Discussion in 'Third Grade' started by Missturner, Oct 7, 2017.
Oct 7, 2017
They know my rules, they should go so they don't have to cross their legs.
they are 8 year olds! Surely they can be allowed the odd bending of the rules.
I have a feeling that if you don't change the way you think then your students will be bending a lot of the "be respectful to teacher" rule
Try living with an eight year old you've raised to be kind, respectful, etc. and still be challenged rudely here and there. That's just normal even with delightful kids. What you're required to do is model a mature response and to reteach the expectation of respectful communication. "..she could wet herself for all I care." is an alarming viewpoint for an educator. I hope you really do care.
Most children (and many adults) just don't have a filter. If it pops into their head, it comes out of their mouth. As adults, we need to model respectful behaviour and we also need to, respectfully, let know students when they are being disrespectful and provide them with an alternative--"Rebekkah, you may go to the bathroom if it's an emergency, but I need to speak with you when you get back about your disrespectful response to me." Explain why the words she used could be interpreted as being disrespectful and give her alternatives, "Please, Miss, I really have to go!"
In all of our relationships with others, we can expect back the same amount of respect that we give.
Missturner, I think you are offended by the word piss, but I have not met the 8 year old who could tell me they needed to go urinate. Would you have felt any better if she used the word pee? I doubt it, because this is so much more about you seeing yourself as the ultimate authority figure in the room. We all have rules, but if they are set in stone, they are edicts, not thoughtful realizations that life can be unpredictable and unexpected. Children don't wear watches, so in the fun of recess, there is nothing for them to monitor their time so that they can all march off to the bathroom before the bell rings. Maybe you could join them at recess and have a signal that it is NOW time to stop play and go to the restroom. At least you would be able to truthfully say that you tried to help them understand that it is hard to monitor their time, but you are willing to help them.
The child that told you to write the date and title - on the board, on his paper? Kind of matters. If on the board, I could actually see where he might feel that is your job. 8 year old children don't tend to be very tall, or have great handwriting, so maybe it is better for the class if you actually do it. If, on the other hand, this was on an assignment, you simply take off points when you grade the work. When I say take off points, I mean reasonable points commiserate with the importance of the date and title as compared with the rest of what is on the page.
Honestly, you come across as a dictator, primarily because the ability to modify your own rules seem to be on your whim - if she had asked nicer, you would have said yes. I hope that is just poorly written and not indicative of how you really run your room or feel about children. For what it is worth, I don't believe that every individual can accurately gauge their own need to use the facilities. I mean adults and children. They aren't being disrespectful or lazy - their bodies may not work like yours or mine. I would hope that you can fine tune your edicts to turn them into rules that make more sense to everyone involved.
Haven't read all these.
First story, yeah, that's definitely out of line.
The pee story? It's an 8-year-old. I bet she really had to go and kids aren't always tactful.
I never understood the whole virtue of waiting to use the bathroom. Most adults... we allow them to use the bathroom if they hint they need to leave.
Most adults don't hold it for petty reasons. Heck, I rarely hold it. I ask my TA to watch them for 2 minutes if a break is long in coming.
Besides, trying to set a world record for bladder strain is unhealthy. For adults. Let alone small children.
Unless a kid is a chronic bathroom partier, my (also somewhat flexible) policy of one boy and one girl out at a time) is how my classroom rolls. Sometimes I may signal them to ask me again in a minute. Sometimes they do, sometimes their little faces crinkle up in desperation and I figure I am going to be repeating myself to another kid anyway.
Most teachers complain about not being able to leave class to use the bathroom when they need to. Pretty sure we even had a recent thread about this. Too bad the student in question couldn't get a student from the next room to "step in" for her. I don't question my students' need to use the bathroom until a pattern of abuse has emerged, and even then, I check with the nurse to make sure that I'm not missing anything I should know about.
And childhood disrespect? Most of the time they're just lack the experience of tact.
One of my good friends since childhood told the teacher to f-off in the 6th grade.
Oh my, he must be destined for prison.
Today h's married with 6 children, coaches soccer, and volunteers in the community.
We did, didn't we.
I suddenly feel humbled gratitude for my work situation.
Even so, if the madness of teaching weren't a factor, would we really be seeing how long we could hold our bladders?
I would not enjoy being in the OP's classroom.
This whole thread reminds me a little too much of this:
What does this even mean?
And students deserve more support than the OP seems to be indicating.
Wasn't there a thread almost just like this a few weeks ago? I'm having some serious deja vu here...
Oct 8, 2017
Be consistent with enforcement of the rules and routinely reiterate classroom procedures and expectations. I teach at the high school level and so I have to remind students on occasion of what I expect of them.
On day one, model the rules and there should be no more than 5-7 rules!!! Students can’t remember if there are much more than that.
One of mine is no projectiles. Don’t tell students they “can’t throw things” because they will circumvent that by kicking objects around. Students try to get around the rules any way they can.
Another is no cuss words or inflammatory language. Since my students are teenagers I allow them to say *appropriate* substitutions instead. For example, for a while the students kept saying, “Deez nuts.” I got tired of writing students up and so I had them practice saying, “Deez nosotros.” This Spanish word replacement went over well with them and they found it humorous. Also, deez nosotros is nonsensical and has no meaning.
