Tossed Out by Student Teacher

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out Archives' started by LaLaMa, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    Jan 21, 2005

    went yesterday to sub 1/2 day afternoon resources classroom at a school, spoke w/classroom teacher, went over her list of students to work with & their assignments ... worked well w/1st student 1-1/2 hours before recess, went to get a drink of water at recess & came back to the room & the student teacher says "you can just go now" I say excuse me?! she says "you don't need to stay, you can go now" I say what!? she says "there's only a few kids this afternoon and I always do Friday Funday with them after recess, so you don't need to stay" ... I say but ... uhmmm ... she says you can go now, you don't need to stay ... I say but Mrs. _______ left a list ... she says "I always do Friday Funday with the students after recess, you don't need to stay, I can handle it" I say but it's not Friday ... she says "but you don't need to stay, you can just leave now, you can go home now"

    I went to the office & explained to the secretary ... she says we'll see about this
    she came back with the student teacher & both of them smiling like they'd won the Kentucky derby told me that I could go home, I didn't need to stay, I could leave now (pause) if I wanted to ... there wasn't enough to keep me busy, they thought I would just be bored ... I asked if there was another teacher I could work for ... that seemed to confuse them, but a bystanding teacher suggested I help out in the FLS (functional life skills=developmentally disabled) class as they always need help in there ... secretary & student teacher are going "uhm, I don't know, I don't think so, uhm" & "you can just go now, you don't need to stay, there's only ___ kids, so there won't be much for you to do, you can just leave now (pause) if you want to (smiling and nodding & backing me toward door)
    I called sub office who says that student teachers need to have certified person in room at all times ...
    I'm flummoxed!! ;-(
     
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  3. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2005

    I would have marched my butt into that room and parked it and watched if nothing else and got my pay for the day. Told her well since it is a fun day, I want to have some fun with the kids, too. It is good that the student teacher is a leader, but it wasn't her place to send you on your merry way. If nothing else, call the teacher you subbed for and explain the situation to her.

    Lori
     
  4. Bethany

    Bethany Rookie

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    Jan 21, 2005

    Wow! That is something that legally and professionally should have never happened! The administrator of the school must know about this incident and the student teacher ought to be asked to find an alternative assignment for the remainder of her student teaching experience. In other words, her supervising professor at her college should be made aware and the student should be asked to leave the school. Completely inappropriate and no to mention not following the guidelines with having a certified teacher with the student teacher...definitely not a district I would chose to work for again if I could help it!
     
  5. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2005

    There was a day, while I was student teaching, that the teachers in that district had a "sick out" the asst. principal said that I could just take over my master teacher's class that day. The principal, my master teacher, and my university supervisor all said NO under no circumstances was I to do that. In fact, our university supervisor didn't want us in the room with subs. On those days we went into another classroom for observations.
     
  6. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jan 21, 2005

    In my district a student teacher can not act as a sub- if the teacher is out a sub must be in the room. I would definitely call the school and let the principal know what happened as well as the teacher whose classroom it was. Secretaries should not be in charge of releasing subs, either! :eek:
     
  7. Ms Linda

    Ms Linda Rookie

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    Jan 21, 2005

    Schools do what they want when it comes to student teaching. I was paid to sub the day my teacher was out for a teacher training. I'm not saying that this was the right way for the school to handle this but at the time I didn't know that it was "wrong". :eek:

    As for kicking a you out of the room, the student teacher must have been off her rocker. I would have killed to have a day with extra help, even if it was a fun day. Try talking to the principal directly about this. (Just make sure to be polite and not burn bridges if you want to sub there again.) I wonder why the secretary thought she had the right to send you away? :confused:

    Linda
     
  8. AMK

    AMK Aficionado

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    Jan 21, 2005

    When I student taught in Rhode Island I was not allowed to sub until I finished my student teaching. Whenever my cooperating teacher needed a sub I would come in and do it . It was the only time I subbed and it was good b/c I knew all the kids and the routine.

    But what the girl did was just rude to you and unprofessional. Make sure someone knows what happened.
     
  9. cmeldrid

    cmeldrid Rookie

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    Jan 21, 2005

    I am currently student teaching and when my teacher is out, they have to have a sub in the room regardless if I am teaching all of the subjects. Even though I have insurance I am not certified until after I graduate. And the student teacher you came in contact with must not want to graduate. I would defintely contact the teacher as well as the principal of that school.
     
