Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Mathemagician, Aug 8, 2012.
Aug 10, 2012
...and now we are back to the correlation between fitness and intelligence.
When you say "better students" are you referring to academically?
Our kids get somewhere between 80 and 100 minutes of phys ed each week (depends on how our school day is organized) and 70 minutes of recess each day (30 minutes in the morning and 40 minutes during lunch hour). Of course, the kids who do go home for lunch, less than 20% of our students, may not have that 40 minutes.
I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes".
I have a former student who is skinny, skinny. I think at her heaviest she weighed 98 lbs. She came back to school after a doc appt one day and told me that the doc told her that she was 'skinny fat'. She ate like crap and he said that showed in her stomache even though it didn't show on the outside.
Yea, what Mrs C said. She's a hell of a secretary! hahahahahahahahahah
Actually both behavior-wise and academically, and general over mental well-being in dealing with the pressures of living on the inside. Not a great place to think you're an arm wrestling champ! Whoa, have I seen the biceps!
And the problem with that is.........................?
Let me try to explain.
A number of the educated professionals on this forum have said on numerous occasions that they struggle with weight. Some have said that they're working on it, and assorted people have had varying degrees of success in losing that weight.
Every single time someone on this thread attempts to tie weight into intelligence, that person insults those fine professionals. While you may consider them to be ignorant, I consider them to be friends. And you consistently insult them.
My weight isn't an issue for me, so let's assume I'm not ignorant. I am intelligent enough to recognize incredible rudeness and a lack of sensitivity when I see it, and it's all over this thread.
She's also a hell of a teacher, weight issues or not.
No "haha" necessary on this post.
Ah yes, I always forget how oversensitive today's America is. That's on me. I tend to forget that.
If it would make you feel any better, I'm medically just into the "obese" chart myself, and I was NOT making fun of anyone. I make fun of myself more than anyone else.
I have never, nor am I stupid enough, to believe it's always a 100% direct correlation, so no need to talk down to me. All I'm saying is that nutrition IS important, that the human body wasn't meant to be static, and there have been studies to suggest that people in good physical health tend to have a more healthy mind. Hell, I'm simply stating the obvious!
Fat people like me are not necessairly intelligent and skinny people are not instantly bright. And I do know that I was a MUCH better student when I was physically fit, into long-distance running as a youth and in my adulthood.
I fail to see where the insult is.
Things I've learned from this thread:
Fat = stupid
That's pretty much it.
(I think that there is the potential here for a very interesting and practical dialog. The problem is that any sort of dialog is impossible when people are bringing in ridiculous claims like how fatter people are dumber. I just can't be a part of this sort of thread, so I'm out. Have fun, y'all.)
There's a lot you're failing to see.
I've heard that the best defense is supposed to be a good offense. While your comments continue to be offensive, I'm pretty sure that it's not what the saying is supposed to imply.
I think Caesar has the right idea... let's let this one die a natural death.
I'm not American, nor are some of the other posters who have replied to this thread, and I am not obese and I'm still somewhat insulted. Therefore, perhaps it's not the over-sensitivity of America, but the under-sensitivity of certain posters.
I always tell my students that just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you should. And just because you don't MEAN something to be insulting doesn't mean it's not.
The condescension on this thread is appalling.
I'd like to see just exactly where I actually said overweight people are stupid, and vise-verse. I'm not exactly keen on people putting words to my posts that simply were not there and if they WERE there, it was a huge mistake on my part because I don't and do not think that. I'm simply thinking it's an interesting topic and evidently researchers think nutrition and activity impact learning think so too, or there wouldn't be research and books about it, right?
Oh yes American's have become over-sensitive. That's what the politically correct movement was all about.
I kind of stumbled into this thread just now and want to LAUGH just out of frustration (ETA: maybe I'm jumping the gun here... let me scan through the pages and see what was said....)
Who believes that?????
My husband's BMI indicates that he is overweight. He has started running, plays ultimate Frisbee, is on a paleo diet, etc. He is slowly but surely losing weight.
