Unfair Grade

Discussion in 'College' started by Sad Student, Nov 9, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 9, 2009

    :confused:Hi Im a student in community college. I'm currently taking a class with a very strict teacher. While I feel for what he is going through I feel I have been treated unfairly. He is having a very hard time controlling his class, many are not understanding the criteria and many of us that are trying are getting caught in the punishment that was meant for others. I go to school part time, have a full time job and strict at home, despite all of them I put all of them in turmoil to turn in the best project possible. I took time off work, off from my other class and spent 24 hours at a time slaving away on it. On the day it was due I was sick and unable to make it to class, but brought it in the next class. I came in and tacked my masterpiece to the board to have it critiqued but was told that it wouldnt be because it was late. During the break I got great reviews and compliments from my classmates, I was hit with a barrage of questions and pats on the back, when one of the other students informs me that all late projects get an automatic F! No one in the class I talked to had any knowledge of this new policy. I set up a meeting with him and discussed the problem with him. He refused to reconsider the grade but told me if I continue to bring in exceptional work that I will pass.

    I am going to school on a grant, If my grade slips below a C average I will lose my grant and Im looking at being a professional driver for the rest of a miserable poor life. I am now trapped between dropping the class and bringing my case before the dean or gambling with my life on weather or not he puts me through the ringer again over some meager infractor.

    Is there a policy guide to grading?
    Is he really able to give an F for one day late, with no notice?
    Is there a infractor or handbook for teachers that can help me?
     
  2.  
  3. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 9, 2009

    The spell check on this site needs some work. The second strict should be abligations and the second infractor (if thats even the word I'm aiming for) should be website.
     
  4. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 9, 2009

    You would have to research your schools policy regarding "excused" absences. If your school does have such a policy, then you can insist on it being followed. If it doesn't, you're stuck. It might not be fair, but life's not fair. I wish I could give you better advice, but that's all I can offer not knowing what your school's policies are.
     
  5. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 9, 2009

    You aren't in high school. The teacher's hands aren't tied regarding late work. You are an adult now. If you had a project due at a certain time in the workforce, and you were unable to make the due date, you'd be a candidate for unemployment.

    Sorry. No sympathy from me.
     
  6. KinderWonder

    KinderWonder Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    Honestly yes, the teacher/professor has every right to give you an F. It really stinks, I know. My cousin is in community college (I am at a University) and she was in the hospital with Kidney problems and missed a test and the professor refused to let her take it. She still passed the class but she was pretty mad. I would be too, but we both took it as a learning experience, for now on we find someone to turn it in for us and/or contact the professor ahead of time and if all else fails we take our butts in for the ten minutes it will take us to turn it in...Sorry I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but it's how college works...
     
  7. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,154
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 10, 2009

    Work is due when it is due. College professors will sometimes allow variances IF they are contacted ahead of time. Depending on the school's policy, they aren't always obligated to do that. If you didn't contact the instructor ahead of time and ask for advice on what to do, that leaves you without any recourse. The F will stand. This is common procedure for college classes. It is a learning experience for you but next time you will know what to do.
     
  8. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 10, 2009

    I also think that, in this day and age, there were probably a number of ways you could have contacted him before the next class. You could have gotten at least part of the assignment to him electronically on time, sick or not.

    If you were sick enough that it necessitated a doctor/ER visit, perhaps a dated note or bill might help your cause, though I tend to doubt it.

    The rule in my high school is that projects are due when they're due. A student too sick to get to school can either email it in or drop it in the mail, postmarked with the deadline. That way, no student has the unfair advantage of extra time.
     
  9. clarnet73

    clarnet73 Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    In every class I took in college, there was a grading policy listed in the syllabus for the class, and 9/10 of them contained a section about late work... so check the syllabus.

    It sounds harsh, but this is college, not high school... teachers generally have the right to make their own policies about grading, late work, etc. It's hindsight, but you should have contacted the professor BEFORE you knew you were going to miss class, explain teh situation, and ask what he'd like you to do.

    It could be an expensive lesson, but now you know.
     
  10. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    I can load my project in here then recreate some of the other students projects so you can see them side by side if you like.

    It would take me only a few hours to recreate at least five other students projects.

    Thats fine, I guess I'll just have to except his grade. But the truth of the matter is that this isnt my job. My job is the the thing I put off to try to appease the teacher of an over intensive class. I can always drop the class and retake it with a different teacher, most of them have a letter grade drop for every day late. I am happy to sacrifice a little bit of my grade just to make sure it is done right, but not the whole grade!

    Everyone in the class saw my project, they know how hard I worked and what I sacrificed to do it. Then they watched the teacher give me an F. No one in that class is going to go out of their way to do anything exceptional again. They will all just limp through the class getting away with the bare minimum, and be happy the day they get out of a class with a bad teacher.