  10. Steph-ernie

    Steph-ernie Groupie

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    Jan 21, 2005

    In the district I am student teaching in, student teachers can only sub for their master teacher if they have filled out all the correct applications and paperwork at the district office. When my master teacher was out for the day to a conference, we tried to find out if I could sub, because I was teaching all the subjects by then, and my master teacher really wasn't in the room much anymore anyway. We were told no, and the sub came and sat in the back of the room the whole day watching. I did utilize her by sending her out with small groups during science time for an activity, but that was all she did all day. I never would have dreamed of sending her away myself. Even though I felt like I could have handled the class just fine, I understood that she had to be there legally, and I dealt with it!
     
  11. GlendaLL

    GlendaLL Aficionado

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    Jan 21, 2005

    I subbed for a number of years - and have never heard of anything like this! There were only a few times that I was in a classroom with a student teacher. But, it is a legal requirement for the school to have a certified teacher in the classroom.

    What if something had happened in the classroom - like a child having an accident/injury, a non-custodial parent picking up a child, or a child damaging school property? Would you be held legally responsible? With the way people get sued these days, I would not allow myself to be put in that position. That student teacher and secretary were way out of line! Let someone higher up know what happened. If it happens again, be firm and do the job that you were hired to do.
     
  12. clarnet73

    clarnet73 Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2005

    My situation here was similar to what czacza and other described... my cooperating teacher was out on a conference, and, although I was there, they still had a sub... I was able ot do the whole day, but it was a legality...

    When I was student teaching in England, the situation was a bit different... in the school I was in, unless the taecher was going to be out the whole day, they didn't hire a sub, they just sent the kids to different classrooms... my grade and another grade split the kids between the 2 other classes in the grade (so all of a sudden I have 40 kids, half of whom I don't even know!), the other grades sent a few to each classroom with independent work to do. A couple of mornings or afternoons when the teacher I was with had to be out, they *did* let me "sub," once was even during an observation by my mentor (another teacher in the school)... although it was good for my confidence (sorta!) and the other teachers OFTEN checked in to make sure everything was OK, I didn't particularly feel comfortable with the situation, but couldn't argue!
     
  13. turboteach

    turboteach Companion

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    Jan 21, 2005

    Like the others have mentioned this situation was legally wrong! They, in no way, should have "shoo'ed" you out...you were the certified one!! I'm sure administration would be interested to know about this one...contact the sub call-out person and discuss this with them.

    The first thing I thought of was....did the student teacher have something to hide? Maybe she/he was NERVOUS to teach/be in charge with another teacher present? I've seen this many times in my subbing journeys...student teachers often get quite flustered. I just remind them that it wasn't too long ago that I was a student teacher and I remember what it was like. I try to provide feedback (like their mentor teacher would) and help in the classroom as much as possible.

    I HAD A HORRIBLE experience with a sub while I was a student teacher...my mentor teacher was away (so LEGALLY they had to call a sub). Well, she sat on her sweet patooty the whole day and did sweet a$$ nothing (getting paid, while I taught the entire DAY!). She didn't move from the teacher's desk the whole day, reading a novel to be exact! THAT BURNED ME!! So remember, all you subs out there, make sure that you at least try to provide some assistance and feedback for that student teacher and the students in the class.

    Anyhoo, just wanted to insert my two cents worth. :D
     
  14. haydee55

    haydee55 Rookie

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    Jan 23, 2005

    Thats scarey! If I ever did that during my placement I would have definatley been in trouble by my supervisor!! Not to mention that it is ilegeal to not have a cooperating teacher in the room/building with a student teacher! I think if I was you I would have wanted to talk with the principal because a secretary has NO say in that type of situation! I have had a sub many times since I started my placement and I work with them just like I would my cooperating teacher! Thats bad I wouldn't evern have the guts to say something like that to someone even if I did want to teach on my own!
     
  15. Bethany

    Bethany Rookie

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    Jan 23, 2005

    I still can't believe that the secretary of all people thought she had some kind of say in when the subs are allowed to stay or go...wow! I wonder if the student teacher and the secretary knew each other, or if they were related or something...might explain something or another!
     
  16. Prissypants

    Prissypants Companion

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    Jan 24, 2005

    In the middle school where I worked, the secretaries ran the show. They decided everything. It drove the teachers nuts. But I can definately see how the secretary could get involved.

