Unequal Treatment of Educational Pedophiles

Discussion in 'General Education' started by titansrst, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. titansrst

    titansrst Rookie

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    Jan 13, 2008

    I am starting this new thread to jump on a question brought up on another thread, except I'm expanding the theme. We were discussing the question of hugging versus non-hugging and the writer asked why is it different for male teachers than our female peers. I ask this: why is the reprehensible act of a male teacher having sex with teen students treated so much more harshly than those involving female teachers doing the same with male students. The latter acts are downright disgusting, too, yet I saw a female teacher interviewed the other day about her "house arrest" and virtual slap on the wrist for unlawful sexual conduct with one of her students. In NJ a few years back we had a judge give a female teacher probation for unlawful sexual behavior, saying that there was no real harm done to the male student. The way we have reared boys in this country may make this more true than we'd like, and that is pathetic. But a crime is a crime and the sickest thing is that some of these female pedophiles will grace the cover 0f Playboy or somehow profit from her crime. I can't hug a kid and if I did do something illegal or inappropriate I would deserve the harshest punishment (castration with a dullm razor would be a good start) but a female teacher is given sympathy. Incredible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
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  3. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    I have to say I'm a little shocked at this situation... I personally have always found both to be equally reprehensible, and I'm surprised to hear that some people apparently don't...
     
  4. La Profesora

    La Profesora Cohort

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    Both male and female teachers that take advantage of their positions and use teaching as a dating service are deplorable. I've seen it in my school, but the teachers just kind of "disappeared." I wonder how often and in how many high schools it actually does happen.
     
  5. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    In either situation, it is an abuse of power and influence by the teacher. Even if the student is willing. They don't have the capacity to legally engage in that behavior with an adult.

    I think that both should be seen as equally reprehensible in the courts. Some people seem more shocked when a female is the perpetrator, I think. After all, we are completely inured to the relationship of a much older man and much younger woman. Just my two cents worth.
     
  6. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    I think there's an unspoken belief that boys being sexual are doing what men do (and perhaps what men can't help but do), whereas girls being sexual are (a) being seduced (which is unnatural and threatening) or (b) sluts (which is disgusting and threatening).

    And how many fathers have ever contemplated sitting up with a shotgun to protect their sons' purity?
     
  7. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Jan 13, 2008

    TG, my DH always says when you have a boy you only have one thing to worry about, when you have a girl, you have every thing to worry about.
     
  8. La Profesora

    La Profesora Cohort

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    WOW! That was a REALLY great explanation! I total concur!!!
     
  9. La Profesora

    La Profesora Cohort

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    My brother said the EXACT same thing when he found out I was having a boy, not a girl like we originally thought!
     
  10. KLP1220

    KLP1220 Rookie

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    Jan 13, 2008

    I am a little surprised by that...I think man or woman, the crime deserves equal punishment. I really believe that any kind of sexual assault,molestation, etc is wrong in all forms. I don't even know if previous sexual abuse or other personal situations should be considered. I really believe that any teacher should know that regardless the age any activity of a sexual nature with a student is wrong! One of my fellow classmates was a substitute teacher and it came out that she had had an inappropriate relationship with a young teenage boy. She was charged and convicted of a crime.(I do not remember the exact term for it).

    Either way though I think that when an educator, male or female betrays a student/parents/school systems trust in that manner they should be sentenced accordingly! I don't think house arrest is anywhere near good enough.

    Many times I am angry at all adults in general that have committed a sex crime to a child. I was disgusted to read that I was not aloud to hug or be in the restroom with my kindergarten Sunday school class. Once child had an accident and I had to break that rule. When the children come up to hug me I let them! I am aware that there are reasons those rules are in place but it still bothers me.
     
  11. live2teachMusic

    live2teachMusic Rookie

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    Jan 13, 2008

    huge double standard, that's for sure. We just had a teacher leave his wife for a 19 y.o. girl 2 days after graduation last year. He chose not to come back as nothing could be proven before her graduation (rumors were there) and nothing he did AFTER graduation affects his employment. And since he had tenure, it's not like he could be released like an annual contracted teacher could.

    But, if only to play devils advocate here, is it wrong to develop a relationship with a former student during the summer after graduation? My example, it was clear they didn't develop it afterwards, but what happens if a teacher does? Is it any different than becoming best friends with a student of the same sex after graduation. I mean, 24 and 19 (5 years) are closer in age than me and my wife (6 years), and closer in age than me and my best friend (8 years). Technically, I could have taught my wife my first year teaching had she not lived in another state at the time. And my best friend was at a rival highschool my first year teaching (didn't know him then either)
     
  12. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    Jan 13, 2008

    In a previous position (unrelated to teaching), my supervisor commented that she didn't understand what the big deal is, that it is probably every young boy's fantasy to have sex with their female teacher. I found her opinion shocking, but it is quite obvious that she shares that the opinion of our judicial system, based on the light sentencing of female pedophiles. The point is, is that children are children, whether they are female children or male children. We are supposed to be protecting them, not preying upon them and abusing them. It is wrong for anyone to do this, and both men and women should be punished equally.
     
