don't qualify to teach Headstart because I don't have the Early Childhood requirements. It's completely ridiculous...as if I'm not able to use the training & actual experience, and courses that I have in Kindergarten and make the adjustments necessary to be a Head start teacher.

    Way too many unnecessary hoops to jump through in the world of education.:dizzy:
     
  35. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    59

    Jun 9, 2011

    Me too. I feel so crazy just thinking about it because it seems unrealistic, though I would love to teach only a small amount of kids (maybe 6)? in a home or something...and would be ok with a salary lower than public school. I have no idea how that salary is even possible though, just saying I'm okay with making much less than a public school would pay if I get to do what I truly believe in. I'm continually losing faith in public/private/charter/religious doesn't matter....and I can't keep waiting on principals and districts. I really may need to think about creating my own opportunities for myself. Just dreaming...I think.
     
  36. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    I have to say, having my "own school" has been great. Except when it is really terrible. There are MANY years where the good out weighs the bad.

    I love my job, I love my school. We have 12 mixed age children.
     
  37. busybeeprek

    busybeeprek Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    I'm very shocked at the number of states that don't require kindergarten. I live in Arkansas and it is a mandate here. It has been for many years, including when I started school which was well over 30 years ago (I'm 40). I didn't realize that kindergarten was not a mandate nation wide. WOW!
     
  38. teacher36

    teacher36 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    I taught Universal Pre-K in NY for 2 years. I have a master's degree in ECE and Childhood Ed. I think a lot of the worries stated by other posters does not apply to our state's program. Parents still have choices. They can apply for the program and choose which school they would like to attend. I actually taught in a private school that received funds for the program. Of course, I was not paid a teacher's salary reflecting my experience and education, but like teachergrl7 I loved it!! We used Creative Curriculum and I had a lot of leeway as far as my creativitiy in planning lessons. There was a lot of academics but also free play and child centered activities. If done correctly, I think it is a great program. (Mine was also 2.5 hours a day, 5 days a week)
     
  39. INteacher

    INteacher Aficionado

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,765
    Likes Received:
    1

    Jun 9, 2011

    don't know if anyone else posted this, but NO mandtory Kinder in the state of Indiana :(
     
  40. teacher36

    teacher36 Comrade

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

    I now teach full day kindergarten in a private school. It is a verrrrrry long day for these little children. My own children attended 1/2 day kindergarten (which is why I taught 1/2 day pre-k-so I could be home with my own children). In the 1/2 day k, there is no time for play but that is what they did when they were home with me. Unfortunately, not every parent can be home with their children. Most of my k'ers attend before-care and after-care so some of them are in school from 7am-6pm (crazy, right???) Because I value the importance of play, I incorporate it into my curriculum every day. My principal doesn't love it but I made my case plainly enough that she allows it. But again, parents make the choice to send them to this school for the full day program (the public school is 1/2 day).
     
  41. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jun 9, 2011

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Dave1981,
  2. TeacherNY,
  3. YoungTeacherGuy
Total: 608 (members: 4, guests: 584, robots: 20)
test