Students have to come to class prepared, otherwise they are marked tardy because they have to go then return to their lockers to retrieve their supplies. After a few detentions due to excessive tardies, the repeat offenders shaped up.
These are three of my 5-7 rules. You don’t need more than that.
Hope that helps.
In August. Thread about not liking hallway line behavior and denying kids' bathroom rights.
If she had walked out and then explained she was bursting afterwards, I would have preferred that rather than I'll piss on your floor.
As a sub, I would deny some middle school students bathroom breaks. They would use it as time to play on their phone and wander the halls.
I had a girl walk into class on her phone. I said, "Please put the phone away - you know the school policy." He continued to use it, saying, "I'm almost done. This is important."
I began to introduce what we were doing that day and she was still on the phone. I got stern and said, "Put it away or I call security."
There was no asking politely for phones with some students. Snotty girls would shove them down the front of their pants and say, "What phone?" If you replied, "The one you just put in your pants." They responded, "You are nasty, looking at that part of my body. I'm gonna get you fired for being a pervert."
So I would always involve security with some individuals.
She put the phone down with a rolling of eyes and an OMG. 30 secs later, "Can I go the the bathroom?"
I responded, "No, not now, when I'm done talking about what we are doing today."
She said, "It's a girl thing, if you know what I mean. If I don't go then it will be your fault if I make a mess."
So I let her go. Big smile and phone left the classroom. A few other students said, "Man, Mr. teacher dude, you're dumb. You know all she's gonna do is use her phone."
True, but in tough schools you pick your battles and get back up when you do.
Speaking of respect..
A different middle school. I had a girl come up to my desk, interrupt others, and loudly ask, "Can I get a ruler?!?" I calmly replied, "Yes, if you ask nicely and say PLEASE."
Her response, "I ain't gonna BEG you for a ruler! You GOTTA give me one because it's a school supply!"
Please = begging? I guess, for some people.
I never had kids in elem or HS say "your just a sub". Middle - they said it with their actions.
I wish I had called her bluff and handed her the wastebasket. You will be cleaning it up, I like that.
LOL extra credit. We can't even give extra credit for things actually related to our subject area, I can't imagine if we tried awarding extra points for that.
I do have the kids who I think abuse the bathroom (they always go just to go hang out with friends from other classes), but I never argue with them about it. I just sigh and say "yesh, yesh....".
I know this is a trick area, but there's a lot of truth about putting the learning back on the student. If you miss the lesson and fail the test because you were playing in the bathroom, so be it.
I disagree. The first page and even beyond of this thread was all pretty polite criticism. It wasn't until the OP became unnecessarily defensive that the stakes had to be raised.
Based upon your posts in this thread, you seem unyielding, coercive, and unkind.
For frequent offenders who abuse their bathroom privilege, I email parents and say the following, “Your child has been going to the bathroom every day at the same time. I am wondering if they have a medical problem because I am concerned for their wellbeing.” This does two things: 1) It alerts the parents to the missed instruction time, which is a lot, and 2) it embarrasses the student. I’ve had mortified students let me know that they will start coming to class on time and “wait to go.” However, we both know they didn’t have to go.
If someone consistently doesn't say something in a nice enough way for you, you can block them and you won't see their posts unless someone quotes them. It may help you out a bit since you seem to be offended often.
Another strategy along these lines...I always check homework the second the bell rings. I have a number of students who like to go to the bathroom at the beginning of class, and they still haven't figured out that if they're going to go, they need to leave out their homework for me to check. I just enter 0s online and put a comment (our online system allows this) saying "In bathroom during check" so their parents can see. Of course, they can still show it to me for credit afterwards, but I'm not willing to chase them down and ask for it because they were going potty during the check.
I very rarely have issues with students speaking to me that way. When I do, they don't typically try it more than once.
In my district you'd be in the supe's office having to defend your highly questionable actions.
Having taught for over 30 years, I learned to just take a stand and remind students of the need for them to use the restroom during recess and lunch. After 2-3 days at the beginning of the year, it was no longer an issue - this was at a school with everyone receiving government assistance.
The fact that so many people have responded to this thread shows how passionate some teachers are about advocating for students' rights. IMHO, it's not a matter of respect, biological necessity, or comparing children with adults. This was never an issue when I was in grade school and according to my inquiries, this is a non-issue in classrooms in many other countries as well. Instead, this is a reflection of just how liberal/permissive American classrooms have become. I would encourage everyone to take a look at the college forum (go back to grade level forums) to learn how our contemporary practices are making classroom management impossible in higher education - the postings will remind you of your own classrooms!
In my area you'd probably find yourself on the news.
What drama is in my classroom?
A kid needs to go to the bathroom. He goes. 2 minutes later, he's back. The classroom is not disrupted. My teaching is not disrupted. His learning is not disrupted.
If I have this huge banner of potty issues, how is that less disruptive than letting a kid go to the bathroom?
I would like to point out that you are talking high school teenagers and OP is talking about 8 year olds. I'm not sure that what you choose to do with your age group is actually appropriate for lower elementary school. I fear that "I wish I had called her bluff and handed her the wastebasket. You will be cleaning it up, I like that" is less than an ideal response. I am pretty sure that response to a second or third grader is highly likely to have a negative impact on OP's job status.