This is how bad it is in my state for elementary jobs...

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by Rainbowbird, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    63 positions listed for the ENTIRE state. This includes PreK btw.

    Some of them have been listed since May, and I know for a fact that some have been filled, because I applied for them and was told they hired someone else!

    This is like trying to win the Lotto.

    And all but two of them (the ones that i think are still unfilled) are an hour or more away, which puts them out of my range (just can't do that with my own family to consider).

    I keep remembering how I was hired late as a brand new teacher.

    Sigh. :(
     
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  3. Jem

    Jem Aficionado

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    Oh wow. What state?
     
  4. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    I will PM you.
     
  5. Rhesus

    Rhesus Comrade

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    There were about a dozen listings for my subject (a rather specific one). The ones within an hour of my home numbered seven. Of those seven, I had four interviews.
     
  6. RedStripey

    RedStripey Comrade

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    It's really funny because my professors were all like HAHA THERE'S GOING TO BE A TEACHER SHORTAGE SOON!! Which I saw right through but you know...:lol:

    I still have to at least try to get a job though. It's what I've been working towards my whole life and it's something I really want. But if I don't have a job by next year (in my state or elsewhere) I'm moving on.
     
  7. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Colleges and universities are in the business of instilling knowledge and making money. It's not their job to limit the supply of teachers.

    I guess with such limited options, many new teachers are going to have to move elsewhere to find jobs. I'm glad that I was able to do that, or I would never have gotten a job. My subject, which is quite specialized and uncommon, was simply not available anywhere in my home state or in any of the neighboring states. I would have had to wait 5-10 years, easily, to find an opening, and that was unreasonable.
     
  8. RedStripey

    RedStripey Comrade

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    My university is well known for their teacher preparation programs. They would lose a lot of money if they stopped people from entering them.
     
  9. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    They said they same thing when I was taking courses!!!

    I know a few kids who graduated HS this yr and said they were going to school for teaching...just said good luck.
     
  10. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    The school I graduated is known for teaching as well!!!
     
  11. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I think teacher prep programs need higher standards for entry. Anyone can get into the program here...but nursing, radiology, dental assistants, and many other programs are extremely limited and competitive. I don't think this should be done strictly because of position shortages, but it would allieviate a bit of the struggle anyway.

    We only had three applicants for a position this year. I've said it before, but I don't know anyone who didn't get a position immediately out of college.
     
  12. bison

    bison Habitué

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    My professors are honest about this. I wouldn't say the university is before you enroll, but they expect people to do their own research. No one talks about the teaching shortage and everyone knows it's bogus. I don't really expect to find a job after finishing my credential next year, but I love teaching, so here I am. I will apply, and if nothing works out, my plan is to go abroad to get some experience and have some adventures before trying again. I live in one of the worst areas for finding a teaching job. I really hope it works out, but I have a plan B and C in my mind.
     
  13. BumbleB

    BumbleB Habitué

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    I agree. Not just because it would eliminate competition, but because I can think of some people who went through my teacher prep program who just should not be teachers.

    There is one that I went to school with that subs in my building. She is friends with the students on Facebook and "likes" pictures of the boys with their shirts off. IMO, that type of behavior should have been noticed and weeded out earlier!
     
  14. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    No, they're not, but since part of a university's mission is to prepare students for careers, they usually do some kind of career counseling/interview prep etc. It would seem responsible to tell the truth about the fact that there are very few jobs out there. It's one thing if someone majors in a very specialized area, knowing full well they'll likely have to relocate. But elementary school....well, there is an elementary school in every city and town, but no one is retiring. And there's hundreds, if not thousands of applicants.

    It really begins to look irresponsible on the part of the universities to keep churning so many out, IMO.

    I agree with the PP who said that standards for teacher prep programs should be higher. I know that the field is weeded out by the fact that anyone getting less than an A in student teaching is unlikely to be considered for a job, but there are still too many glutting the market.
     
  15. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    I agree. I graduated with someone who just shouldn't have been there.
     
  16. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    In my opinion, the university is only responsible for 40% of your growth as a to-be teacher. The other 60% depends on what you make of it, how you grow, and how you achieve. You simply cannot place blame on a university when you do not get a job. They train you, yes, but it is your responsibility to 1) choose a good school/program, 2) develop your skills, and 3) market yourself.
     
  17. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Who said anything about blaming the university for not getting a job? That is not what my post was about, and I haven't heard anyone else say it, either.

    I did say it seems borderline irresponsible to keep churning out graduates--particularly in fields like elementary Ed--who will most likely not get jobs, at least not for years, without being honest about taking their tuition money.

    I graduated in 1989. Managed to find a job right off the bat and it was tough then. It's tougher now. I don't blame the universities, but one has to wonder why so many students are going into fields like elementary Ed. Are they unaware of the situation in the market? I have to wonder.
     