AND he has a BS in computer programming from a university and currently works for an oil drilling company.
So, apparently he's dumb, eh?
Can you people who believe in the correlation between fat=dumb do his job?
This is what I used to tell my middle schoolers last year!!! :thumb:
And I'm being accused of being on the wrong end of that. Maybe you can help others find where I said it. I didn't, but they say I did, so it must be there.
It's not about being an "athlete"! I swear, people need to have a bit thicker skin and realize general comments not being intended to you specifically. They take a comment, and take it to the extreme... as if it was said that you have to be some high-level athlete. Nor was it said that you are STUPID if you are overweight. All that was said is that there is a link between physical fitness and thought.
If I tell you that exercise gives me higher energy level (which it does), am I saying that if you don't exercise, you have no energy and are thus lazy?
Obviously not. But people here are so sensitive. MODS--please don't dispose of this thread. People need to learn how to discuss things without getting so easily offended. Where did anyone say you, your significant other, or anybody else is DUMB because they are overweight?
You agreed with John who pointed out that obese people must be ignorant.
The bolded parts should be enough....
I know the difference between ignorant and stupid...and I vote the comments regarding obese people being ignorant to be both.
Oh thank the Lord, not all hope is lost! I've been trimming some of the fat on my rump roast. :lol: 17 pounds gone so far!
I know this may offend a few people, but it is true.
I think obese people fall into one of four categories:
1) uninformed--they don't know about proper food choices and exercise
2) unconcerned--they know and don't care
3) don't have enough time to eat right or exercise
4) sick/disabled/genetically unfortunate
I feel like most people here are trying to paint it as though all obese people fall into category 4, and thus, we shouldn't discuss the matter because it is not nice. I think more people fall into 1, 2, or 3, and these are things that can be changed. I think everyone would agree that the obesity epidemic is a problem, but it seems as though most people here don't want to move the discussion beyond this to discuss the reasons for the epidemic or the solutions because they are afraid to offend anyone.
I'm riding with you John. How could we possibly "insult" people we don't even know? How'd all this start and how'd we end up being the "bully boys?"
You're reaching. Look, I'm too old to go second-guessing myself, but I'll repeat one more time, I didn't invent the studies I've read nor the experiences I've encountered. They are honestly held. If you need to take this personal or need John and I and Mathemagician out to be bullies, and to take this personal, have at it. How can someone who is clinically obese like myself possibly make fun of other people who are too large? You tell me.
Math - I'll ride with you too. It is an epidemic and it does impact our professions. Who are the kids who get mercilessly picked on at school? The "heavy" ones. Let's say their parents are obese - WE can make a difference. Hell it's almost like alcohol. Well, enough for now, but I agree. It impacts our profession.
I haven't posted much in this thread so I'm not taking it personal. You asked a question, I answered.
Saying I agreed with John didn't mean I agreed with THAT part of it, but I agree with the conversation and research being viable.
I do agree that obesity is a problem. The western diet is pretty bad. Way too much focus on meat, carbs, and dairy.
However, I THINK what got people's dander up is when intelligence came into play as a link to obesity.
Anyways, we do NEED to start with our kids. We NEED to introduce to them a more variety of food. We also need to stop using food AT ALL as rewards (for example, if you eat this broccoli you get a cookie. WRONG! Stop doing that! Or using candy in the classroom. We need to stop tying emotional behavior with food). We also need to stop making dinner table a battle ground. If they won't eat their meal, then leave it there. They'll come back and eat it when they are hungry.
AAAaaaand so on.
How kids eat when they are young and what type of foods they are introduced to really affects their eating behavior as adults.
However, back to intelligence. IS there a link between obesity and lower intelligence? Hmmm, well, I would like to see some of those studies that claim that. Have they been posted on here? I know quite a few overweight people. None of them are dumb. In fact, all of my acquaintances/friends are quite bright.
There certainly are (studies that indicate a link), but that's not the point to me anymore (as it relates to this thread). People who are arguing against the notion, can simply cite an individual(s) they may know (a smart fat guy, or a dumb skinny guy), and quickly dismiss it without giving it any thought. The sad point (to me) is that we have education professionals who push aside critical thought, for the sake of political correctness.
