Undocumented students

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Is anyone else concerned about their students without papers? Have your administrators talked to you about what might happen in the coming months and how it might impact you, your students, and their families? Are you concerned that there may be raids or apprehensions at your school?
     
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  3. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    I'm sure we have a lot of undocumented students. Probably a lot more parents. No one talked to us, I didn't even think about immigration trying to come to school. Can they? Are people supposed to carry proof that they're citizens, or green card holders? I'm not carrying proof, I'm a citizen, but my passport is at home, and I don't carry my social security card. If I'm at home, there should be a reasonable expectation for me to provide documentation, but not on the street, at school or work.
     
  4. cupcakequeen

    cupcakequeen Comrade

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    I'm a little concerned. I actually think the majority of my Hispanic students were born here (not that it's something I ask them) but I think it might be an issue for a lot of their parents. Two of my 3rd graders were talking the other day and I heard part of the conversation, about how the older sister of one girl shouldn't be going on a trip if she didn't "have her papers." When another student asked what she meant, she said "The papers that say you were born here. I have mine so I'm okay."

    My husband immigrated from Europe when he was a kid, and while I know he has his social security card/passport/citizenship papers in our safe, it's not like he carries them with him anywhere. I also wouldn't imagine it would be the best idea to entrust important documents (even copies) to elementary aged kids.
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I have no idea who may be undocumented among our students. I highly doubt that immigration services would come to my elementary school.
     
  6. creativemonster

    creativemonster Comrade

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    very concerned. My district actually reminded us that ICE is (currently) not allowed on district property without a court order. I'm sure that is unless they are there to discuss their own child's progress should they have a child in our schools. I shared this info with my students. Unfortunetly, this is not a new issue for some of our students. I have had some who have had caretakers deported under other administrations. It's just that this is the first time there is the loaded language and other assorted issues connected with it.

    I also shared with my seniors that in our state DACA students are (at least as of now) eligible for financial aid, and should talk to their guidance counselor. Some are not aware of this and so don't apply.
     
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  7. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Interesting timing- my superintendent just sent out a message for staff about this today. She sent something out right after the election about how our district will continue to "welcome and serve all children." Today her message said that in light of recent actions and rhetoric against immigrants, she felt the need to "reaffirm" this and make it clear that students' immigration status is not the school district's business. She asked us not to share any information about any student or answer any questions at all, and if asked anything about a student's immigration status, we should contact her immediately.
     
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  8. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I have some students whose parents are in Mexico. They haven't seen them in a while. One visited her mom at Christmas and the other hasn't seen his dad since before school started.
     
  9. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    This is very sad. I can't imagine that there would be raids in our school but you never know. I know of people in college who are worried about deportations. It's sad because they are working hard at their degree and they came to the US when they are young.
     
  10. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I'm not worried. Our admin has too made it clear all students are welcome, we are in Utah where the rather dominate LDS church has influence and the perspective is family-over-status, and, well, we just have a very big Latino/Hispanic culture that'd be hard to go against. Plus folks have already been tinkering out some bills to officially protect students in the state.
     
  11. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I am not concerned tha immigration will show up at the school, however I think it is possible with what I have seen so far. What I am truly concerned about is if the fear continues to grow we will simply start noticing a certain amount and ethnicity of students just stop coming to school. Parents will stop sending them if they(the parents) are in fear.
     
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  12. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  13. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    What does the law say? Is there anything specific?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  14. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I also believe, that the students need to see that THEIR PARENTS are loved and welcomed in our society. I really believe how we treat their parents impacts how they view our society(and will behave in it) just as much or more than how they themselves are treated. They are going to be extremely hateful, imo, if their parents and older family members are removed, living in fear,...etc.
     
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  15. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    My superintendent said there is a supreme court case, Plyer V. Doe, that says schools aren't allowed to deny students FAPE based on immigration status and that based on that case and FERPA it's "not the school's business" to know a student's immigration status and if something is known we're not allowed to give that information to anyone else.
     
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  16. msleep

    msleep Rookie

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    This case is referencing giving an education to someone. It does not prevent deportation.
     
  17. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Right, that's what I said...that's what FAPE is. The point is that sending kids to school isn't increasing the likelihood that they'll get "caught," which is what I think many parents/families are concerned about. They think the school is documenting their family's status and may report that information to someone else.
     
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  18. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I am not so sure parents are worried about getting caught at or because of sending their children to school, I think it is being caught and separated from their children.
     
  19. Mr Magoo

    Mr Magoo Comrade

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    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  20. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    The messages coming from my district are a result of concerns they're hearing from families. People are worried about it. I have had two parents bring it up to me personally within the past 3 weeks.
     
  21. FourSquare

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  22. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I don't doubt this, what I am saying is, that if people start being swept up, if fear spreads, I really think they will stop sending their kids to school. It won't matter, imo, if raids or info is not coming from or at school. Parents will want their kids at hand if they have to move, one parent is taken in...etc.
     