  13. live2teachMusic

    live2teachMusic Rookie

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    I will agree that I had some nice fantasies when I was a student. I mean, if a 17 y.o. is already having sex, and has a 24 y.o. teacher that's good looking, it's only natural to fantasize. The way I looked at it, I was an adult, she was an adult, I knew what I was getting into.

    The way the law translates, apparently, 17 y.o. girls are easier to dupe and are viewed as weaker and must be protected more than 17 y.o. boys.
     
  14. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    This topic gets me so mad. I've said a bunch of times before that my parents take in "tough case" foster children, and that almost ALWAYS involves sexual abuse. I've seen first hand the results of this kind of abuse. Boys, girls, teenagers, toddlers, it's just as detramental to the child, in different ways, but just as bad. Any adult having sex with a child should be drawn and quartered, regardless of gender.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I think that perhaps one explanation as to why female teachers preying on young male students is not considered as vulgar as male teachers preying on young female students is that with males it is considered strictly a sexual situation, while with females you often see the emotional aspect. People perceive the men as being only interested in the sex, while people might perceive the females as wanting a true, legitimate relationship. Both scenarios are equally disturbing, but perhaps people take less offense to it when the female teacher is "confused" enough to think of the relationship as being valid.


    What do I think? Both are truly stomach-turning...I'm just trying to answer the question.
     
  16. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    In the ideal world, one would look at the harm actually caused.

    Minors having sex with each other isn't reprehensible, right? Even if you disagree with it, you don't likely attach significant blame to either party.

    Who's less likely to walk away from such a relationship without significant emotional harm? The boy. Still -- even if it IS just for reasons of culture.

    Now, how do you think a pedophile trial might work? Personally I haven't seen one, but I can imagine the sort of evidence that might be presented. First would be proof that the perpetrator did it. Emails, photos, testimony, whatever. After proving the statutory rape, prosecutors would go as far as possible towards proving the reprehensibility of the acts. If the teacher specifically manipulated -- say, told the teen that no one else would ever love them, or explicitly promised them A's or a college recommendation, or used some other underhanded manipulation, it would be viewed as worse than if it were merely a random relationship without any of those things, right? No one disagree?

    Part of the reprehensibility would surely be determined by the effect on the victim. Suppose the student had continually protested that they wanted to end the relationship, but the teacher pressed to continue it. Further, imagine that the student started having trouble in other classes, withdrawing from friends, started taking medication for depression, or something of the sort. All that goes to how destructive an effect the relationship had, right? And should be taken into account in punishment?

    If all that's so, you can't really say the judicial system is biased. It's simply far easier to prove the act reprehensible, and specifically more reprehensible, with females than with males. If the student's not a virgin when the relationship starts, and doesn't expect the relationship to last, it's harder to make a case for lasting harm.

    Think of the potential questions that would be asked in court, and how a male or female student would respond.

    "Were you a virgin when you started the relationship with X?"
    "Did you love X?"
    "How long did you imagine the relationship lasting?"
    "Who initiated the relationship?"
    "Did you take antidepressant medication while in the relationship with X?"

    The defendant, in the meantime, does get to present evidence indicating their lack of intent. You can imagine the same questions asked of the perpetrator, and see where they'd be just as biased towards letting female perpetrators off easier.

    Yes, there's a bias, but it's a bias built into the culture, not the judicial system. Looked at honestly, our culture does not think the two situations are equivalent. Looked at honestly, I don't believe any of you can actually prove that they are equivalent. Essentially, you have to show that boys and girls have the same reactions and get into relationships for the same reasons, get the same things out of them, and face the same dangers within them.

    I'm not saying this to be argumentative. If I didn't look at it critically and examine my own assumptions carefully, I'd come to exactly the same conclusion as most of you: that they should be treated equally. I had to weigh this against the fact that I would be really upset if a teacher did anything with my sons, but that it would still be different than if I had a daughter.
     
  17. cheeryteacher

    cheeryteacher Enthusiast

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    They should be treated equally. I think that they aren't for many of the reasons already listed. In the case of man with girl, the girl is often seen as the victim-a shy, quiet girl who would have never done such a thing if she wasn't manipulated by the adult. In the case of woman with boy, the boy is often seen as an over-sexed teen who seduces the teacher into having sex-thereby making the teacher the victim.
     
