UNBELIEVABLE!

Discussion in 'General Education' started by nstructor, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. nstructor

    nstructor Cohort

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  3. shoreline02

    shoreline02 Cohort

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    Apr 15, 2018

    Wow!
     
  4. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    S***tiest govenor in the country award...this guy makes our former governor Christie look reasonable!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2018
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  5. Hokiegrad1993

    Hokiegrad1993 Comrade

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    Apr 15, 2018

    This is horrible....
     
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  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Exactly and eloquently stated, my friend. What an a-hole!!! How dare he accuse teachers of that!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2018
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  7. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    My sympathy is with the teachers of Kentucky. I am so proud of these women (and men) marching for better support for their schools. The governor sounds like a moron.
     
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  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    He sounds like a raging incompetent and mental invalid...
     
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  9. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    What a d-bag.
     
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  10. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    "because there was nobody there to watch them.."

    So..... we are babysitters now???

    Beavis (no typo intended here) must have taken notes from Butt-Head Mayor Emmanuel in Chicago. Emanuel also felt that the CPS teachers were being irresponsible for going on strike in 2012, accusing them of endangering the children of Chicago, because they could not go to school.

    "Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel is seeking a legal injunction to end the strike in the nation’s third largest school district on the grounds that “it was called over issues that teachers are not legally permitted to strike about and that it endangers the health and safety of children,” according to The New York Times."

    EDUCATION
    09/18/2012 09:13 am ET Updated Nov 18, 2012

    Hmmmm....

    Mr. Mayor, why don't you clean up the city, and take care of the violence, abandoned buildings, and create jobs for underprivileged youth? Maybe then the Chicago won't be such a dangerous place for children.

    And adults.

    Because there's nobody to watch us either, apparently.
     
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  11. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    I guess teachers are responsible for nights, weekends, holiday, summers and bad weather closures, too?
     
  12. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    What a moron.
     
  13. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    That governor made a political calculation that voters sympathetic to teachers and schools are outnumbered by the other voters. I'm guessing that's a bad move.
     
  14. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Didn’t you know? It’s our jobs to fix every problem in society. How did you not know this?! :p
     
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  15. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Yeah, we took the place of farmers, when our country became industrialized. Once the crops were picked, no reason to have kids working. Let them run wild and have fun in the summer. Well, I guess we should be 'watching them' in the summer too.
     
  16. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I think the statement is terrible to make, but there is a big difference between planned time off and an extended unplanned time off not related to weather.
     
  17. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    It was sarcasm. :rolleyes:o_O:whistle:
     
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  18. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    The governor's comment was terrible. But there is a big difference between planned time off and unexpected extended time off of school when trying to find child care, especially for the poor.

    Make all of the insulting emojis you want. The fact is when teachers decide to strike or walk out unexpectedly there are unintended consequences. While teacher's may not be responsible for those times in the legal manner, their choices do have consequences within the community.

    But, hey, isn't the whole point of a strike to make things difficult for the parents and students so that they will ultimately support the teachers in their cause?
     
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  19. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    only if the poor expect the primary role of teachers is to provide daycare. Which many people do - they see school as a place to hold kids so the parents do not have to take care of them during the day.
     
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  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Normally, I am against protesting because it is highly disruptive and it can turn dangerous fairly quickly. However, in this instance, I am 100% on the side of the striking teachers. It is appalling that school districts only offer them a $1,000 raise over decades in addition to indefinite pay freezes. They are paid so low that minimum wage workers in California make comparable pay to some teachers and that is not acceptable. At. All.

    It’s not fair for someone to have a Bachelors degree, do hours and hours of teacher observations, complete a lengthy and taxing teacher credential program that can last anywhere from 1-2 years, be required to get a Masters degree in some states (another 1-2 years of schooling), have to take numerous and expensive certification tests, and after all said and done are only offered $36,000 to start and a salary schedule that tops out at $45,000. It’s an insult to the teaching profession and to the teachers who devote their lives to educating the next generations. These politicians brought in on themselves. There are numerous ways they could have funded education, liking taxing the lottery, alcohol and tobacco sales, etc. They always have some excuse for how they severely underpay teachers.

    Let me demonstrate, I entered $36,000 for a teacher of my experience (4th-year teacher with a Masters and clear credential) on Payscale and do you know what percentile came up? 4th percentile for wage earners. That’s how severely underpaid teachers in red states are paid and it’s totally unacceptable when they make next to nothing almost their entire careers. Especially since people can make much more money starting an entry-level job out of college with little to no skill set or work experience and no certifications or advanced training.

    I’m glad that teachers are not letting this stand any longer. It’s about time that they are paid what they are worth, just like every other position out there in the private industry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  21. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I can definitely attest to this. My school has an extended school day (for which teachers are paid pretty generously). With recent budget issues in the district, a few people suggested that the extended day be eliminated, potentially saving hundreds of thousands of dollars. The community rallied against it very strongly, not because of the additional academic support but because it's one less hour at home or with a paid childcare provider.
     
  22. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    No. I respectfully disagree.

    The purpose of a strike is to make the district management and the school board understand the struggles that teachers face. We are in the business to help children, not harm them. We protest unfair treatment and unequal advantages because we want what is BEST for all kids.

    Whether or not the parents understand or agree is not the issue, IMO - because they don’t know what we deal with on a daily basis. They have 2-8 children compared to our 16-34. And in many cases with middle and high schoolers, the students do support us because they care and also want us to have the best equipment and fair wages and work environment.

