The latest thing to come down the pike.

Discussion in 'General Education' started by swansong1, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Our state DOE (using the same part of their anatomy that Sarge referred to in another thread) has decided that in the near future all self contained special ed classes will be abolished and those students placed in the gen ed classes and required to do grade level material. SPED teachers who don't have gen ed certification will be out of a job. So, we have spent countless years trying to meet the needs of children who never will be able to perform at grade level and now these precious students are going to be thrown away because someone at the DOE says this is the way to accomplish NCLB and to prove that all students in this state are proficient. Their theory, I guess, is that if the SPED classes don't exist, that means there are no students working below grade level.
    All I can say is that in my 36 years working with children, this is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever seen come down the pike. I'm glad I am retiring soon!
     
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  3. 2ndTimeAround

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    Great. As a general ed teacher I think it is as stupid as you do. The students are now going to be placed with regular ed teachers who do not have the training, time or resources to give them what they need. Yet the teacher will be expected to meet those needs. Not only will she fail the Sp. Ed. student, she will fail her regular ed students since her time will be pulled away from them.
     
  4. Jem

    Jem Aficionado

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    As a teacher who 'only' has 10 kids, but half of them un-assessed spec ed students, I can't imagine. I'm absolutely dying right now without an aide. Will they be pushing spec ed teachers in? We gen ed teachers are NOT qualified for this!!!
     
  5. Proud2BATeacher

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    OMG!! We're going through the same thing, but not only are they going to be placing special ed. students into regular ed., they want to get rid of special ed. coding and IPPs.:dizzy:
     
  6. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    Same thing is happening in Tennessee. 100% inclusion.



    However, they've already backed off of some of it. Reg Ed kids have to take Algebra II and 1 higher math for a diploma. SPED can stop at geometry for a diploma.
     
  7. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I think what they will do is use the SPED teacher as a resource teacher but with the numbers of students we have we will probably have maybe 1/2 hour per day with each student. Not much help there.
     
  8. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Special ed coding is already leaving for next year. Are IPPs the same thing as IEP's? If so, haven't heard what's happening to them yet
     
  9. Proud2BATeacher

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    Yes, IPPs are the same as IEPs. So, where is your special ed. funding going? Are schools all being given the same amount of money to help "fund" their special needs students? If that is the case over here, I know we will have many schools that teachers will refuse to teach in due to the high number of special needs "regular" ed students in their class they presently have. Some regular ed. teachers in certain areas of the city have over 15 students with IEPs in their class already.
     
  10. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Good questions that I haven't heard the answers to. I'm hoping that things will be delayed one additional year because then I would already be retired and not have to worry about it. If they put this plan into action for next school year, I will quit. I find this so morally repugnant that I can't be part of it.
     
  11. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    So, are they going to put the severe/profound ones in the gen class, too? The ones that can't talk, can't walk, can't see, tube-fed, etc. in reg. classes? The ones that vocalize out whenever, cry at the top of their lungs because they aren't able to let you know what is wrong in the gen. class?

    Geeeeeeeee!
     
  12. schoolteacher

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    Wow, thanks for sharing that. Now I don't feel so badly about my situation.

    I have 7 students with IEP's in my class of 30 students. I am supposed to have support from the resource teacher, who is scheduled to be in my room for 90 minutes a day, and then pull students out for 45 minutes. However, that rarely happens, so for most days, I am on my own. Two of the students are emotionally disturbed, one is autistic, and the rest are more than 2 years behind the other students.

    I can't meet all of their needs. Something has to give, and unfortunately, it's the special ed students whose needs fall by the wayside.

    Sometimes I feel guilty about this. At other times, I tell myself not to stress about it. I can only do the best that I can. And that's what I try to do each day.
     
  13. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    I've got a class of 21 right now with 12 IEPs and 5 or 6 others who probably should have IEPs. This is my 3rd year teaching and the 3rd year I've had a class like this.


    I've got a SPED assistant in the class with me, but he can't do algebra and I've had to ask him to stop trying to help the kids because he so often tells them something wrong on the more complex problems.


    He's pretty much my discipline manager and I'm trying to circulate the room helping those who don't get it from the board (which is most of them.) My past students have hit the state's "predicted scores", but it's really not working and we don't have the resources to get the class sizes down to where they need to be for these students.

    Not to speak of the fact that these are the kids who need to be in the classroom the most, but they have a LOT more absences and spend a LOT more time in ISS than any of my other classes.

    This is also the class that year after year won't make up work and never comes to see me in the morning before school. (I have 5 to 10 students in my room before school on most days, but it's extremely rare for one of them to be from my inclusion class.)
     
  14. kickchick2000

    kickchick2000 Rookie

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    Dealing with the same thing here. I actually just had a meeting on this very same topic this morning with our OCS teachers. We have to figure out how on earth these kids are going to take Biology next semester. Biology requires labs that use sharp glass, flames, and chemicals. If there are OCS kids in a regular class ALL labs will have to be scrapped due to safety issues.
     