  18. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    In fact, I think the teacher with the boy is seen as pitiable: she's going down in status, not up. By the same token, we're okay with women wearing pants, but a man in a skirt gives people the creeps (well, unless the skirt is called a kilt or a lava-lava, but then again the person who's imprudent enough to question a Samoan's or Scot's masculinity rarely lives to tell the tale).
     
  19. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    I think it is viewed differently because of the difference in physical power between a man and a woman. Either situation is totally and equally wrong, and messes up the kid, no matter what anyone says. I think we view the male teacher as able to over power the female student, but not so with the female teacher and male student. I think it is deep in our phychological makeup to be more threatened by the one.

    But either way, the people should be locked up for good. A woman weilds more emotional power in these situations with the young man. In my mind, it is just about the most horrible thing a person can do.

    I would bet that female teachers who do this have been abused at some time in their lives also, while that isn't necessarily so with the male abuser. So we as a society give more slack to the female. Oh it is just so yucky to think about! I hate it. But this double standard is totally wrong!
     
  20. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    The chances that the double standard here will go away are between slim to none - unless we want to go easier on the men.
     
  21. La Profesora

    La Profesora Cohort

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    LOL that's so true!
     
  22. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    As a mother of a son, I would have to take over the punishment for the judicial system if this happened to my child. My son is just as precious as my daughter. I have sit and had allegations made against my son for sexual harassment and when the girl admitted she lied, nothing was done to her. I felt that she should have gotten the punishment that the school had planned for him. I also thought about suing the school over it. (they called in an officer to "discuss" his behavior. This was upsetting to him. They did not call in the school lawyer or the police to "discuss" her conduct.)
     
  23. La Profesora

    La Profesora Cohort

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    I would have sued - its ok to punish your son, but when the girl admits she lied she gets off? NO WAY!!!! That's making a false statement. That's crappy.
     
  24. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I hate the fact that teachers get this terrible publicity by a small few when so many do just the opposite for kids. But I swear that after the age of 13, boys (my peer group for sure)
    have one thing on their minds. I dont think the Fla teacher could have "assualted" me when I was 14.
     
  25. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    Oh yes she could. Yes, the boys are over-sex-charged at that age, but the female teacher used emotional coercion. It is just wrong. Just because a person of either sex is thinking about sex or wanting sex, that does not justify the older, more experienced and powerful person imposing sex on the younger inexperienced. That is like saying if a girl is dressed "sl***y" she "deserves" to be raped. The less powerful/experienced person just doesn't have the ability to outmaneuver the more experienced/powerful.
     
  26. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    I think what stephenpe means is, that for at least some boys that age, the most "coercion" the vast majority of females need to use can be summed up in one word: Yes.

    Really, a lot of the time they don't even have to say that.
     
  27. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    Doesn't matter. That is why teachers are expected to keep hands off!!!!!!!!!!!

    I think these predators or even lack-of-judgment people of both sexes should have the book thrown at them.

    I know of a young boy who was forced, yes, held down against his will, at about the age of 9 and forced by a 13 year old girl to have sex. He has been damaged and will deal with this all his life.
     
  28. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Fact is, the laws throughout history have been made by and enforced by men; it's only in the last century that rape began to be prosecuted as an offense against a woman rather than against her father or husband.
     
  29. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    If a "man" had sex with my 14 year old daughter, the law would throw the book at him. Why doesn't my 14 year old son have those same rights?
     
  30. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    To be crude, because he doesn't get penetrated and can't be impregnated. In addition, for much of human history, a fourteen-year-old girl who has intercourse with someone to whom she's not married is seen as having been violated, but a fourteen-year-old boy who has intercourse with an older woman is seen as having gotten very, very lucky. Am I endorsing this? No: but the double standard is still very much alive.

    If the boy has intercourse with a man... then you'll see the book thrown.
     
  31. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    So we need to keep speaking up and get things changed so all teachers keep all their hands off all the students. This is just disgusting. We should watch ourselves and watch each other.
     
  32. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    We had a judge say "a 14y/o girl gets raped, a 14y/o boy gets lucky"
    He was not reelected
     
  33. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    No one deserves to be violated but we do have "aggressive" students, who by law can not consent to the sex act, these "Adultchildren" are never held accountable.

    When I was first teaching I had a female student straddle my hand that was on the corner of the table! I reported it immediately! nothing was done to her but I was told not to be in the room alone with her (CYA). To this day I never have female students in my room alone or I prop the door wide open. I never tutor female students after school one on one.
     
  34. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    You are a smart man Irishdave - we have the same policy throughout our elementary school. No one is allowed to break the rule of not being alone with a student. We should do this just to protect ourselves.
     

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