The Getting-a-Chair-Hurled-at-Me Club
- Thread starter Backroads
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Leaborb192
Enthusiast
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Backroads
Aficionado
2nd grade, but it was the one of the several bigger chairs I keep in the classroom.
Backroads
Aficionado
There is a small part of me amused at the idea of this kid trying to knock over a desk in a rage.
Leaborb192
Enthusiast
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Leaborb192
Enthusiast
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Backroads
Aficionado
Right?
Again, I'm perfectly fine, but wow. Throwing a chair at the teacher. Wow, kid.
futuremathsprof
Phenom
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’m lucky I’m already on Break. I love it and return on the 4th of January.
Leaborb192
Enthusiast
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Leaborb192
Enthusiast
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Hokiegrad1993
Comrade
I am so sorry! I thought my group of kiddos were bad with the mocking and not listening. It is not a good club to be in 
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vickilyn
Multitudinous
OP, so sorry that you experienced this. I kind of accept that this is a potential reality in my job, but I feel so bad for teachers who have no reason to expect this as a part of their every day experience. My heart goes out to you, but I know that you are quite capable to handle this and move on. 
chairs and even students thrown at you? I hope you guys realize how foreign this all sounds to teachers who don't teach in the states.
I would normally assume that something like this would be considered a national concern, but.... maybe it's just a much of a muchness for American teachers.
I do want you guys to understand that this is NOT normal, and that you guys really need to figure out the reason(s) why this is happening.
Or you can just join a club and think it's not just you and your students...
Honestly, I think it's you.
I would normally assume that something like this would be considered a national concern, but.... maybe it's just a much of a muchness for American teachers.
I do want you guys to understand that this is NOT normal, and that you guys really need to figure out the reason(s) why this is happening.
Or you can just join a club and think it's not just you and your students...
Honestly, I think it's you.
Wait! Hold the presses! Yes, I believe you, but I'm really having a difficult time realizing a little 7-year-old kid throwing a chair at a teacher. (And I'm glad to hear you're OK)! Wow! What's next? 7-year-old bank robbers?
I have noticed a trend, lately, where people tend to have short fuses. And kids need to learn to pro-act rather than react, too. I might have the student replay the situation but come up with better alternatives for his actions and even rehearse those actions. Something I've done when role playing in the classroom, I've taken the remote control from the video/DVD player and pressed pause, rewind, and play to enhance the role playing a bit. But such violent reactions from a student could seriously injure someone and will cause much trauma for the student.
I have noticed a trend, lately, where people tend to have short fuses. And kids need to learn to pro-act rather than react, too. I might have the student replay the situation but come up with better alternatives for his actions and even rehearse those actions. Something I've done when role playing in the classroom, I've taken the remote control from the video/DVD player and pressed pause, rewind, and play to enhance the role playing a bit. But such violent reactions from a student could seriously injure someone and will cause much trauma for the student.
swansong1
Virtuoso
Since you admit that you have never had the experience of dealing with an out-of-control student, I don't find that you have the right to say that the teacher has caused the problem.
Special education teachers deal with many students who have brain dysfunctions that cause them to act in bizarre ways. We deal with children who should be medicated to help with behavior, and are not. We deal with children who are over medicated, children with severe behavior disorders related to their home environment, or lack there of; children who have been abused and neglected, which leads to behavior problems, etc.
We also deal with children who choose to misbehave simply because it makes them feel strong and important, in their eyes.
So, before anyone lays the label on a teacher that they are the reason for the behavior, come walk in our shoes for a while and see how you would handle things.
MrsC
Multitudinous
Glad you're okay.
Violence in the classroom, particularly directed at teachers and aides, has become a serious concern here in Ontario. Our federation is lobbying the government to increase funding so that our students who act out aggressively are provided with the supports (academic, behavioural, and mental health) that they require.
Violence in the classroom, particularly directed at teachers and aides, has become a serious concern here in Ontario. Our federation is lobbying the government to increase funding so that our students who act out aggressively are provided with the supports (academic, behavioural, and mental health) that they require.
cupcakequeen
Comrade
This says it plain and simple, but I'll add to it. As a special education teacher in an area where the general climate is to keep kids with disabilities, behavior problems, and just general conduct issues in the general education classroom as much as possible, I often deal with students (with and without disabilities) who do not process/problem solve/think things through very well but still often find themselves in situations they just don't know how to cope with. Is their response appropriate? Not at all. Tolerated? Nope. Does it keep happening sometimes, in spite of the best efforts of teachers to prevent it? Oh, yes.