  15. misteacher

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    Our school has put SPED kids into gen. ed. classrooms and they call it "inclusion". The SPED teachers can't get to all of the classrooms to meet the allotted minutes on the IEP, yet no one is doing any thing about it. The gen. ed. teachers are upset, but no one is listening. The original plan was to put the GATE kids into these rooms to be "leaders" for the SPED students. The gen. ed. teachers were also told they would have smaller class sizes, but that hasn't happened yet. The kids are the ones who are really suffering and no one is advocating for their needs!
     
  16. silverspoon65

    silverspoon65 Enthusiast

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    That should be illegal. I think schools need to be more actively moving towards inclusion, but I think we all know there are kids in our schools that need to be in a self-contained classroom. Some that IS the LRE for a kid.
     
  17. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    It sounds like our state is just following the path that has been laid by many of the other states. It's a shame what this country is doing to our children...
     
  18. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    :yeahthat:
     
  19. Proud2BATeacher

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    Hey, I'm in Canada. We're just following your lead:dizzy:

    Right now we group 5 or more special ed. students in regular ed classes and provide the teacher with one assistant.

    Right now I'm teaching special ed. and all of my students have severe behaviors and are cognitively delayed. I have 2 behavior assistants (one of them is useless) who are "not" to help with learning and on Monday, a student from a 'living skills' class was placed in my class b/c my class has a time out room. He came with no extra support, needs 1-on-1 and is used to having a school day where academics are taught for about 1 hr each day. He threw up all over himself yesterday and if I didn't notice, I'm sure he would have continued on his way in the line up (while continuing to throw up). I'm suffering with the 8 students I have right now and can't imagine having another 14 regular ed. students to worry about.
     
  20. SunnyReader

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    I teach sped self contained. I can not believe what I am reading. I have 10 students and ALL of them would not be able to grow in an inclusion class. 1/3 of them are so smart and would be great academically, but they will have a tantrum on the floor during an entire lesson. One will hit other students, one does not speak and the others are 1-3 years behind academicallly.

    With over 20 students in a general ed class, these students will fall through the cracks. It is unfair to ask them to grow as a learner when you are setting them up for failure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  21. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    My class is similar to yours this year. I have 14 students and a variety of "labels". I have one or two students that could sit in a regular ed class and not be a severe behavior problem. They couldn't do the work, but they would sit quietly and blend into the wallpaper. I have several students who are 5-6 years below grade level. One is in 5th grade and can now recognize most of the alphabet but cannot say the majority of the sounds.
    How are these gen ed teachers supposed to adequately teach such a variety of students without appropriate help?
     
  22. MATgrad

    MATgrad Groupie

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    ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MINDS?? I teach middle school self-contained. I have students who can not write their names. A student that sexually grabs others. They are 6-7 grade levels behind their peers. A few years ago someone thought that it would be great for some of them to be in an inclusion reading class. It's not. Just about every single day someone is removed for spitting, cursing, hitting. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Well now two years later, someone has JUST finally realized that it's a bad idea but do to the paperwork required for a more restrictive environment we are stuck.

    I think it's all about the money though. Just think how much they will save....
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  23. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Unfortunately, in the long range we, the tax payers, will foot the bill for the jails to hold these disruptive students who did not receive interventions when it would have done them some good. We will pay for welfare for the adults who could have received vocational training, but, instead, sat in overcrowded classrooms with teachers who weren't equipped to handle the student load. And we will pay to bury these children who did not have the mental capacity to recognize when some criminal set them up to take the fall for a botched robbery or killing.
    BUT...the government will have saved some money and will claim that our children have received a top notch education.
     
  24. CindyBlue

    CindyBlue Cohort

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    And don't forget, we will also have to pay for the education that the REGULAR ed kids didn't have the opportunity to get because the classroom had too many disruptive kids and kids who need so much more individual time than classtime allows...
     
  25. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    In truth we won't. We can't afford to pay for what we've got going now and many social programs are beyond saving. Social security foremost among them.

    The future is quite bleak and the Federal credit cards are close to being maxed out. The pattern of the past 40 years of nearly constant deficit spending is finally coming to a head.
     
  26. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

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    The lightbulb came on the other day. Do we not get government money for students labeled special ed? So if we use RTI and make it difficult to have a student in special ed, then the government saves money.

    I already had the AYP-special ed subgroups scam figured out. The more you "hide" a special needs student in the regular classroom by not having him labeled special ed, then the more chance you have of not having a large enough population in a subgroup--thus you have a better chance of making AYP. I figured that was a county-wide and school-wide dodge.

    But lowering the bill for special ed would work for the government as well.

    In my school, it's almost all inclusion. If the special ed teacher can't make it to the regular ed classroom due to conflicting schedules, the IEP is amended to fewer hours or the student is "tracked".... and never seen by the special ed teacher.

    Suddenly, I'm supposed to be an expert on teaching students with disabilities? I didn't get a degree in that. I took the one mandated class about special ed in college. I haven't got a clue how to teach a dyslexic child to write so that it can be read.
     
  27. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    Nov 11, 2010

    I have a hard time imagining that such a plan would even be legal. Regardless of what any state does, the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act still stand.
     
  28. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    All it would take is a parent refusing to have their child taken out of the self-contained class, to argue that it would not be the appropriate LRE and the threaten to sue if they did such.
     