  18. bison

    bison Habitué

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    I just commented about this on the previous page. Please refer to that for a response. :) I think most people know what's going on, but I know I'd rather at least give it a try when I'm really passionate about teaching.
     
  19. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Yep! I agree with both sentiments! Colleges of Education are considered "cash cows." They graduate tons of elementary Ed majors. At least where I graduated, they told the elem. candidates that moving away might give them better chances of landing a job.

    Once universities get your tuition, that's it! They don't particularly care whether you get your degree or not! There is one caveat! They don't want you to default on your student loans! They would rather see you apply for deferment or forbearance! Anything but default!
     
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    If people in teacher prep programs aren't willing to do their due diligence about the job market, that's hardly the university's fault. There is plenty of information readily available to anyone who cares to look for it. Even a quick look at current job openings should be enough of an eye-opener for anyone in a teacher prep program. Take the time to look at that stuff and ask around. Nobody in college these days is guaranteed a job, plain and simple. My hoosband recently graduated with a degree that should be very marketable, but he's been struggling. That's not his university's fault. It's the market and current economic conditions. He knew what he would be getting into and he has already been gearing up for a long search process. It's just the way it goes. I'm glad that he's not blaming his university, which gave him an excellent education, for his current plight. He'd be too grumpy to endure for very long.
     
  21. isabunny

    isabunny Comrade

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    As far as colleges pumping out graduates, it is an interesting topic. Pumping out graduates for job markets that don't exist anymore is a problem. It seems like there could be some control where programs would be more difficult to enter when there is a huge surplus of workers, but no jobs. Of course humanities jobs are few and far between. Our schools are very, very slow to change here in the US.

    Programs should be updated in K-12, as well as college to reflect the job market. But we seem to keep teaching the same content. And students seem to take the same courses in high school & college. If you need three years of foreign language in HS, why not omit that requirement for college? If college was more about training for a profession and less about jumping through hoops, a college degree would mean a lot more!

    We should be focusing on computer applications, coding, math, personal finances, ect.... The good jobs of the future will be in computers, mathmatics, engineering, 3-D printing, health care, media, and other technology based fields. Jobs in english, history, art, archeology, sociology, psychology and other humanities will be very limited if non-existent. I believe universities turn out more psychology majors than anyother major, but there are not many psych related jobs right now.
     
  22. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    I see we've come to a fork in the road re: the purpose of college. I firmly believe the purpose of college is NOT to prepare for a specific profession.

    And as for focusing on all those STEM jobs... what about people who aren't interested in working in those fields? Do we say "too bad"?
     
  23. panjteacher

    panjteacher Rookie

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    Colleges I can understand.
    What really ticks me off was even 7 years ago when I was going through the alternate track to education program (easier way to earn a cert with a BA but without taking a traditional teaching education program) they told us all with a little bit of "grit" we would all find teaching work within a year or so. No one I knew who passed through the program found work for years and most had to go back for a traditional cert.
    Even then I was told, NJ was loaded to the gills with teachers already.
     
  24. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    I've been scouting jobs in Ohio (just out of curiosity) since I'm considering moving there when I'm free from my contract in 2 years and was amused that I couldn't find a single high school social studies position open this late in the game. Hopefully it's better at the beginning of hiring season.

    My district is the only one around here still hiring.
     
  25. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    HistoryVA, I have an SS friend. There were quite a few positions this year relatively speaking but it is still VERY competitive. If you don't care which part of OH, that makes it slightly better. Also many districts don't post their jobs on ODE. Some only post them on their district website.
     
  26. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    I know in my situation there was a lot of media attention paid to "the local teacher shortage". So many of this area's teachers were within just a few years of retirement, according to local media reports. And during the housing boom here, subdivisions were popping up all over the place, and most had an elementary school right smack in the middle of the development.

    They would interview the various superintendents of the local districts (remember, this state's largest districts are right here, local to me), and they would talk about the explosion in the number of students flooding all the elementary schools, and the number of retirements and the number of teachers who leave the profession in the first five years. Shoot, they would have job fairs, begging for teachers.

    The collapse of the economy slowed the rate of growth, but presumably, all those schools that had already been built and filled (and then filled some more) with students were still in need of teachers to replace those leaving and retiring.

    No matter how "called to education" I felt, I never would have thrown away so much time, effort and money on seeking a degree and a credential if I had known that there weren't enough jobs to go around. If at any time during the preparation to gain admission to the teacher education program, someone had told me that I was faced with probably years of rejection and perhaps never finding a job as a teacher, I would have taken that seriously and not done it. Instead, I believed all the newspaper articles and t.v. news interviews and thought I was following my heart AND making a good business decision.