    As for the student teacher thing, I don't really understand why a student teacher can't be alone with their students, especially when so many districts allow subs in a classroom who haven't even graduated college. Still, a rule is a rule. What I think is upsetting is the fact that the student teacher sent the sub away for the remainder of the day! That takes a log of audacity, if you ask me. I would have never thought to do that, even the rules said that I could be there alone. Makes me wonder if she was up to something.
     
  17. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    My rule of not being in the room without a teacher came from my university due to liability issues, it wasn't from the school system.
     
  18. Margo

    Margo Devotee

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    In my school, the secretary IS in charge of subs so she would be the one to release any if need be. Different schools are run differently.
     
  19. Bethany

    Bethany Rookie

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    You are certainly right Margo, but I really don't think there is any school district that allows student teacher's to dismiss subs...not quite right if you ask me! Margo, in your school, does the secretary have the authority to dismiss the sub if there is a student teacher and no one else in the room? I am just wondering how your school's policy works. Just curious!
     
  20. TeachWildThings

    TeachWildThings Comrade

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    In the district I worked for you filled the position of who you were hired for. If they were there 3, 5 or 6 hours you remained there for that time. This was true for any sub, teacher, para, custodian, ect. If for some reason they didn't need you in your exact assignment, they HAD to find work at that campus for you to do because you were filling in for someone's regular hours. As a sub those hours were promised so the district could be liable for not giving you your hours. (some legal issue) I was told this (& it checked out) by none other than the school secratary. As far as student teacher take overs, only if they had a sub credential AND were an employee of the district. Again legality issues. I think any of us who sub or are embarking on their student teaching would be wise to check out both district & state regulations. Doesn't hurt to keep informed!
     
  21. deedee

    deedee Connoisseur

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    Oh my godness! As a student teacher I could never imagine having the gaull to tell a certified teacher to leave the room and go home!!! :eek: Yes a student teacher must have a certified teacher in the room at all times ! First I would tell the real teacher what happened and see what was really going on, then if that gets you no where talk to the principal and see what was going on! I think that was very rude and that student teacher is either hidding something or is just overzelous!
     
  22. litlmama

    litlmama Comrade

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    All the schools I have ever worked in there has to be a sub in the room with student teachers. All of our subs are college graduates, you can't be a sub if you're not. I don't know about that particular student teacher, but I would have stayed. Did you contact the teacher about the incident? Just hold your ground when you know you are right. Especially since there are always possible legal ramifications. Don't go back to that class until the student teacher is gone.
     
  23. Margo

    Margo Devotee

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    No, there must be a teacher in with the student teacher. I don't agree that the student teacher should have dismissed the sub. I was just supporting secretaries in that in some districts they ARE in charge of subs.
     
  24. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    actually only district within 50 mile radius ... ;-(
     
  25. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    Jan 26, 2005

     
  26. Miss Teacher

    Miss Teacher New Member

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    I am sorry to hear about your situation. I completed my student teaching last semester and it was not the best expierence. My co-op teacher left me alone completely since the second week of school! I would have loved if they sent in a substitute when she was not in the building. The extra hands are always nice to have!!!

    Sorry about your expierence. I would contact the school principal about that situation.

    Good-Luck!
     
  27. hollypop

    hollypop Rookie

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    Consider yourself lucky! I had a sub in my room for three days when I was at the end of my student teaching who could not understand that I was going to be in charge of the class. She was awful! She interuppted my lessons, yelled at the kids for doing things that they always do and are allowed to do, or that I had asked them to do, and every time I gave directions, she would add her own directions on to mine! I asked her to work with a group of kids doing a langauge arts activity and showed her how to do it. Then when she was suppossed to be doing the activity, I looked over and she was doing something completely different! I asked her what she was doing and she said she was giving them the background information they needed to do my activity, even though they were completely unrelated. I could go on and on about how horrible she was and all the things she did! I almost went completely out of my mind! What I would have given to have had a sub that sat in the back of the room and did absolutely nothing!
     
  28. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    my supervising teacher simply turned the class over to me most of the time, but when he was out of the building & there was a sub, I always discussed what/how things might go w/sub & sub always let me lead class while simply walking around keeping kiddos on task, never ever had a sub sit down in a class & read a book ... but your sub sounds obstructive!!

     
  29. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I agree that this situation was unproffesional. I was not allowed to do sub duties until my second placement, and then had to have a sub in the room. I hated having yet another person critique my teaching (remember I was really nervous), but understood why. I did have to sub by myself one day, due to an emergency. There were no subs available. What a great staff though. The teachers, secretary, and principle all kept checking on me. I still get nervous when college students come to watch me.
     
