Undocumented students

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Mar 6, 2017

    Yes, dead in its tracks, as in not fought in the courts,....rewritten. As in, when the admin tried to tell the courts to "ignore" the part about the visas and green cards, the court responded with...uhm, this is not how it works, you have to change it. NOT clarify, not better explain a misunderstood point, but remove the nonsense that they wanted in, but won't pass legal muster.
     
  2. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    The Holocaust didn't become the Holocaust over night. It happened bit by bit, inch by inch, because people gradually accepted tiny little injustices that became a tiny bit worse. I don't think anybody considers anything that has happened in recent US history to be truly Holocaust level, but I for one would rather stand up against 1933 Germany-level injustices now rather than wait to see if history unfolds.
     
  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Well, I happen to believe it is an injustice to the citizens of our country to allow violators to our immigration policies to go unchecked.
     
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  4. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I know I feel safer and more secure in my country knowing that 2 10 year old violators from my school have been forcefully removed from the only country they have conscious memories of.
     
  5. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Re-read this post this morning and decided to delete it - not being passive aggressive, just realized it could do more harm than good. Sorry folks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
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  6. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Mar 8, 2017

    So EdEd, can you give me an example of what you would like to happen if people are "sensitive to the plight of families seeking a better life and kids who may have been brought here illegally but now find a home here" and "yet at the same time understand that it's absurd to not enforce immigration policy and, in essence, have default open borders?"

    What would this look like? From my experience most "liberals" are in favor of comprehensive immigration reform with the understanding that those who have been here for many years, have a path to legal status. Most, myself included, are vehemently opposed to seperating families, especially since many have been in this country, working for US employers for over 20 years.

    What alternative do you have? I have not heard of any good compromise other than this one.
     
  7. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Mar 8, 2017

    Hey Pashtun - I surely don't have all the answers, and my main message throughout this thread has not been a specific advocacy for a certain policy, but rather the way in which we're talking about it. There is a latent lack of respect and understanding for "the other side" that's quite visible in many posts, and I think that's what's harmful - before we even begin talking about solutions. We can't possibly find mutually agreeable answers if we have no idea why on earth someone else might be thinking something. "Seek first to understand, then be understood."

    So, to weigh in on your specific question: Public policy, and what's good for the whole, isn't always good for every single person out there. By creating a situation in which families who come here illegally get to stay indefinitely & legally, you're creating an awkward situation that incentivizes people to come here illegally. That's not just a problem for those here legally and those trying to immigrate here legally - it's a problem for the families trying to come here illegally as well. The path to crossing the border illegally is generally not easy, and involves quite a bit of psychological and sometimes physical trauma. In short, it's just not a good solution - it's not fair to put kids through that to begin with.

    The uncomfortable truth from a policy perspective is that, in order to discourage this from happening, we may need to enforce the policies we've put in place, even if it causes problems for some people. It's simply not a sustainable response to say that we aren't going to enforce laws that cause discomfort for kids. I believe it was a2z that brought up a good point - families are disrupted so much more frequently when parents are arrested for crimes, for example. Are we not going to arrest parents with children at home simply because they've got kids at home and it may disrupt their lives?

    That being said, maybe a good solution is a temporary one year window of opportunity for certain families who have been here for more than 5, employed, etc. to apply for legal status. That expires at the end of the year, not to be instated again - taken off the table. This may create a better short-term solution for those families caught in the crosswinds of the changing immigration policy. Would this be a solution? Maybe another one is to always offer for the family to go with the person being deported. In other words, if families want to split up physical location so that some can stay, fine - but that's a decision they can make, rather than our country as a policy decision. Maybe this already happens?

    Overall, in short, I get it: I get that disrupting families is terrible. I wouldn't want to do it, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Those kids don't deserve it. But, there aren't always perfect policy answers, and it may be something we have to do, and may actually lead to less family disruption over time. We also have to remember that any policy we create will have negative affects on families. If we incentive illegal immigration, that creates problems for families & kids too.
     
  8. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I think this would be a great solution, as long as "window of opportunity" means they have a direct simple path to legal status, no douchebag politics of, "well they got a traffic ticket for rolling through a stop sign10 years ago, they violated the law...bye bye"

    Now, EdEd, do you think the other side would be willing to accept something like this?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Pashtun, you and I aren't always on the same side of a discussion, but we are definitely on the same page here.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Could you please cite where someone is being deported because their sole crime aside from being in the country illegally was rolling through a stop sign?
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Mar 8, 2017

    Here's the executive order:
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...order-enhancing-public-safety-interior-united

    It says that the government will "prioritize for removal" any undocumented person who has been convicted of any crime or who is suspected of a crime but not yet convicted.
     
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  12. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Good thing for illegal aliens that most stares don't allow them to get driver's licenses. It will reduce the chance they get a fine for a traffic violation.
     
  13. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Since I am "the other side" but am just one view, I will say that I believe anyone here illegality should be deported just as would happen in any other country. I understand that you and others have different opinions. I don't think they even have to commit a crime.

    The last time our country granted amnesty was one time too many. I don't mind legal immigration and have friends and relatives from different countries.

    So what percentage of kids do you give a pass to when they get caught cheating? Do you let them keep doing so if their previous teacher didn't care?
     
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  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Mar 8, 2017

    If cheating on a test in my class meant that a kid could stay alive instead of get blown up or starve to death, that kid can cheat all he wants.
     
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  15. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Mar 8, 2017

    How to you encourage the rest of the class to not cheat, so to speak?
     
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