The way children speak to teachers is disgusting, do you agree?

Discussion in 'Third Grade' started by Missturner, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Oct 8, 2017

    I work with some tough kids, high school. I am actually appalled that an elementary teacher would even remotely consider the comment above. I'm not sure I would even condone it at high school. To each their own.
     
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  2. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    A kid in my 1997 seventh grade English class literally peed her pants - all over the desk, chair, and the dictionary that was sitting underneath her chair.

    Urinating is a biological necessity, and, no matter the age, it is disrespectful when someone in a position of authority tells someone else that they are not allowed to take care of the biological necessity in the appropriate, private location otherwise known as the bathroom or restroom.

    I'm sure the incident probably still haunts my classmate to this day, whereas having missed 3-5 minutes of class likely would have had no lasting impact on her or anyone else in the room.
     
  3. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Do any naysayers seriously think the law would back them up on creating bizarre bathroom rules?

    It is one thing to teach breaks as good times to use the bathroom. It is quite another to make such suggestions edicts.
     
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  4. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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  5. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I can't imagine the anxiety and shame that this young lady was left with. We watch commercials all the time where women are "shamed" and feel that their lives are compromised by bladder leakage. I can't imagine that an extra minute or two of instruction time is worth the lasting feelings if "I think I can hold it" becomes "I can't get to the bathroom in time." I know someone personally who has virtually no time between the "I need to go" and "I need to go NOW."
     
  6. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Oct 9, 2017

    One can get a UTI from not using the restroom when needed. A male teacher deciding whether or not a female needs to go and checking with the nurse frequently is disrespectful. Did you ever consider that student's parents mught not have wanted their child's health history shared?
    Seriously. How would the bathroom privilege withholders here react if it was your kid? Or your need to relieve yourself? Wow.
     
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  7. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    ,
     
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  8. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Parents have the right to not allow sharing of medical info with anyone but the nurse. It's a violation of HIPA if info is shared without consent so going to the nurse 'many times' was overkill.
     
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  9. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 11, 2017

    Five percent is low enough in and of itself to answer the question it immediately raises.

    Tough, impoverished school district, I imagine, given the readiness with which they resort to obscenity and threats, a typical cry for attention from their equally misguided and ill-fated peers. Shows a lot of class—just like the parents. Hard to teach in a place like this—which, one should remember, is entirely by design.

    Your outrage is justified. No young person should speak to an adult this way, ever. If an eight-year-old speaks to adults this way, well, they are in for a rough ride through life, aren't they? Odd how readily some defend and aggrandize antisocial behavior.

    God help these children and those who enable their antisocial behavior, ensuring their lack of preparedness for life outside the walls of grade school.

    Will the anti-labor lobby continue to stand up for these kids in the real world, when they invariably react the same way to an employer or police officer?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  10. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    It seems that some teachers applaud and condone the child's behavior and strongly believe that had you handled the matter in a more professional manner, you would not have had to hear such immature "eloquence" to begin with. Once again, I am reminded of my own observations across a wide range of schools both here and abroad - those in which one can actually hear a pin drop in the halls and classrooms are filled with obedient students who all use the restroom facilities only at designated times. Meanwhile, the endless debates over basic operational procedures at failing schools continue ad nauseam.
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Oct 31, 2017

    Exactly.
     
  12. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    What if the student should have an accident outside the designated bathroom time?

    I"m just saying there are plenty of awesome schools that don't have only-this-bathroom-time schedule. What's wrong with a basic operational schedule that allows a different bathroom policy?
     
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  13. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    In a permissive society, it is never wrong to allow for different policies. Multiply this liberal attitude 1,000-fold and the result is (almost) every school attempting miserably to reinvent the wheel, especially when it comes to student and teacher expectations. IMO, that helps to explain why so many teachers are still having to deal with issues related to disrespect, defiance, pencil sharpening, talking, homework, procedures . . . ad infinitum. It never seems to end, but is only getting worse. The bright side is, half the year is almost over!
     
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  14. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Oct 31, 2017

    You still didn't answer the question. What if a very young child desperately needs to use the restroom outside the usual time and has an accident?
     
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  15. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Oct 31, 2017

    Are you suggesting that every teacher in every school have exactly the same expectations?
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Oct 31, 2017

    I haven't read this whole thread, so my input may be irrelevant. Meh.

    At a previous school, admin told us to limit bathroom access to passing periods only, meaning we were not permitted to issue bathroom passes during class time at all for any reason. This was because there were many ongoing shenanigans in the hallways and bathrooms. Most students wouldn't press the issue when I asked them to wait until passing period.