    There are other students having problems as well. Across from me in class is a nineteen year old kid who is now rethinking her degree because she cant grasp what this teacher wants from her.

    You can tell me I'm out of luck, that I should have contacted him even though I have no phone number or email address and blackboard is a pain that not many art teachers use, and I will except my situation as a learning experience, but not even for a second will I except that his method is an effective way to teach.

    If you never inspire a student with anything more than just the importance of due dates, never ignite a passion in them for what they want to do. Then it is me who has no sympathy for you.
     
  11. clarnet73

    clarnet73 Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    I don't think any of us said that the teacher is teaching the material well or using good policies... (of course, we can't judge simply based on what you've otld us) ... but unfortunately, in college, lots of professors are able to do whatever they want, fair or not (we've all had at least one who was ineffective at best!).

    I'm surprised that there wasn't an office phone number or a school email address or something as a way to get ahold of the professor. I don't think I ever had a prof in college who we weren't able to contact if needed.

    Go argue your point if you want, it doesn't look like you have anything else to lose...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  12. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    18,938
    Likes Received:
    682

    Nov 10, 2009

    Good luck.
     
  13. HMM

    HMM Cohort

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 10, 2009

    Not at any of the institutions I've worked at. I've always determined what and how I would grade.

    Yes.

    Not sure what you are asking for here.

    Your only option (other than accepting the grade or trying to convince the prof to change your grade) is to file a grievance...but you will lose.
     
  14. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 10, 2009

    A college prof who gave out no contact information? A department in a college who will not give out contact information? An office door that does not list office hours and contact information?

    I've never heard of such a thing, in all 5 colleges I've attended.

    You should've called before class on the day you were sick. You should've limped in to class on the due date, turned in your project, and then left explaining that you were ill. You should've known the prof's policies, and if he or she didn't provide you with a syllabus, you should've demanded one from either the prof or the department chair. Now you really have no leg to stand on.

    Sorry...best of luck to you.
     
  15. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,154
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 10, 2009

    The first semester I was back in college to get my BA degree, I had a lump on my throat and needed to have it removed. My husband had just lost his job and our insurance was up in 2 weeks. Three out of four of my classes were giving their first test the day of my surgery. Obviously I couldn't put off the surgery for a more convenient time. I had to contact each of the professors and ask if they were willing to give me the test early. One of them did not want to and almost didn't. I would have had to accept that and withdraw. He said he didn't want to because he would only have a rough draft at that point and some of those questions might be thrown out later if they were deemed bad. Ironically I took that test (with a few questions that were thrown out later before the other students took it) and made a higher grade than the highest grade given on that day and he curved the grade for the class. He told me he was astounded.

    As far as things not being fair. I deal with that all the time when my signing skills aren't native like but their English skills are not even close to being acceptable (in my opinion) yet they can make a better grade. My signing skills beat most of their English skills but in our program one has a higher priority than the other one even though I disagree. (Deaf Ed).
     
  16. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    (Ring) Hello I would like to leave a message for my teacher, I will be unable to make it to class today cause I'm sick. Thank you.

    (Ring) Hi this is your teacher, please show up with your project ready, despite your illness that could be contagious and the fact that class starts in five minutes and i did'nt get your message till I walked into the office. If you fail to turn in your project today you will get an F.

    Thats fair.

    Or this alternative....

    (Ring) Hi this is your teacher, I'm sorry your not feeling well. Everyone else in the the class that isnt bringing their projects in today will be getting an F. But since yours is such a unique case I will let you slide. Thank you for calling, if you just didnt show up my imagination would have run wild on me. I would never had guessed you have a legitimate excuse. I would have just naturally assumed your trying to disrespect me and my class. Call me and let me know when you get the card and flowers i sent you.

    I found the syllabus. It gives no indication of his late work policy. On the last three projects he gave us it was the same as every other teacher at this college, which is for every day late its a letter grade.

    I have 18 legs to stand on. Mine and the other 8 students that got F's. Some of which are in the Honor program and the others all deeply involved with the school and its organizations.
     
  17. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Nov 10, 2009

    I'm sorry, I simply don't understand. What exactly do you expect us to tell you? Several teachers, spanning a wide variety of ages and teaching kids on a wide variety of grades, have given you our opinions. Obviously it's contrary to yours, but it is telling that every single teacher who has responded has said the same thing.

    As to your 18 legs: I'm not sure exactly what the Honors program or involvement in the school have to do with anything, except to indicate that you're not alone.( Are you implying that participation in school activities should have any bearing on a student's class grade?) But you've already mentioned that it's a fairly irresponsible class (you called it "hard to control"; in college that means irresponsible) , so a number of F's isn't surprising.