Don't tell a teacher they are the reason a student on the autism spectrum flipped out when his schedule was different, even after multiple discussions about said schedule change, and he flipped a desk and threw a chair. Don't tell a teacher they are the reason a student with a background of domestic abuse thinks yelling and throwing things is an appropriate response to anger. Don't tell a teacher they are the reason a student diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder tries to choke a student who tattled on him.
I was absolutely not the reason for any of these behaviors. You can be certain I and entire teams of people worked with all of these kids to try and keep it from happening again, though. I'm luckier than many to have the resources to help these kids that I do. A lack of support, resources, training, help, etc. is not a teacher's fault. We do the best we can with what we have.
Backroads
Aficionado
This is one of those kiddos whose shoes I would not want to be in. Home life seems to be just fine... except for the fact both parents have mental illnesses that seemed to have been passed onto him. I mean, the parents are perfectly functional, but we then have a second grader who is not an adult, who has not yet had years and years to learn to manage his issues, and who only just barely is starting to see a professional.
Backroads
Aficionado
Thanks for this post!
During and immediately after, I thought I had handled it pretty well. I had remained calm, spoke clearly to him--plus I was immediately rescued by another teacher who was walking by at that moment.
But later that night, I found myself second-guessing myself. Should I have done this or this or this differently all that day? And, of course, the dreaded "If I were a good teacher all my students would be magically cured of all their mental/emotional/social/family issues!" (Yes, I seriously thought something like that for a moment before realizing it was a stupid thought.)
@Belch, you need to understand the difference between our countries. Your country does a heck of a lot more student segregation than ours. We can't just cast a student with a mental disorder out onto the street.
Caesar753
Multitudinous
Backroads
Aficionado
Also understand that when a student is violent, they do not just get to throw a huge violent fit and remain in the classroom/immediately return to the classroom. We don't cower in fear and let these students walk all over us. IEPs/504s generally have plans in order to prevent/decrease the liklihood of events (unfortunately, this student has yet to get a 504). But... stuff happens. This student was removed from my classroom immediately and spent the rest of the afternoon in the de-escalation room.
gr3teacher
Phenom
My first day of teaching, as a substitute in a 7th grade English class, about 10 minutes after the first class started, I had a desk thrown at me. 9 years later, nothing comparable has happened.
This runs counter to what I know of your zero tolerance policies which result in either suspensions of 5 days or more, or being transferred to a specialty school, and in extreme cases, expulsions for the remainder of the year if a firearm is brought to school.
In other words, a zero tolerance policy requires segregating violent students from the student body. Whether that means throwing a student out onto the street, or transferring that student to a school that specializes in violent students, I know that it is a responsibility of the faculty to maintain a safe educational environment.
That responsibility requires segregating violent students.
I've never heard of a student throwing a chair before, but I do know that verbal threats result in that student being segregated. What this usually results in is that they become the Principal's responsibility to educate. They are placed in a special classroom and taught by the principal himself. As soon as they arrive at school, they are required to report directly to the principal's office until he deems them fit to resume classes with the other students.
That's how we handle violent students because we are responsible for maintaining a safe learning environment, as are American teachers.
Backroads
Aficionado
How in the world are we supposed to know the extent of their violent nature until the proverbial chair is thrown?
There are certainly warning signs, but once the thrown chair is no longer proverbial, it's no longer a question of predicting their violent nature. Zero tolerance doesn't require predicting when a student will become violent. It means you have zero tolerance for when they do.
What really gets me about this is that I suspect that by the time a teacher is attacked by a student, there are probably a few students who have already been attacked by this student. Those students will be cowering in fear, and for good reason because they know that the worst thing that will happen to this bully is that he will be put in a "de-escalation room" for the rest of the afternoon, and then be back at school the next day.
It's not teachers being attacked I worry about. A chair thrown at me would hurt, but I'm an adult male. I worry about students who have to deal with the fear of being attacked every single time they come to school.
I read a paper earlier that said in 2009, 31% of high school students in America were involved in at least one fight in a single year. Multiply that by 3 years and being able to predict what will happen becomes a lot less hypothetical.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275010130_Weapons_in_Schools_and_Zero-Tolerance_Policies
2ndTimeAround
Phenom
31%? I call BS on that figure. I've worked at four different high schools and there was no where near that number of students involved in fights. And one of the schools is a rough school.
I suspect that there is some liberal tweaking of statistics there. Where maybe out of 1000 students in a high school there were 310 incidents involving physical contact. Which still seems incredibly high. Incredibly doubtful. But that the 310 incidents involved a small number of students. Those students were simply getting into fights over and over. I have right at 200 students on my rosters right now. Not a single one of them have been in a fight at school this year.
