Uniforms....for teachers?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Miss84, Apr 14, 2010.

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  1. waffles

    waffles Companion

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    Or everyone sees the sub in different clothes and thinks they're an intruder. It's bad enough for me that some of the schools think I'm a student. It's bad enough that a lot of the kids think they don't have to listen to the sub. I don't need another thing telling the kids that I don't matter and they don't need to listen to me.

    Although for the record, I think it's stupid for the kids too. Especially when the middle schools have a uniform and the high schools don't.
     
  2. glaciergirl

    glaciergirl Rookie

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    I think uniforms are a great idea. I think I'll suggest it at my school. To think of never having to make sure I have something nice to get ready the night before!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I wore a uniform when I worked at Burger King as a burger flipping, milkshake making girl.

    I have no interest in looking like everyone else with whom I work. Clothing choices reflect personal taste and style, and I do believe teachers should dress neatly and professionally for their jobs.

    I'm not sure what the rationale for uniforms is...
     
  4. fast chalk

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    I do not like uniforms for teachers but @ the school where
    I work it´s a MUST, so it´s compulsory, grrrrrrrr
    We wear a skirt, a white shirt, a brown sweater and dark "closed" shoes (black or brown).
    I´d like to wear my own clothes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!
     
  5. atomic

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    I am all for teacher uniforms if it will put something other than stretch pants on the teacher next door to me. I almost barfed when she got off the elevator this morning. yuck!

    Some people have no sense.

    I'm also tired of the Male English teacher that wears flip-flops...the chemistry teacher that wears a baseball cap and doesn't shave...and all the teachers that wear jeans.
     
  6. knitter63

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    I agree with you. I would love to NOT have to think about what I had to wear every day. I think it would be cheaper too.
    We have a dress code, but unfortunately, not everyone, or every school adheres to it. Makes for lots of arguments and hard feelings when the entire district gets reprimanded for a few teachers in other buildings who are breaking the dress code.
     
  7. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    I loved uniforms, in addition to our polo shirts, we also had a long sleeve denim shirt. We were given 4 polo shirts (we could choose one of each color or any color combination) and a denim shirt each school year. If we wanted more than we had to buy them. We could wear any type of shoe that we wanted. We could accessorize with earrings or necklaces or sweaters of our choosing. I really liked it. They were stricter on dress code than other schools that I have been at--a PE coach could not go to teach in a class in a sweatsuit or windsuit. Coaches got 2 windsuits to wear while teaching PE. In this whole area dress is casual. My husband is an engineer and never wears a suit or even a tie to work unless he has a big meeting which happens maybe once or twice a year. He dress very similar to how I dress Today I have on a short sleeve denim shirt and black pants that can be worn long or rolled up as capris. I have them rolled up today and I have thong sandals on. My hubby (who works for a major professional company that most would recognize the company name) wore a denim shirt that has my son's school name embroidered on it and marching band with khaki pants and Eastland type shoes. Nobody wears anything more professional than that in the whole area. Alice always talks about wearing suits to work--she would be very overdressed in any of the schools (public or private) that I have taught in. I think it is regional differences. The uniform saved me lots of money because half my wardrobe was provided by the school and honestly there are some mornings that I am not capable of making a decision.
     
  8. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    Students are making clothing choices that are harming others?

    I'm with Muttling; those who are saying it's "fine for kids, but not me" aren't thinking it through.

    I'd also add, the kids have absolutely no choice. It literally gets forced on them. Every adult in the building has the choice to quit their job. Not only are the kids forced to wear them, the parents are forced to buy them, so I don't know how Mamacita's implied objection (i.e., as long as I don't pay) has weight.

    Plenty of professions have uniforms. Police, nurses, referees, airline pilots, waiters, etc. Are all these people being "demeaned"?
     
  9. kcjo13

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    First of all, I don't give a hoot whether or not I would have to wear a uniform or not. I'm not that big of a fashionista anyway, so whatever. I'd be interested in how I would be required to find a maternity uniform, but that's another topic.

    Now, on to more important matters...

    Yes, you betcha I can possibly mean what I say. I wouldn't say it if I didn't.

    Let's look at my clauses:

    "Adults can make choices that will not harm others"

    Hmm, yep, I mean this. I find it perfectly reasonable to expect a professional educator who has a minimum of 4 years of higher education and training TO BE ABLE to walk into a closet every morning and choose an appropriate, professional outfit to wear to school. I expect that professional TO BE ABLE choose clothing that is not offensive to members of the opposite sex, or members of the same sex, not dangerous due to known gang colors, not containing any mixed messages or double entendres, covering, modest, and tasteful.

    Do I fully expect that every professional educator across this nation does this? Of course not. We all know adults who make choices that are questionable, be it about their clothing, or other more important decisions. (If that person is not making appropriate clothing choices, I might be led to believe that person is not fully capable of making appropriate choices in a classroom either.)