    I remember one student who asked to use the bathroom and I asked her to wait about 20 minutes until class was over. She made no further remark, did not tell me it was an emergency or anything. The next day I was hauled into the assistant principal's office "explain myself" to the parent. I felt like I was completely hung out to dry and that admin didn't back up their own policy. It was unpleasant and uncomfortable, because of course I didn't have a good reason for not allowing bathroom access--other than that it was an admin directive. The AP acted all shocked because this was a "female" who "may" be having "female issues". Listen, dude. I'm a rule-follower at school for the most part, and I'll do what my boss tells me to do unless I have some strong moral objection. At no point was it made clear to me or any other teacher that the no-bathroom rule applied to boys only. This student, with whom I had a good rapport, didn't indicate to me that the bathroom issue was pressing in any way, so I let it go, in line with the directives I had been given per admin. After that, I basically adopted a screw-it attitude and let anyone go to the bathroom whenever they wanted. Not my problem. Admin can deal with hallway shenanigans themselves, since they were unwilling to back me up on a policy of theirs that I attempted to enforce.

    What I learned, aside from the fact that I couldn't trust my admin at the time, was that students even with whom we have a good rapport may not always be willing or able to tell us about their private needs. Perhaps they are shy or embarrassed, or maybe they think that we should just know when it's an emergency rather than something smaller and less urgent. In any case, it's not really a kid's job to defend his or her bodily needs to me, you know? Furthermore, it's not the job of the student, the parent, or the nurse to notify me about a student's menstrual cycle.

    I do think that some limits are fair, especially when it comes to safety. No more than one student at a time out of the room, that's fair to me. Waiting for another student to return shouldn't take more than a few minutes at most, which seems reasonable even when a kid really needs to go. I need to know where everyone is at all times in case there's a big emergency like a lockdown or fire, and it's easier for me having all but one student under my direct care and supervision.
     
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  17. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Oct 31, 2017

    I feel like you're missing the point of consequences. Rude language doesn't equate to bathroom access, especially not in the mind of a child. If you want to address the rude language, address the rude language. Don't decide to turn it into a bathroom issue. If another student had spoken to you rudely about, say, a math problem, would you have denied them bathroom access? Of course not, because the two things are unrelated.

    So I saw a lot of comments about how other people's students wouldn't speak like that. I get it. For the most part, I'd say the same. For me, though, I work as a specialist and interact with many hundreds of students, not just the ones I know well and consider "my" kids. Every so often I encounter some unruly teenager who thinks he's being all big and bad by acting like a complete tool around me. He doesn't know me, and he knows that I don't know him, so he thinks that he can 1) act like some big shot in front of his peers and 2) get away with it. He can't, and he'll figure it out right quick when I display my power, the same power that every teacher has (although some don't know it and others don't know how to use it with compassion and fairness). I remind him through my words, my tone, my body language, and my actions that I am the adult around here, but I never degrade him, humiliate him, deny him his basic human rights, or back him into a corner from which there is no escape. My job is to teach kids to survive and thrive in society, not to shame them for the involuntary things their bodies do.
     
  18. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Oct 31, 2017

    The child who threatened to "piss" on the floor was merely baiting Missturner, as was the little boy who told her to write the date and title on his paper for him. Unfortunately, some people never outgrow these behaviors.

    Missturner is absolutely justified in being offended. If a child had said the same to me, my response would have been less polite than hers. I am not one to enable antisocial behavior, and the language described is antisocial. I've lost count of the number of children I've seen die or go to prison because the adults in their lived failed to live up to their responsibility to shape disciplined, honorable, and respectful human beings, because it was simply too hard to do, or because of some misguided notions of rights and freedoms.
     
  19. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Nov 1, 2017

    You don't have to like the way a student speaks to you. You can and likely should address improper or profane language. My contention is that you should not address it by withholding access to the bathroom. That's not an appropriate consequence. It's very likely also a violation of basic human rights.
     
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  20. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    This. This is very well-said.

    I don't think anyone is high-fiving the little girl for her language. We're just saying being a bathroom Nazi and using the bathroom access as punishment is very weird.
     
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  21. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    Wow. What an interesting read.

    I'm switching from 7th grade (4 years in it) to 3rd this upcoming school year. I have previously taught 4th.