  30. snpalmer

    snpalmer Rookie

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    Gosh

    I am a newish teacher and when on my Prac's I would never have dared kick a relief teacher/ sub teacher out of the class. My goodness - What was this student teacher thinking.
     
  31. Wtknee1

    Wtknee1 New Member

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    Wow,I hope you let us all know what the outcome is to all of this, and I hope you recieved pay for the full day.She doesnt sound like a very good co-worker or role model. Just think if a Parent were to volunteer in her classroom if she became a lead Teacher. Something is wrong with her people and proff. skills. You would be doing her a favor to report this-maybe she would get some trainings that would benifit herself and others!
     
  32. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    Apr 12, 2005

    maybe that she was special & "God's Gift" to this particular classroom ... interesting that she waited til recess & regular teacher out of building ... rumor has it (unconfirmed) that she got called in to her student teaching program coordinator for a conference ... don't know ... she's still in that classroom ...
     
  33. Lovelabs

    Lovelabs Comrade

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    I have been a cooperating teacher for many years. In PA we are encouraged to leave the classroom during the last couple weeks of the student teaching experience. A sub is hired should the reg. teacher be out, but they can leave the classrom for chunks of time. By the end of the experience the student teacher is expected to be responsible for the whole day. I would say as long as you in close proximity, she would be fine. It sounds like she could some review on manners.
     
  34. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    I would utilize my subs. Ask them to go make copies, work with particular students. We have college students that come in all the time to gain experience. Why not put them to work doing something useful? I would hate to be in this situation. Would definatly bring it up to the principal, cooperating teacher, or cooperating school.
     
  35. mjmalino

    mjmalino New Member

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    I am currently finishing my student teaching. In California you can apply for a emergency permit which will allow you to sub. Because I qualify for, and have attained, this permit, I have been able to substitute for my master teacher. In fact, as we were discussing my placement with her, that was one of her first questions as she knew that she was going to be in training a couple days.
     
  36. Eki75

    Eki75 Rookie

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    Find out where this student teacher is earning her degree, call her advisor and explain the situation. What she did was not only rude, it was against the law. I wouldn't have been nice in that situation. lol.
     
  37. Lovelabs

    Lovelabs Comrade

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    I really have to disagree with the last post. With all due respect, while it may be against district policy, I doubt it is against the law. The situation obviously wasn't handled well, but it isn't a sub's place to report a student teacher to his/her supervisor!
     
  38. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    state law says a certified teacher/substitute teacher must be in the room with the student teacher ... oh, sure, they can run to the bathroom, lounge, office, library, whatever ... but they are to be in the room supervising the student teacher & observing her ...

    Actually here it seems it isn't the sub's place to do anything other than be a placeholder/babysitter ... not allowed to report battered children, not allowed to report abusive teachers, not allowed to report ego-maniacal student teachers, not allowed to teach, not allowed to speak w/students on a personal level (as in "gee, daphne, how did you get that black eye & all that bruising on your cheekbone?"), not allowed to send students to office ... we're just tokens ...
     
  39. Lovelabs

    Lovelabs Comrade

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    Are you telling me that in Wyoming the CT doesn't leave the student teacher alone? That's an actual state law? Wow, that certainly is different from Pa and NY! I've had many student teachers, and we're required to let them do their own thing for extended segments of time. We're in the building, but not always in the room. As for your other comments, I'm not sure where all that came from. I only voiced my oppinion and I stick with it. As a sub, I don't think it's your place to report a student teacher to the supervisor. That is why there are CTs. It's a chain of command thing. I hope the rest of that wasn't directed at me!
     
  40. LaLaMa

    LaLaMa Rookie

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    Jun 1, 2005

    no not directed at you, but it is law that student teachers are not to be left alone for extended periods of time & must have a sub if regular teacher is out of building or tied up in meetings or training ... & rest is what I've experienced ... I've tried reporting students who show up w/black eyes & bruises 1st thing in a.m. to school nurses & office personnel & suggesting that DFS or the police need to be called & told that subs aren't allowed to report ... I've tried reporting 2nd graders w/knives & other weopon-type items fighting & been told subs aren't allowed to report them ... not the sub's place ... the regular teacher will handle it when she gets back ... I've tried to speak to students about not hitting, not fighting, etc., & been told that's not my place ... the regular teacher will handle it when she comes back ... personal experience ... even been told by regular teachers to just ignore these kinds of things cause it's not worth your career to fill out the paperwork & go thru the investigations ...
     

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