This is so sad

Discussion in 'General Education' started by minnie, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Am I correct in assessing that your point is that this some of us are taking too much responsibility for something that really shouldn't be our responsibility?

    I'm with you on this. I wager most of us are decent people who love kids. But teaching isn't the only career for people who care about kids. If I were primarily concerned with kids' well-being (not that I'm not, but I'm hoping I'm pointing out some differences here) I could have gone into social work. But no, I'm a teacher because I like kids AND I like academics.

    I won't try to make hard reality something it's not, but we teachers shouldn't have to worry about kids when when we're not with them.
     
  2. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Just because we are not with the children in person, doesn't mean that we don't see them. We can see them through Zoom, Google Meets, etc. Actually, this can even give better documentation at times. Through Zoom and Google Meets (with permission), classes can be recorded or a screen shot taken. Evidence of bruises or other abuse may show up.

    Also, virtual learning doesn't need to mean an end to counseling. Counselors still could meet in person with students or on Zoom. In person would be better and social distancing would be much easier with only 1 or 2 students with the counselor.

    A perfect solution? No, I realize it has flaws which include less direct private conversations with students. I get it. My point is something can be done, even if it isn't a lot.

    Also, over 50% of child abuse is not done at home. Teachers, other school staff personnel, coaches, other relatives, and older peers at school can be involved with child abuse. These might decrease as children don't have contact with these people.
     
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  3. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    It comes down to essential vs non-essential employees.

    Should police have to risk their lives because there are lawbreakers in the country? Maybe they can decide what types of calls to go on because some are riskier than others.
     
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  4. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I see your point, but @Ms.Holyoke 's point was that just because we are mandated reporters by virtue of being teachers does not mean it's our primary responsibility.

    I was not hired to be a mandated reporter. I was hired to teach. I wouldn't even say mandated reporter is one of my hired duties, but moreso pertains to the nature of the law.

    Society is worried about child abuse. Surely there's a better system during non-school times than the teachers.

    It's the police's primary job to enforce the law. As awful as it sounds, scoping out signs of abuse/neglect is not my primary job as a teacher.
     
  5. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    You are right. In districts that allow video of students, you will have a better chance. Not all districts allow that. Also, a parent who is abusing may not allow video especially if they know they can get away with it. They may also be controlling what the student can and cannot say because of proximity.

    Now that is interesting. Abuse goes down because kids can't be abused by teachers, school staff member, coaches, and other peers. That doesn't say much for our educational system. So, kids are safer when they aren't at school with their abusers?
     
  6. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I'll risk my life. I just don't want to take other people's lives. Teachers shouldn't go to school. This is not to protect ourselves, but to protect the largest number of people's lives right now. Spreading the virus (which statistics say that 10-17 year olds do as much or more than adults) is what can hospitalize and kill the most people. I don't want to go in during an unsafe situation and have children get the virus and pass it on to loved ones who could get seriously sick and die. Also the virus could be spread among campus where I could hospitalize or kill staff members. I didn't sign up for killing children's family members.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  7. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    No, kids are safer when they are NOT with their abusers. It isn't a secret that some teachers, staff, coaches, and people the child knows outside the family have been abusers. If a coach is abusing children and that child is forced to be at home away from the coach, yes the child is safer. It all depends on who is the abuser. I don't bash my favorite two underpaid professions (parenting and teachers). I do share the truth that the statistics that children have been abused at school and at home. Both are very sad.
     
  8. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I should have made my point better. Police are out there risking their lives and the lives of their families because they are constantly in a position to contract COVID. Should we have police do their jobs from desks at home where they won't be able to contract COVID and bring it home? I am comparing this to those students who can't learn from virtual learning.

    You can't police from behind a desk in many instances. Also, not all students can learn virtually. Should police be able to work from home so they don't contract COVID while out in public?
     
  9. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I just stated what is true also. It doesn't say much about our educational system if kids are being abused in school by teachers, staff, and coaches. It says we are letting them down.
     