    And my other clause:

    "students cannot"

    Hmm, yep, I mean this one too. Most of our students fall collectively into 2 categories-either they are not developmentally ready to make appropriate decisions, or they unfortunately have not received the guidance necessary to know HOW to make appropriate decisions.

    Do I fully believe that every student we teach is incapable of making appropriate decisions? Of course not. But to ensure the safety of the majority of students, we as adults are typically responsible for guiding students to make wise decisions.

    That's our job. It's what we do. We make good decisions, and we help kids learn to make those good decisions as well.

    If I have to have a boss tell me what to wear, does that demonstrate that I am capable of making appropriate decisions? No. It demonstrates that I, as an ADULT, cannot yet choose wisely, and so I need someone to tell me what to do.

    And before you jump on me, YES, I believe-no I KNOW-that children whose brains are not fully developed need to have someone in an AUTHORITY position guide them to make wise decisions. And if that means TELLING them to wear a uniform, so be it.

    I said it before, I will say it again-as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is NOT about whether or not teachers should wear uniforms. But I am pretty sick and tired of being jumped all over because I CHOOSE not to agree with certain people's opinions.

    I am personally insulted that my own and others' opinions are disregarded so harshly by other members here. I find it infinitely insulting to read lines such as "You are quite obviously a better person than those whom you seek to lead. They don't deserve you and your attitude reflects this."

    That is rude and presumptuous. While it is difficult, I have to stop myself from making a judgment about others based on asinine statements such as this and others. I would appreciate the common courtesy in return.

    Please don't make judgments about my and others' abilities as a teacher based on whether or not we agree with you about wearing a uniform.

    :mad:
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    There's a rationale behind most of those uniforms....what would the rationale be for teacher uniforms?
     
  11. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Um, yes, students sometimes make clothing choices that harm others. This would be why my nephew (who lives in Denver) cannot wear certain colors to school, or shirts with words on them, or a variety of other restrictions.

    Um, yes, I am thinking this through. I just don't happen to agree with the argument that uniforms are an appropriate or necessary place to demonstrate what others have called "good leadership skills". I have plenty of other opportunities during my day to demonstrate that, as an adult, I can make appropriate choices. Needing to be told what to wear, as a professional, is TO ME unnecessary.

    I also didn't understand the paid for argument. I'll let Mamacita explain that one.

    I don't recall ever saying people are "demeaned" by wearing a uniform. Please show me where I did.

    Here's my view: apparently, having a dissenting opinion (at least with some members) on this site has become so taboo that I just shouldn't even bother. What gives?
     
  12. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    To have them stand out from others in the building, whether they're parents or other visitors or students. To avoid issues with others (teachers, parents, or students) gossipping over what a teacher is wearing. To promote general solidarity among the teachers.

    And I'd note that I think in a number of those professions that require uniforms, the wearers take some pride in them.
     
  13. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    Okay, first -- I'm quite okay with you or anyone else having a dissenting opinion. Opinions over uniforms are hardly life-and-death matters. I've disagreed with a number of posters on various subjects who I like very much (I can think of at least three off the top of my head), and I'm sure I will continue to.

    Not wearing certain colors or words isn't a uniform; it's a rule, so maybe we're talking about different things.

    I never intended to imply that you said you were being demeaned, so I apologize if it came out that way. Some other posters did say it was demeaning, so that comment is really for them.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I would love to have a uniform as long as it wasn't ugly or a dress. Someone earlier this thread posted about khakis and a polo with the school logo (I think). I personally would love this for at least four reasons:
    1. I have zero fashion sense.
    2. I wouldn't have to make any decisions about clothes in the morning.
    3. You could easily identify the adults who were supposed to be in the school.
    4. I bet khakis and a polo would be super comfortable. I run around all day and it would be nice to have clothes that helped facilitate that.

    I would not, however, love wearing a dress. I. Don't. Wear. Dresses. I would find that demeaning. Would you ask the male French teacher next door to wear a dress? If you wouldn't ask him to do it, don't ask me to do it.

    My ideal teacher 'uniform' would be a set of robes, a la Harry Potter. I'd love to dress like Professor McGonagall. :)

    (For the record, I completely agree with the sentiments here that teachers should be able to wear their own clothes. I do see a huge difference between student uniforms and teacher uniforms. We ask students to do things every day that we ourselves aren't required and shouldn't have to do. We generally don't need permission to speak in the classroom, to use the bathroom, or any number of things. I don't feel for one second that this means that we think we are "better than" students. It's just that we are grown-ups at work, whereas they are children at school. Different situations, different expectations.)
     
  15. bros

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    I personally dislike uniforms.