    I remember how upset I was when the screener for a district hiring pool ranted at me about my university not doing older students like me any favors by never mentioning how tough the job market is for teachers and how even more impossible for "non-tradtional" graduates like me it is. But, you know what? That has been the most honest interaction I have had since starting this whole process a few years ago.
    Sheilah
     
  27. isabunny

    isabunny Comrade

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    It's all about reality. Most of us can't go to college just because we want to learn. I would go to college my whole life just for the fun of learning new things! I love college! However, it is way to unaffordable. I am stuck watching all the documentaries and Ted talks I can get my hands on.

    The reality is that it cost a ton of money to attend college. Many of us go to college and end up with loads of student debt. We need to train in college for a career so that we can pay for out debts, plus the costs of living a nice life. We can dream about becoming Indiana Jones, but most archeology majors probably won't end up in that field after college.

    As a society what do we do? Keep educating people for professions where there are not any jobs, or educate people for the future job market? As educators, we are in charge of teaching students the skills they need to become productive humans: not just for knowledge, but to use the knowledge.

    I received my teaching credential in 2006 and still don't have a teaching job. I love the field of education. That is why I am addicted to AtoZ. However, I wish I would have seen the future job market and spent my money training for nursing. I wouldn't love it as much as teaching, but at least I would have a career. New Grads nurses are having a hard time finding jobs, but usually have a job in under a year.
     
  28. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I was never led to believe there was a glut of teaching jobs available anywhere. Nor was I told as an undergrad that there was a big need for marketing majors. There are no guarantees, ever. Personally, I'd hate having some outside force (government/school boards, etc) deciding what college content areas should should pursue. Guidance, suggestions, forecasts, reality checks...heck yes. But not tracking or channeling...and I do think college students should do a bit of research into the job market outside of what their professors /college programs tell them...they are in a money making business churning out grads, not a job placement service.
     
  29. DressageLady

    DressageLady Comrade

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    I think there is a big difference between giving someone an honest assessment of what their over all prospects are and some outside force deciding what content areas they can pursue.

    Personally, I would have appreciated the honesty. I sure don't appreciate having been fed a line of happy crappy these last few years.
    Sheilah
     
  30. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Some thought there would be a shortage due to retiring baby boomer teachers (which is probably a smaller amount than predicted due to economy...people can't afford to retire) but many jobs that may have opened due to that expected exodus have been cut due to school funding decreases and potential layoffs of teachers due to state budget crises. It's happening in professions across the spectrum, not just education.
     
  31. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Really? Even for programs like teacher preparation, which are clearly designed to educate the student for a specific career?

    That point aside, as a teacher I LOVE to learn, and college is obviously a wonderful place to do just that, but who has the money these days to attend college just to learn for the fun of it?
     
  32. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Hmmm. I wasn't ever led to believe there would be a ton of teaching jobs, either. This was back in the late 80s. In fact, job markets weren't discussed at all, either way. I guess I was very lucky to get a job so soon after college, because as I recall I applied for about three openings locally, got interviews for two, and got a job.

    I agree totally with you that tracking and channeling is not appropriate, but yes, some guidance and reality checks....totally appropriate and VERY ethical.
     
  33. Rainbowbird

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    That just stinks.

     
  34. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    I am not criticizing anyone for doing it....I understand the compulsion to teach. When it's in you, it's in you. Common sense says that as a mature and experienced candidate, I won't necessarily find something in a market with so many new grads. I have enough experience and a master's degree to make me expensive. Should probably give up. But I totally get how you want to keep trying. Cause I do, too.

    Worst comes to worst, I can afford to be a long term sub, because I don't need the benefits. I just have to decide if that would satisfy me. I've done it for two years, and it's getting a little old.
     
  35. yellowdaisies

    yellowdaisies Fanatic

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    No one in my state is under any "teacher shortage" delusions. The job market here has been hideous for the last 7 years or so with year after year of widespread, devastating cuts and layoffs. We were hit much harder and much sooner than other states. My university didn't really have to say anything about the job market, because everyone already knew. I guess I'm lucky in a sense. I went in with both eyes WIDE open. My mom is a teacher who has been repeatedly pink slipped because she moved districts at the wrong time and lost all of her seniority. Luckily, her layoffs have always been rescinded, but there has still been a lot of uncertainty. I knew the risks, and I did it anyway. I was very fortunate to get hired, but I knew that wasn't a given.
     
  36. redtop

    redtop Companion

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    The professional society I belong to had about 500 full members when I was admitted in 1983; now the number is closer to 5000.

    The presdient of the society gave a speech, noting that some members felt there were too many actuaries chasing too few jobs and that maybe we should tighten up the admissions. He said no, as long as people are able to meet the educational requirements of what we consider a "fully qualified actuary" should be, we should admit them. We are a learned society, not a union or a trade guild.

    That speech was given in 1957.

    My point? Fears of a "glut" will be with us always. In practice, gluts happen mostly when technology changes and workers don't change with it. The number of "Telephone Repairmen" is, I suspect, a lot lower than in 1973. But the number of people selling telephones of one sort or another, including various types of internet-based phones and communicators, is much higher.
     

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