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  10. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I am going to address this part of your response. I do think that there are some children who are hurt more than others by virtual learning. For example, special education students probably are greater hurt by a switch to virtual learning. I agree that there might be a safe method to bring these students back to school so they may learn. 3 special education students in a room can easily socially distance and the risk can be far lower than in a classroom of 25 to 30 students. These common sense approaches I am in favor of implementing on school campuses.
     
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  11. Ima Teacher

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    A couple of years ago our former governor said that teachers who went to the capitol to protest proposed changes in teacher retirement benefits were responsible for kids being sexually and physically abused at home instead of being safe at school.

    People lost their sh!t. (And he lost the election.)
     
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  12. CaliforniaRPCV

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    Six feet away... And wearing masks.
     
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  13. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Who identifies children who are homeschooled?
     
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  14. emad

    emad New Member

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    A good psychologist
     
  15. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    It is definitely sad for the kids but It's not my fault they are failing as parents. I really shouldn't be on the hook for that.
     
  16. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    You know the answer to that. That can be an issue had has led to children being abused for years since I don't know of a state that has "in-home-school" visits to check on the teaching of the students.
     
  17. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    If there’s no system in place to check up on homeschooled students, then perhaps that’s a gap that could be filled by social workers or some other state-based entity. That group could also be responsible for checking up on kids at home temporarily for distance learning, I suppose. I guess I feel like school can’t and shouldn’t be responsible for everything. It’s nice when we can cover something, but that needs to stop being the expectation. It’s not our scope of practice. We are neither trained nor funded for much of what is expected of us in terms of social services beyond academics.
     
  18. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I completely agree with this.
     
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  19. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with this. I'd wager the average teacher/school staffer isn't actively looking for signs of abuse/neglect--we might know a possibility when it pops up, but I don't know of any schools doing regular checks. Yet we're doing to send people into homeschooling homes to, what, dress the kids down? I get and appreciate the intent behind it, but I know a few homeschooling families who'd feel quite insulted to have that happening. In the same breath, I know of some abuse cases that were uncovered by mere community neighbors reporting in.

    So, with a good intent, how would you do these check-ins without it feeling like the social workers are actively looking for a problem?
     
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  20. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I don’t think it would need to be a serious inspection. I think simply having the expectation that, once a month or once every two months, someone may stop by to check in would be ok. Some would be uncomfortable and I completely understand that, but if it was simply “how are things going, do you need any family resources or homeschool resources” it could be alright. Maybe each county could have homeschool worker, or something of that sort.

    Some people would feel that the government was getting involved when it didn’t need to, but I also think of the cases where abused children are classified as “homeschooled” and no one ever sees them, checks up on them, or in general knows they exist, and I feel the pros could outweigh the cons. However, I agree it’s a very tricky line.
     
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  21. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I looked into this more for a few other countries and found that, in at least one state in Australia, homeschool families are required to meet with “Homeschool Moderators.” While it’s academic focused, they could also look out for abuse in the same way that teachers do.

    https://myhomeschool.com.au/homeschooling-in-western-australia/

    The Home Education Moderator Visit
    The home education moderator (approved person from the WA Department of Education who will come to your home) usually contacts you to make an appointment within three weeks but definitely before three months of your registration approval. This is usually done in your home but it can be at a mutually arranged place.

    Their role is to:

    • Assess your homeschooling plan and see that you are complying with the WA curriculum.
    • Make sure your child is making progress
    • Offer support and make suggestions.
    What Happens On The Visit?
    The Moderator will come and stay about 45 minutes. They will ask to see your plan and meet your child. They will not test your child. They will ask to see where your child takes their lessons.

    What you should show them:

    • Resources you have bought.
    • Your homeschool plans
    • How your lessons are organised.
    • Samples of work and evidence of learning.
    • If you have already completed some work show them how your are documenting their progress.
     
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  22. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    My point is that if abuse is missed because kids aren’t in school, then the solution should lie in whatever safety net exists for kids who don’t go to school. It seems that the US has no such safety net, which seems problematic. If there were such a safety net, we wouldn’t have to worry about kids who are normally at school falling through the cracks because they aren’t at school for the time being.