    I dislike how they hamper the creativity of students.

    But I can understand how in certain areas, such as gang areas, they are mandatory.

    Making teachers adhere to a dress code is perfectly reasonable, but making them wear the same thing as the students, just in a different size, is rather ludicrous.

    If a public school were to require teachers to wear uniforms, it should be the opposite of the students uniforms (i.e. if the students wear white with bits of green, the teachers should wear green with bits of white) so it is easy to differentiate the staff from the students.
     
  16. ms.

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    The only school districts that require teachers to wear uniforms (that I know of) make the teachers pay for them. Here's an example from one public school that my friend had to student teach at: only khaki pants or a-line below-the-knee skirts, white button-up shirt, navy or red cardigan, black oxford style shoes / black fold-over socks.

    This was the exact same uniform as the students (except the students have the option of wearing a red plaid jumper, or skirt.) My friend received her assignment for student teaching one month before-hand. She was informed of the uniforms three days before student teaching started. She had built up a decent professional wardrobe, just not one within those standards. It cost her upwards of $200 to just get 2 pairs of uniform kaki's, 2 button-up shirts, a red cardigan, and a pair of black oxfords. (The school required teachers to buy from approved uniform vendors.)
     
  17. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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  18. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    I love student uniforms--my kids wore them for 12 years of school. They went to a private school and they had ugly plaid before any of the public schools had them. I wore uniforms for the entire 12 years that I went to school. I have never had to fight with any of my kids in the morning about what they were going to wear and my mom never fought with me. There was no choice. Nobody had to know if your parents could not afford the latest Nike tennis shoes because we all wore the same Doc Martins (which are an investment for their first year but you can get 5-6 years of use out of a pair). We all looked exactly alike and no body cared because there were way more important things going on like who liked who, etc.
     
  19. MsMar

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    I personally wish I had the option to wear khakis and a school polo any day of the week. We're able to wear them on Fridays but the rest of the week we would be considered too dressed down and could face disciplinary action. I would love to not think about what to wear in the morning, plus I feel a sense of pride when I have my school short on on Friday's.

    Then again, like Cassie said, I don't have much fashion sense either! Plus, I understand my desire to have the option to wear it is not the same as being required to wear it every day (down to certain socks and shoes).
     
  20. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Most schools, or any places of employment, have dress codes for employees.

    I've seen some teachers who get away with inappropriate dress anyway. While I sometimes wish they would have to wear uniforms, I don't see why there has to be 'equality' in dress codes that require teachers to wear uniforms identical to students. Teachers aren't students. Period. I would wear blouses or sweaters untucked and our students had to tuck their uniform shirts. A few asked why teachers didn't have to do so, since kids did. I simply explained that teachers had their own dress code and were required to follow it but that it was different from the requirements for students. Case closed.

    Yes, many professionals have uniforms, but they usually aren't identical to the clothing worn by their subordinates, clients, patients, inmates, parishioners. Or students. Adults have many privileges that children do not have. That's life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  21. MsMar

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    At my school, those teachers would very likely be written up. We are expected to dress "professionally" and there is no way any of those outfits would qualify as professional. Also, neither students nor teachers may wear jeans, ever. Oh and no hats (or hoodies) as well.
     
  22. ms.

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    I get mistaken for being 16-18 years old all of the time. (I'm 23, but I look younger.) I dress very carefully and professionally because of this. If I wore the same thing as the students this could almost be a personal safety issue. I like for my students to know that I'm an adult, and while I'm there for them, there are boundaries.

    The people who argue "if students have to wear uniforms, then teachers should have to wear them." I have a question: should students be responsible for everything you are responsible for? Should students manage your files? Should students choose every aspect of the curriculum and correlate it to state standards? Should students send you to the principals office? :D

    I know that when I was 12 I was not mature enough to make all of the decisions of an adult. The needs and responsibilities of adolescents and adults are different. The expectations should be different as well.
     
  23. TeacherShelly

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    My opinion is that telling children what to wear is controlling. This is my personal philosophy: there are times that I have to lay down the law with my daughters. Telling them what to wear is not that time. I'll save it for when it's important. It would become important if they chose hoochie outfits or gang colors. Since I have a trusting close relationship with them, they would understand and comply.

    Students need to know we think they are capable. Why invent reasons to demonstrate our authority and their subordination?
     
  24. Sshintaku

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    I agree with uniforms for students in gang areas. If my school had uniforms, it would cut down on A LOT of issues. Although, their "colors" make it easy to figure out who is tagging my door...

    I think teachers could use a dress code, but maybe not uniforms. (I doubt there are gang problems among teachers.) I've seen some very... interesting... outfits on my colleagues where I'm honestly supprised admin didn't say something.
     