    Unless you were in the hospital, it probably would have been possible to get the project into the mail so it would carry the postmark of the due date. You could have called and notified his office that you were ill and asked about the policy; surely the phone number can be found online? You had options. But you chose to hope that handing it in a class late would be acceptable, even in college. It's not acceptable in my high school, so that hope seems somewhat unrealistic to me. Particularly in light of the fact that you slaved, "24 hours at a time" on this project... why on earth would you jeopardize all that hard work on the assumption that it would be fine to hand the work in late?

    Last year I had a MULTITUDE of serious health issues-- 5 surgeries in 13 months, with 28 days of radiation radiation and some other issues thrown in. And there were times when someone else had to substitute for me. But I would never dream of assuming that it was OK to miss a deadlne; that simply is not the way the world works after high school. It's not how adults function. So any "elective" surgery was scheduled around vacations, and I did my best to require minimal accomodations.

    I'm sorry you think you were treated unfairly. I'm not so sure you were.
     
  18. futureteach21

    futureteach21 Habitué

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    1

    Nov 10, 2009

    I am a college student and feel for you but I have to agree with the others. I have had numerous health problems this semester and was hospitalized. Even then, I knew that as a college student, it was my responsibility to fill my professors in on what was going on. I kept them updated as I received information about my condition. Did I get to make up tests because I was sick? No. Did I earn my professors respect and were they more willing to help me out? Yes. You should have contacted your professor, maybe then you would have gotten the one day late penalty. How is your professor to know that you didn't spend a ton more time on the project then everyone else? That wouldn't be fair, and you wouldn't deserve the high grade.
     
  19. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Nov 10, 2009


    I'm with Alice; I don't get it. I don't get the situations you set up, and I really don't get this line:
    "On the last three projects he gave us it was the same as every other teacher at this college, which is for every day late its a letter grade."

    I hope you are not indicating that you and/or others have turned in projects late before. If that is the case, well...what exactly would you expect this prof to do in this situation?

    I sincerely hope you or one of the other 8 students who (irresponsibly) did not turn in an assignment for which you all seemingly worked very hard with can get your situation resolved.
     
  20. GoldenPoppy

    GoldenPoppy Habitué

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    I certainly hope this is directed at your professor and not the kind teachers here who have shared their thoughts with you. I think you need to grow up, realize that the real world isn't about what you think you deserve, and deal with the consequences of your choices.
     
  21. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 10, 2009

    I appreciate all of your responses, and I apologize for my sarcasm, but Ive been running all over the world looking for solutions to my problem, figuring out if I can change classes, how long I have left to drop the class, what that means for my grant, ext....

    What I mean when I say hard to handle, is that its a class of media art students in a community college night class. We are not living in a dorm on campus shooting for five beta kapa. We are all working full time jobs, kids, ext..... Are material can not be looked up in a book and the industry we have chosen is ruled by product and personality. Are projects are paintings and designs that represent feelings, moods and opinions, and require creative thinking and imagination. So while we work we talk amongst ourselves. I never thought for a second this to be an issue until he began takeing steps to separate people in the class by creating assigned seats. I'm guessing he believes it to take complete silence and consideration to splatter ink on a piece of paper or to cut pictures out of magizines. None of us do any of the real work in the class room because it would be too involved to drag all the supplies to and from locations, waisting paint, or beginning on a shade when we only have two hours before we have to be done with it or have to find the exact shade again later. Which is fine, instead we use class time to do sketches and to pull resources. So conversing with fellow artists for inspiration and ideas is essential.

    At least one maybe two of the students who have received Fs are straight A students. I really didnt see receiving a B on the project for being a day late as jeopordizing my work, just more of an inconvenience, but an F is just an unnecessary slap in the face. In my meeting with him I was told that if continue to bring in great work like the one he gave me an F for, that I would be safe to pass the class. But god knows when he will decide to blindside me with another minor infraction and send me through the ringer again. Who know's maybe he will start counting me absent for using the restroom without excusing myself.

    The challenge of the class shouldnt be weather or not I can turn it in on time. It should be about how well Im grasping the material and my improvement. I worry about the grade because I need it for the grant, otherwise I could care less. Its about what I take away from the class that matters. But no one is taking anything away from the class because they dont want bad grades, so they slap together whatever they can based on the loose description he gives then they bs there way through the critique.

    And yes this is directed at the teacher, and again I appreciate the responses, but if I find myself talking to someone who believes his teaching methods to be correct they will find themselves an argument for a few reasons. The first being that I did not bring up my thoughts on his teaching in our meeting and I needed time to figure out what the best course of action would be, and the second being that of all the people Ive talked to friends relatives, teachers at the college and people in the office, no one has disagreed with me..... yet.

    I dont really need anything from you any more, Im not looking to make you feel sympathetic or to make myself feel better by QQing on a forum. I'm still on here because a few of you sound like you believe that this teacher is just in his actions, maybe as teachers you forget what its like from my side.