  29. Proud2BATeacher

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    I would think that the majority of the self-contained classes would be dismantled, so regular ed. will end up being the LRE.
     
  30. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Not if the parents argue that their needs aren't being served in the gen ed class.
     
  31. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    My training on this subject was that you guys have it backwards.


    IDEA's big driver is "least restrictive environment" among a ton of other things. We are required to take them out of the self contained classroom setting by law. We are also required to provide them all sorts of modifications and accommodations so they can function in the "least restrictive environment."

    The regular ed kid has no rights to compete with the requirements of IDEA and has no legal grounds to complain that he's being held back by inclusion.



    We need a regular ed version of IDEA in my opinion!!!!!!!!

    We're investing all of our resources the group that cares the least about graduating while holding back the performance of our top end students. Then we scratch our heads and wonder why other countries are producing far better STEM students than we are.
     
  32. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    I would never go as far as making a blanket statement that students with special needs care the least about graduating...maybe b/c I am a special ed. teacher. With support the majority of my students would be able to graduate (may take them a year or two longer).
     
  33. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    You are correct and that was definitely a profound overstatement on my part.

    I have several SPED who really DO care and really DO put forth effort.


    This said, we're spending a TON of our limited resources on that last 10% who don't care so we can meet that 90+% graduation rate that has a 100% goal regardless of reality.

    We're spending so much time chasing the 10% who don't care that the other 90% aren't achieving what they could if we weren't so pre-occupied.
     
  34. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    The least restrictive environment must also be the place where the child can best access the curriculum. For some students, this is not the general ed classroom. The point of IDEA is not to eliminated more restrictive settings, it's to maintain the availability of a continuum of settings that includes the general ed classroom). I have a few students who truly need curriculum that is adapted and scaffolded beyond what would be possible in a general ed classroom. It's very sad to me when they get thrown into general ed classes with little or no help. They are set up for failure by a system that seems to be run by those who don't actually care about students.
     
  35. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    Again, I am in 100% agreement.
     
  36. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    Nov 11, 2010

    May ask what state you're in???
     
  37. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I'm assuming you are asking me. I'm in Florida. One additional point I have just found out is that our superintendent has told his staff to hold on a little while because apparently some districts in the state were unaware of these changes. I think we will be safe for next year because it's getting really late in the school year to plan for such extensive changes. As far as LRE, my class is currently in the best placement for LRE. Putting them in gen ed would definitely hinder their development.
     
  38. Sshintaku

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    We had a LOT of special day classes and things like that at my school last year, but now with the big push for inclusion, there are a lot of SPED kids in Gen Ed classes this year. I have a test prep class who are all either ELL, really low level, and now SPED. I'm doing the best I can, but my SPED kids really do need that extra attention and I'm pulling my hair out trying to give it to them, while still meeting the needs of the rest of my *very needy* class.

    I definitely think that an all inclusive system is only going to hurt the kids, both SPED and Gen Ed.
     
  39. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

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    I agree with Muttling....perhaps her frustration got a bit in front of her typing censor ideas....but in general....I agree.

    In the early childhood area here the "Early HeadStart" sort of a class that helps 0-3 year olds with large developmental issues has for years been told that they need to be at 100% inclusion. That all the children need to continue to be served in their homes or care facility without adding extra staff and without adding extra hours. So they used to have a "classroom" and a team of experts like OT/PT and SLP on site and now the teacher is to drive around from home to home and assist the child. I am unclear as to if the experts also drive around.....I have never heard of a ISP that included them.

    In my own school I had to threaten to sue before I could get a 504 plan for my middle son, and my oldest son who is, to date, without compromising issues did quietly blend into the wall paper while the school focused one everyone else.

    I love teaching and I love children, I came to this thread because in my state we are making sweeping changes to the ECE level system and I was feeling like it was a conspiracy.....now I am wondering if Muttling is speaking for all areas.............

    I do also agree that if the students parents refused to try to be served in a reg ed class that would hold up the plan....however, like I said I had to hire a lawyer before I could get a 504 meeting and I wasn't even trying for an IEP meeting. I am not sure all parents would fight through the muck?
     
  40. Lindsay.Lou

    Lindsay.Lou Companion

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    Nov 18, 2010

    It's funny to "listen" to this conversation.

    My school is 100% inclusion and has been for over 10 years. I'm not saying I'm the biggest fan, I just can't even imagine it any other way. I've never worked in a school with self contained classrooms. It'll NEVER happen at my school, they boast about their 100% inclusion. I have a few students on IEPs in every single one of my classes. If there are more than that, a SPED assistant will be in the room (hopefully).

    And to answer a previous poster, yes this includes the students who are extremely physically disabled (sometimes totally non-communicating).

    (I live in Mass.)
     
  41. scholarteacher

    scholarteacher Connoisseur

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    That is totally absurd! Yes, there are some things such as music that SPED kids may be able to do, and yes, they can function and be proficient in some things, but not on the level of their mainstream peers! This too, shall pass, but how many children--and teachers--will suffer in the meantime? And that includes Gen Pop kids who will suffer because the teacher's time will be taken from teaching them!
     

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