    If there were no schools, all parents would be faced with the ‘problem’ of child care. That is not the purpose of education. This is not a poor person’s dilemna. If that were the case, blame Target and Wal-Mart for 12 hr Thanksgiving holiday shifts when most poor working parents want to be home.

    As a single mom, I struggled with finding coverage during school institute days, improvement days and 2 weeks of Xmas and one week of spring break. Then, I had to prepare for 12 weeks of summer. That was my responsibilty as a parent. I don’t fault the teachers for any of that. Yeah, I stayed home and used sick days so I wouldn’t pay Kindercare extra, but hey...that’s my job. As a parent, I’m responsible for the welfare and safety of my child. I want the same for my grand child. I don’t expect teachers to “watch” her.

    They are there to help her learn.
     
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  23. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Why can't that be done without hurting the families and children?

    How does standing outside and holding a sign help management understand struggles?

    They are planned days off. They are easier to find help for than last minute, unexpected days off.
     
  24. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    I'll make some more emojis. If you find them insulting, I'm sorry.

    :confused::eek::rolleyes:o_O:dizzy::whistle::spitwater:
     
  25. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    If there were no schools, our society would look much different and different decisions would have been made in the past. You can't compare a society with no schools vs an unexpected teacher strike. One example of how society has adapted to schools is that camps and child care centers ramp up for those weeks when school is not in session having care available for society. They wouldn't be designed this way if there was no school at all.
     
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  26. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    You are a moderator?
     
  27. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Teachers are not babysitters.

    That’s my opinion.

    Excuse me while I wake up my children from nap. I have more teaching to do.
     
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  28. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I agree that teachers are not babysitters. Part of their job is caring for children while the children are at school. There is a difference between the two.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  29. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Yes, and moderators can post emojis. How they are interpreted is up to the reader.
     
  30. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    It says moderator under my screen name and in my avatar. ;)
     
  31. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Apparently we don’t agree. :banghead:
     
  32. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Sorry. A mistake in typing. I corrected it. I agree that teachers are not babysitters.
     
  33. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Don't hurt your emoji head over it. ;) Not worth it.
     
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  34. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Strikes can be damaging in the here and now, but they serve the greater good in the long run. The powers that be almost never hand over what's needed without being forced to do so, and that's what a strike does. It draws attention to a bad situation and initiates change when other efforts could not.

    Teachers aren't immune to the damage caused by striking. Most of them would rather not strike if there were any better option. They'd rather be in their classrooms with their students going about their normal day-to-day activities.
     
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  35. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Camp counselors are not teachers. Child care centers are not babysitters either. They hire extra staff and teens volunteers for the summer.

    I have the utmost respect for camp workers. There is no way I would work summers where kids play all day. That is mentally and physically exhausting to me. We were designed to care for x amount of children. Parents care for children.

    My job is to teach.

    If you hold teachers liable and obligated to ‘watch’ children, then throw doctors and nurses in the same boat.

    I see this scenario over and over. Hospitals care for sick people and injuries. Once there is no medical reason to keep you, patients are discharged. Families complain. “He is still in pain, can’t walk.”. That’s why you are sent to a nursing home and/or rehab at home. There, you are cared for and watched.

    Nurses don’t watch patients.
    Policemen don’t watch criminals.
    Teachers don’t watch children.

    We are educators.
     
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  36. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Really??

    So when your child is unexpectedly sick, you take him to school anyway? You are supposed to plan for this. It’s called life. Because teachers need to teach, not care for children, especially sick ones. This is why we get the flu twice, and strep throat all within 2 months time.




    This is why we call them when kids get sick at school. So the parents can come get their child. We should not be held accountable for the total ‘care’ of children. It is unreasonable to expect this from us.

    Families and their children need to have alternate plans in place. That is what life is about - they need to plan. School is for learning. It’s a business, and people need to be paid and treated with respect. There is no entitlement here.

    One cold winter, Chicago had the luxury of having the bus drivers go on strike, the fire fighters, and the garbage workers as well.

    Do you think any families and children were hurt? Didn’t these public sevants have an obligations to take care of us??
     
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  37. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    It's not my job to worry about what happens when the student is not in the classroom. I teach them when they are in school. If the parents can't handle taking care of their own children, even if it means one inconvenient day that they are out of school, then they have no business having a busload of kids. And yes, they probably DO send their kids to school when they are sick. Then, when the school calls them to pick up their sick child they either don't answer the phone or say they can't pick them up. And no, you won't be able to change my mind with any more blabber so just save it.
     
  38. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    BTW....

    This is why the libraries, parks and the shopping malls no longer allow unsupervised children under 13.

    Parents are responsible for the care of their children.
     
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  39. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Yes. Anytime a societal support job's employees disrupt the service, there are consequences. Often people are hurt by those consequences. You may not see the direct harm, but there is often harm for some.

    Strikes are intended to cause disruption. Disruption often causes a level of harm.
     
  40. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Not quite as much harm as doing nothing though.
     
  41. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Society has things like summer camp for child care and activities because parents now work. Parents worked because kids were in school for 9 months of the year. So, they felt it was a benefit to bring in more income. Some worked part time, others worked full time. If we did not have school, most likely our society wouldn't have as many dual income arrangements and one person would be staying home with the kids.

    I'm not sure why you started on the "camp counselors aren't teachers" rant, but the reality is that because we have mandatory k-12, society has made adaptions around that requirement. Striking upends the order of the system which is its intent.
     
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