    For 7th graders, you cannot have "unrestricted" bathroom access. My first year in 7th grade, I allowed one child out to the restroom at a time for bathroom. It became like a conga line, to the point where the principal told the 7th grade teachers to come up with a way to stop the constant bathroom flow (flow ;), sorry couldn't help myself). So, we gave each kid 10 passes per 9 weeks to be used during class time in any of their four core classes. The only restriction for use in class was that it could not be used during direct instruction (group work, independent work, projects, warm ups, etc. were okay---which accounts for about 70% of the class time). Passes not used were entered into a drawing for prizes. It's amazing how suddenly the need to pee in class dropped by about 95%. I suppose there is one person who reads this who is going to ask "What is they used them all up?" That only happened a few times. What I did then, was pull the kid out in the hall. I told the student, I'm going to do you a favor, gave the kid a legitimate errand to run, and winked at them and said "don't let it happen again." It didn't happen again. For students with documented medical issues, they were exempt, and someone who was going to throw up or poop themselves, I wrote them a note to the nurse and told them to use the bathroom along the way.

    For elementary kids, however, I don't think such measures are necessary. In my experience with 8/9 year olds, they don't really have the cognitive ability to manipulate the teacher for the whole "let me pretend I have to pee so I can get out of class" thing. I might be wrong, though.

    As for this particular situation, I just can't imagine having a student speak to me that way. I have always been told 7th grade is the "trenches" as far as behavior/back talk, and with the 400 or so 7th graders I have taught, NONE have ever spoken to me that way. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been disrespected by a 13 year old.

    I think you might want to re-evaluate the atmosphere you create with this new group of students you teach. Have your rules and expectations, but be compassionate as well. For the lower grades, if you somehow have 8 year olds who abuse the bathroom, why not think of a way around that rewards the kids for valuing your class time?
     
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  22. ChildWhisperer

    ChildWhisperer Groupie

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    Jul 2, 2018

    You'd be surprised. I've had preschoolers do this during naptime just so they can get up from their cots. The first couple times, we take them to the bathroom, where they would stand around and not go. So we stop letting them go during naptime, especially since we go right before they lay down. Never had accidents from kids who claimed they had to go!
    There's always a couple kids every year do this.
     
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  23. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    My two-year-old recently got a documented medical issue and apparently many 504s for her issue DO include unrestricted bathroom use (which does fit).

    However, if she is as big a stinker in 7th grade as she is now, I totally see her taking advantage of that...
     
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  24. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    So, the subject of when to allow students to go to the potty can be an ongoing issue for many teachers from preschool through high school. Do you think this is a problem for teachers worldwide?
     
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  25. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    Dear OP,
    Yes, we as a people are raising children who do not use civility in their language, as well as in their tone.
    For me, I don't have students who speak to me disrespectfully, but if I had encountered your students as you described, I may have elected to separate the disrespect from the actual behavior. Student one doesn't want to write his name and date. He/she is also disrespectful to you. What may have happened if you had instead said softly, "You need to check your tone and your words. I'll continue with the rest of the class and check back on you. I feel certain you will have written the required information by then." You disarm them with a soft answer, you show that it is not a battle royale item, and you give them a chance to get it together. With the young child, you've received a large amount of advice. However, the request to go to the restroom is not a wrong request. Possibly you need a better policy under the guidance of your school's overall policy. What do your co-teachers do at your school. As to the crude language, you could invite her to remain after class for a minute and help her to consider some alternative statements that are more acceptable.
    Sometimes, when we let things get very big, we miss the chance to show grace, kindness, civility and forgiveness. Not everyone has parents that model those things. Not everyone has a home where manners are held in high regard. While not in your curriculum per se, you have the opportunity to model those things to someone who may well be helping me in the waning years of my life in an assisted living facility as I wear diapers for having ruined my bladder as a teacher. I'd love to know that they learned kindness from you. :) My future self thanks you now.
     
  26. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    I really like the last post about modeling kindness. I am quite confident that the reason I have taught 400 7th graders and experienced disrespect only as high as I can count with one hand (while the same kids outright disrespected the teacher across the hall) is because of the rapport/relationships I build with my students. The statement that should govern your interactions with your students is "diffuse and disarm,"---in other words don't escalate the problem and remain calm, kind, and in control of your emotions (and tongue). In general, would you agree, that it is REALLY hard to be hateful and rude to someone who clearly and consistently cares about you, is being kind to you, and is looking out for your best interests? The answer is yes, and it works with the kids we teach as well.
     
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  27. Been There

    Been There Habitué

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    Interesting how posts dealing with disgusting student behavior are noticeably devoid of the term "kiddos" - just an observation. :rolleyes:
     
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  28. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Too right you are. They’re anything but.
     
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  29. Teacher234

    Teacher234 Cohort

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    Sep 2, 2018

    have seen the bathroom policy argument repeatedly on this website. would like to share mine. When a student needs to use the bathroom, they are told to ask (or gesture) to the teacher who is not busy. Depending on the student, my aide and myself may or may not take them to the bathroom (it depends on if the student can go by themselves)
     

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