    I am an adult, and I realize that the real world is what I make of it. I dont see a teacher who is having trouble with an unruly bunch of F students. I see a unexperienced man trying to control a room full of creative minds and he's making them all miserable because he cant get what he wants or what he thinks he deserves.
     
  22. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    18,938
    Likes Received:
    682

    Nov 11, 2009

    I think we understand your point of view and situation. I'm not sure if you have understood the members who responded, however. I'm not sure what you want from this forum. What can we do for you?
     
  23. Sam Aye M

    Sam Aye M Mr. Know-It-All

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    5

    Nov 11, 2009

    Like the others here, I am not sure what you want us to say.

    I am a full-time grad student taking 3-4 classes a quarter, plus internship, plus working full-time. If I get anything less than a B (and a B-minus IS less than a B), I will be having a meeting with my coordinator to explain what happened, and how I am going to make that class up. Yes, I will have to somehow make up a class I got a B- on. And nothing... NOTHING is ever accepted late. We can't even email our assignments in, they have to be turned in by hand. It's very clear, and no one would even think of testing that rule, because we would be out thousands of dollars in school tuition once we failed our class.

    Just a few weeks ago, I came down with a terrible case of the flu, and i had a project due that week. I knew there was no way that I would be able to attend class, so I emailed the teacher two days ahead of time to ask her what to do. I offered to email a final copy to her, just to show that I completed the work on time, then turn in a hard copy whenever I was able to return to campus. If that didn't work, I would show up to her office (probably infect her with my virus while I was there), turn it all in on time, then drive home and go back to sleep. I planned ahead, contacted the teacher to work something out, and was also ready to drive to the school sick if needed, and got the grade I deserved.

    Later that week, I wasn't quite 100% yet, but I knew that I had to show up for a particular class because others were depending on me. I was sick and miserable (and no longer contagious) in the back of the room, but it was what I had to do. I probably would have had to drop the class if I didn't show up that day. It sucked for me, but that's the way college works. You do what you gotta do.

    As for your own situation, talk to the professor, and see if he will change his mind. Tell him that earlier in semester, he only brought grades down one letter for being late, and now, without warning, it is an F. I don't think it will work, but it can't hurt to try. And if he doesn't change the grade, do the best work you can from here on out to get the highest grade possible. You may have to work extra hard in your other classes to keep your GPA high enough to keep your grant, but if that's what you gotta do, thats what you gotta do.

    And if nothing else... don't turn assignments in late without contacting your professor ahead of time ever again. Show up to class sick if you have to, drop it off, and then go home. You said earlier that "The challenge of the class shouldnt be weather or not I can turn it in on time." You're right, it shouldn't be. It appears that everyone in this thread agrees it shouldn't be a challenge. It sounds like your professor thinks so too.

    Good luck.
     
  24. hatima

    hatima Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    2

    Nov 11, 2009

    When I was in community college, yes, late work was an automatic F. Absolutely NO excuses. This was the policy at the college. As was miss three classes for ANY reason and you MAY be dropped.

    Some schools use this policy because of high absenteeism on days project are due. Sorry you were ill, but many people do use "illnesses" to cover not being ready to turn in the project.

    This wasn't unique for me, stricter yes. In high school we lost two letter grades per day an assignment was late..(Honors English)

    And just because teachers defend your prof. doesn't mean they've forgotten what it is like on the other side. You should understand teachers have frequent PD (trainings), NCLB and the government increasing control over education...unrealistically high expectations to make sure all students become geniuses in all academics. Also continuing edcuation, which means working full time, going to school part-time (some full time too) and maintaining a family life. BY THE WAY TEACHING DOESN'T START WITH THE BELL AND END WITH THE BELL. Teachers have a lot on thier plate and deadlines to meet...late papers do hurt the teacher's schedule. He or She finishes grading the papers, then they have a late one to grade.

    He had NINE late projects to grade! Yes, he should have told you of the change before he implemented it. But how many of the nine were knock out, can't leave home, sick? I'm guesses not all NINE were that sick.

    I've attended community college and a university, both required you call or email the prof, if you were sick. I'd say email is best, then you'd have proof you informed him you were missing due to illness. Phone he could hear it, maybe, unless your like me and can talk fairly well while sick.

    As to your last question, that varies greatly with schools. You have to check with your CC>
     
  25. Sad Student

    Sad Student Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nov 11, 2009

    Everyone of you has a horror story about how you had to drag yourself through hell to get something turned in on time, and in the end you accepted it as something you had to do.

    I'll die a a broke bum on the street with nothing but my pride before I accept the cruelty of a prof. and his out dated policies.

    Thank you all, I got what i needed.
     
  26. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    18,938
    Likes Received:
    682

    Nov 11, 2009

    This thread is closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. rastachoob
Total: 193 (members: 1, guests: 177, robots: 15)
test