  23. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Fanatic

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    I live in Arizona. I am very worried. It is so sad.
     
  24. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    I'm not really worried about immigration coming to TAKE students from school, but I'm sure some of my students have undocumented parents. All my kids but one were born in the US, but I don't know about their parents. There was one girl at my school who apparently went to Mexico with her family over winter break and couldn't get back into the United States, so that's a bit of a concern.
     
  25. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I teach in a magnet program within a Title I school. Long story short, my students are all fine, but this is a big concern with the general education population. We had a couple students get deported a couple weeks ago, to a country they hadn't seen since they were infants. How that made our country safer, I'll never be able to tell you.
     
  26. Geologygirl

    Geologygirl Comrade

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    Our admin and district have sent us information. We are a santuary district though. I also teach an specialized sciece class for ell students so that might have been why my admin sent us the info. I know they need a very specific specialized subpoena to see student records or be able to get teachers to talk about students. Plus we are not to ask students what their legal status is. I personally am very worried about what might happen to my immigrant students regardless of legal status.
     
  27. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I thought that parents needed to produce paperwork (birth certificate, SS card, etc.) to enroll students in school. So anyone can enroll their kid in school willy nilly??
     
  28. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I think they need to show proof of address and birth certificate where I work.
     
  29. 3Sons

    3Sons Connoisseur

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    My son has a foreign birth certificate we used to register him for school. He's a citizen, but there's no way the school would be sure of that.

    FERPA, incidentally, would be a pretty minor obstacle to a governmental agency. They might need a subpoena (or might not, depending on how they can justify it under state law). Unless the agency were particularly inept, the first time they came in they would already have what they needed.
     
  30. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I am envisioning scenarios where ICE agents come in and demand to know the whereabouts of Student X. Even if they produce all the appropriate paperwork, I don't believe that I'm going to be willing to turn over my student. I just can't participate in all this.
     
  31. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Honestly, I don't know if I anticipate it being a huge thing. The Obama administration was extremely tough on illegal immigrants and the school system lived through that. I do know of quite a few adults who were deported during that, but no students.
     
  32. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    We were told at our last staff meeting that we have the right to remain silent when speaking to ICE officers, as with any law officer. You do not have to open your door to an officer unless a warrant signed by a judge is produced. Ask them to slide the warrant under the door. If there is a signature, you do have to let the agent in at that point, but you still have the right to remain silent until your (district's) lawyer present.

    I don't think it will come to this...at least, I hope it won't. But it is still good to know your rights, just in case.
     
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  33. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I believe I would be able to do so. I would feel terrible that I had to do so, but if their family is in violation of the law, it is not my place to hinder law enforcement.
     
  34. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Right now I don't think that legality is necessarily the best litmus test for whether a thing is ethically and morally right. Plain, ordinary people just doing their jobs have been responsible for some pretty terrible stuff over the years, and it looks like not much has changed on that front. I'm okay with not doing something that is legal (and maybe with doing something that is illegal) if by making that choice I will remain morally right. I'm pretty sure that someone once said something about the path to freedom not always being legal.

    Just some food for thought: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-airport-inhumanity-20170206-story.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  35. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I think it is moral to enforce the laws of my country.

    Di you really think we should pick a few instances of bad behavior and choices and generalize it to everything remotely related? The teaching profession would have to be abolished as criminal, inhumane, unethical, and immoral.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  36. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    It's not a few instances of bad behavior and choices that I'm talking about. I'm saying that it was normal, everyday people, not faceless government monsters, who participated in the rounding up of the Jews and slavery and a host of other atrocities. I won't be a party to what is happening and what will happen, even if it's legal and even if law enforcement asks me to comply.
     
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  37. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Nice. The Nazi comparison. Guess this discussion is over.
     
  38. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    That's a deliberate misreading and exaggeration of Caesar's point, a2z.
     
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  39. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    No, teachergroupie, it isn't.

    Caesar linked an article comparing a few terrible instances of detention at a few airports as the example of people should not say anything or help the law enforcement remove violators.

    That was the rationale.

    When that didn't work it went to the holocaust.

    No exaggeration was done. Using a few terrible instances to claim something shouldn't be done is really no different than those who are against the profession because of the actions of a few horrible apples.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
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  40. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Okay so if I had stuck with just slavery and the Underground Railroad, that would have been acceptable and less offensive to you? Let's do that then. Helping slaves run away via the Underground Railroad was also illegal. It was still the morally right thing to do.
     
  41. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Wow. Slavery now. Also another poorly thought out comparison.

    Illegal aliens made conscious decisions for their families. They knew our laws exist and can be enforced. Slaves and their families didn't come to this country by choice. Illegal aliens are free to return to their home country. They aren't owned. They chose to violate our laws and continue to do so.

     
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