    My bigger point is that that safety net shouldn’t be school-based; it should be state-based. I didn’t specifically suggest home visits, but that could be one option. When people receive certain other services or support, there is often a check-in component, such as for WIC or when you are a foster parent. If the state wants to prioritize abuse and neglect, then it can come up with a program and guidelines that work with its system.
     
  23. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    It would be a constitutional violation to just send social workers to a home because a family chooses to home school. If the State Dept of Education wants to have districts send educators to meet with the home school educator to ensure what they are using and how they are using it is sufficient that could be acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  24. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Well, you didn't specifically say home visits for home schoolers, but you said this same group could be responsible for home visits during distance learning which implies that they would be doing home visits for home schoolers. At least that is how I read what you wrote.

    If there aren't home visits for homeschoolers, what will social workers be doing with these families?
     
  25. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Does this mean you want the government to do checks on anyone who has children in their home?
     
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  26. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    :yeahthat:
     
  27. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I do like this system.
     
  28. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I didn’t suggest home visits though...?

    Upon re-reading what I wrote, I think that there may be some confusion around this sentence: “That group could also be responsible for checking up on kids at home temporarily for distance learning,I suppose.” I didn’t intend to suggest that they could check up in homes. I meant to use “at home temporarily for distance learning” as more adjectival to describe kids. As in, the kids who are at home could be checked upon by social workers. Whatever format that check happens in, I don’t care. I don’t even necessarily care that these checks occur—that was really just a brainstorming exercise since I thought we were problem solving here.

    The feeling I’m getting is that people here think that it’s intrusive to check up on homeschooling families. That may be fair, but why is it not equally intrusive to check up on other families who are learning at home due to temporary conditions? Am I missing something?
     
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  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    No. I am saying that if we are looking for an entity or organization that specifically works to identify cases of abuse, school should not be that entity or organization.
     
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  30. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I don't think people think it is intrusive to have a homeschool visit if the visit is about schooling. Another poster posed how one country does homeschool setup checks. I wouldn't have issue with that if that is what they are doing. If they happen to see abuse then it can be reported. It certainly wouldn't catch everything, but I think it was how you phrased your sentences that made it sound that the purpose was for well checks rather than teaching.

    I know you are brainstorming, and I appreciate that. I just countered your brainstorm.

    I understand what you are saying, but making this happen in a way that doesn't infringe on people's rights is difficult which is why school is the safety net. The majority of kids attend a physical school. They become visible and over an extended period of time. Teachers can see changes in the student over the year.

    Also, I have always believed we need to return counselors to the school. I have never been on board with those cuts.
     
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  31. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Does that mean the state/district will be providing homeschooling families with resources? If so, what kind?
     
  32. TeacherNY

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    Don't schools have social workers? I'm assuming they are working from home so what are they actually doing with their time? The school psychologists? Anyone else that does NOT have a class full of kids to teach online? If a student sees a school social worker on a regular basis at school then those students could be checked on first then other students if the need arises.
     
  33. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    We do not have a school social worker or psychologist. We contract a psychologist out for SPED qualification testing only.
     
  34. otterpop

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    Honestly I have no idea. I’m not familiar with current homeschool laws and what’s available for resources, and I think it also varies by state.
     
  35. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    That'd be interesting. In my experience, homeschoolers are entirely responsible for finding their own resources.
     
  36. CaliforniaRPCV

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  37. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    Personally, I’d rather homeschool. But I’m glad that a virtual public option is available. I’ve known some kids that have had success with this. I’ve known some that haven’t. Totally depends on the student and parent.
     
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  38. TeacherNY

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    There's some type of homeschool network they can join but I really don't know anything about it and it could be different in every area. There are a lot of free resources out there that they can use but they probably have to buy a lot.
    I would assume they have to register their child somewhere with the state to be homeschooled and maybe those at the state ed level keep track of what's going on and make visits. If they are not enrolled in school districts then the districts wouldn't send their own people.
     

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