As it relates to the thread though (obesity), just think: Why would an all-encompassing condition like obesity NOT affect an organ like our brain? We readily can admit (accept) that obesity affects organs such as: heart, liver, arteries, even skin. Why would our brain be exempt? Why would obesity affect everything in our bodies, but not our brain (function)?
Okay but if you're going to talk obesity and intelligence then you also have to talk rates of obesity and lower socioeconomic students.
I seriously thought this thread was about improving our P.E. and health programs and assessing P.E. and Health teachers.
It was pretty cool how I gained a bunch of IQ points after I lost 150 lbs.
Me just glad me dont be morbidly obeast. that wood suck.
Listen, math, I am overweight but not ignorant. Not generally speaking or regarding why I carry the extra weight. I don't claim genetics. Ridiculously large boobs and awkwardly wide hips? Now those are family gifts I wish I could return to sender...but I could make choices to lose weight. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't focus on it. But I am, and I quote my doctor, "The picture of health!" and eat a diet free of a lot of the crap others enjoy on a regular basis.
I think it's laughable you think this can be introduced in a discussion and then try to move on with the original topic.
Thank you for answering my question.
I can't speak on what it's like on the inside... but personally speaking, for myself, I was NOT athletic in any way, shape, or form. I was quite the bookworm and "geek". Scrawny...the type of guy a beefcake would DEFINITELY target at the beach for sand-kicking practice.
That being said, I did pretty well academically and behaviorally.
Also, in my classes, I have students of all types... jock-ish, bookworms, you name them. (I would reckon we all do). I don't see the correlation between "athletic" necessarily meaning does better. In fact, at times, the "jocks" are quite competitive...and this can lead to behavior problems and if they're too stressed about "not being first"...they rush to take the test so they can turn it in first...making careless mistakes in the process.
Again, I can't speak of juvenile hall students or those that are incarcerated. Maybe there IS a connection...if so, that's wonderful! I'm happy to hear that physically active inmates are doing well academically.
I'm merely speaking on my personal experience (both in my life and in my classroom).
"If I lose weight, I'll lose my sense of humor!"
This is my excuse of remaining at the 150-160 lbs zone.
My PE teacher in High School was a big and fat white woman. I never
saw her do what she expected us to do. She was just there blowing her whistle and telling us what to do. I never wondered though why this big and fat woman was a PE teacher. She was good at getting us to do what was expected, and she knew her stuff.
More incentive to lose weight!
Aug 11, 2012
All I meant was that people who are reasonably active on the exercise side get rid of a lot of the clutter in their minds and circulate blood better through the organs - the brain being one of them. Assists in self-esteem - gives a sense of over well-being, which is good for the brain. It's not necessary to be a world class jock to be smart. This is something I've observed in my teaching and in my own life.
God would not have given us these great brains and bodies if they were not meant to be used on a consistent basis. I think we're encouraged by whatever factors to not use them anymore - either by force or choice. The obesity rate skyrockets. On the other hand, I graduated 3.5 as an undergrad NOT in good shape at the time because I worked full time mostly on a sit-on-the-a$$ job, then in class all day. Then, 8 years later in grad school, I could run 5 miles for fun and play basketball afterward and still carried a 3.5 while working full time. It is NOT necessary for academic accomplishment to be athletic. But I do know I felt better about myself and my overall outlook on life when I was constantly on the move and 30 pounds lighter. And I can honestly say I was more of a "learner" when in shape rather than in college riding a desk, where I was more of a "memorizer-test taker."
You don't have to be Michael Phelps to be a gym teacher. But isn't teaching as a whole all about being, among other things, a ROLE MODEL?
I still agree with John Lee - it merits discussion, whether this is the thread for it or not.
Well said Peachy!
Sarcasm is one to :lol: about and some people will actually think it's true.:lol:
I have to use your line on one of the teachers at work.
Separate names with a comma.