  25. futureteach21

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    I was the poster who said uniforms for teachers is demeaning. As far as if having police men and doctors wear uniforms is demeaning. My answer would be no. Uniforms are expected in some professions. I would surely hope that policeman would have a uniform on. How else would someone in trouble know how to get help?! Doctors usually have scrubs or a lab coat on. Again, I am glad to see they are separated clothing wise so I know the person walking in to give me a shot is the real deal. Teachers are clearly teachers. In a school full of children, usually, teachers don't need uniforms to be seen. I know there are exceptions, especially in the high school when teachers are short or something.
     
  26. hatima

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    I don't agree with a uniform for teachers, unless the school/district/employer are paying for the uniform. I do feel a dress code-with a set of standards is fine. I feel teachers should dress in a professional manner. We are expected to dress appropriately and teachers all have their own style. Some are dress casual everyday, others just on Special days. But non are "sit on the couch and drink beer" casual. I personally don't like to dress casually to work. I prefer to wear a dress or skirt. I did not grow up seeing teachers dress this way and did not dress in anything but a T-shirt and Jeans throughout school.

    I've looked at applications for private schools that do have a dress code for teachers. I think the district I work for has one, but am not sure. A teacher at my middle school dressed like a "paid entertainer." (If she sat her clothes were at risk of falling off.) That type of dressing should be prevented.
     
  27. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    How did this thread turn into uniforms for students? We need to stay on topic and the topic is uniforms for teachers not students.
     
  28. TeacherShelly

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    I would not choose to work for a school or district that found it necessary to put the teacher in a uniform. It would feel demeaning and controlling.
     
  29. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    This is one of those topics that no one is going to change anyone else's mind. I had no problem wearing uniforms and really wish that my current school did teacher uniforms. The school that I taught in that did have uniforms it was the teachers that got together originally and asked for the uniforms. I have way too much self esteem to let something as wearing a uniform demean me. As far as the school being controlled by the school, we all loved it. Actually we wore shorts on Friday's with one of our uniform shirts. This might just need to be one of those topics that we all agree to disagree and have one of the mods close it.
     
  30. blazer

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    This was mooted a few years back in the UK. I was all for ti and asked when I could come in to be measured for it. If the school wants to buy me a couple of sets of clothes to work in then fine. Don't expect me to be buying it though!
     
  31. ms.

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    :) I don't think the discussion is going to far... I've actually enjoyed hearing different teachers' experiences having or not having uniforms.

    I think it's good to hear different viewpoints.
     
  32. KateL

    KateL Habitué

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    At my last school, the students wore uniforms (khakis and a school shirt) Monday through Thursday and the teachers dressed professionally. On Fridays, the students wore "professional" outfits (usually their church clothes or other fancy clothes) and the teachers wore the student uniforms. I liked wearing the uniform on Fridays because it was comfortable and easy to throw together. The school gave the teachers the shirts, but we had to buy our own khaki pants, capris, or skirts. I wouldn't have minded wearing a uniform every day, but I would want it to be different from the student uniform.
     
  33. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I take pride in my appearance...and to stand out from others in the building? Hmmm, how about id tags?
     
  34. TeacherShelly

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    I am not trying to change anyone's mind, and I don't think the thread needs to be closed just because people stick to their opinions. Being mean, that would be different, but just not agreeing is a natural and normal thing. I like hearing other people's opinions.

    I have self-esteem and can still feel demeaned when people do or say things that insult me. I think that's normal?
     
  35. TeacherGroupie

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    czacza, I think 3Sons wasn't suggesting that you don't take pride in your appearance.
     
  36. TeacherGroupie

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    There's no reason for the thread to close, as long as all parties carry on the discussion civilly.
     
  37. CiniMini

    CiniMini Rookie

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    I'm with you there! If I wore a uniform just like the students, they'd think I was one of them.
     
  38. blazer

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    If only:D
     
  39. ms.

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    Visible ID tags are used in a school I currently teach in. They are worn by everyone, it's really nice. The administrative assistants, substitutes, librarians, para pros, and custodial all have a photo ID badge. Each year a new badge is given out, the year is very visible on the photo ID badge. This is great for recognizing parents, etc. It can be really easy to mix-up a parent and a new sub.

    If I were in charge of the world of schools :rofl: this would be my solution to teacher uniforms.
     
  40. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

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    In one of our middle schools the visible ID tags are even worn by students. They don't have uniforms, but they are the only school in the district that has the student wearing tags. The parents voted for it for safety reasons. It was stated they needed to know who was to be on campus and who was not to be.

    As for uniforms, I don't agree with them for students (even though my own children are currently wearing them, as they stand before me). I think that if a school is going to require the students to wear them, and the parents to avoid specific types of dress, then wearing a professional and committee decided uniform is perfectly reasonable. I am sure I am in the minority.
     
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