Of course, the high number might also include altercations outside of school. Tussles on the neighborhood basketball court. Getting physical with parents. Domestic abuse with girlfriends. Fighting over the box of Cherrios with a sibling.
I suspect that there is some liberal tweaking of statistics there. Where maybe out of 1000 students in a high school there were 310 incidents involving physical contact. Which still seems incredibly high. Incredibly doubtful. But that the 310 incidents involved a small number of students. Those students were simply getting into fights over and over. I have right at 200 students on my rosters right now. Not a single one of them have been in a fight at school this year.
Of course, the high number might also include altercations outside of school. Tussles on the neighborhood basketball court. Getting physical with parents. Domestic abuse with girlfriends. Fighting over the box of Cherrios with a sibling.
Caesar753
Multitudinous
Yeah, no. Based on this post of yours, I am pretty comfortable suggesting that you don't actually know much about the policies in American schools. If you did, you'd know that policies vary widely among states, districts, and schools. You'd further know that it's next to impossible to "throw a student out onto the street", even in the most egregious situations. Finally, you'd know that "faculty" as in "teaching staff" doesn't carry the burden of responsibility when it comes to issuing consequences for violent behavior. Those decisions almost always rest solely in the hands of site and district-level administrators. My own administration has expelled a handful of students for ongoing and extreme violence, but the district has kicked those students right back to our school without explanation.
I appreciate how you handle these situations in your country. It sounds like a good plan, to an extent. Unfortunately, that's generally not how things work in the US.
I did link to the paper where I got my information, and it was written by four professors in American universities, so I assume they know something about the subject. It details many accounts of students who were expelled or suspended based on what I would consider to be fairly innocuous displays of violence, such as an elementary school student who was suspended after pointing a chicken mcnugget at a cafeteria monitor and said "bang bang".
Are there differences in how schools or school districts handle violent students? I'm sure there are, but those differences do not abrogate the responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for students. They merely reflect different methods in order to attain the same result.
I understand that American teachers have far less control over how to deal with violence than they would like, but that still does not absolve them of that basic responsibility, which I would have previously assumed you would agree we all share.
Hence my previous comment of "I think it's you" that seems to have irked a few members. Might I suggest that if you do not feel a responsibility to provide a safe environment for your students, preferring instead to place that responsibility on site and district level administrators who are obviously not doing a very good job, then we are talking about a systemic failure that beggars belief.
Caesar753
Multitudinous
You’re implying that American teachers are ineffective because we rely on admin to do administrative tasks like expulsion procedures? How exactly would you propose I go about removing a student from my class? I’m honestly interested in the specific tactics you would suggest.
I feel like this is akin to suggesting that I should strap on my SWAT gear and go busting in to that domestic violence situation across town. The police, man, we don’t need to rely on them and their extensive training to conduct law enforcement activities. If we want to keep our neighborhoods safe, we should definitely wear our Kevlar and sidearms and gather up all the flash-bangs and night vision glasses we can find and storm into a place where we have no legal right to be and do things we have no training to do, because that would obviously be super effective as well as totes safe.
I feel like this is akin to suggesting that I should strap on my SWAT gear and go busting in to that domestic violence situation across town. The police, man, we don’t need to rely on them and their extensive training to conduct law enforcement activities. If we want to keep our neighborhoods safe, we should definitely wear our Kevlar and sidearms and gather up all the flash-bangs and night vision glasses we can find and storm into a place where we have no legal right to be and do things we have no training to do, because that would obviously be super effective as well as totes safe.
Your question reminds me of a friend who drives a truck, and was offered a job to teach at an elementary school. He asked "Can I beat the students?". When he was told that he can't, he turned down the job.
How would I personally handle a violent student who refuses to leave the classroom? I would slowly escalate from standing between the student and the class while telling him to leave my classroom, all up to putting him in a full nelson or a bear hug and dragging him down to the office where I would tell the staff to call the police.
I would also expect other teachers hearing the commotion to come to my aid.
All theoretical, of course, because the furthest I've had to go is to inform a student that if they can't stop talking, then they can talk outside in the hallway. That's always been enough to get even the worst chatterbox to finally finally finally be quiet.
Your example of kevlar and sidearms and flash bangs suggests that you would consider something like that necessary in certain situations. Maybe it would, because I've heard some real horror stories of what happens in other countries. You do what you have to because at the end of the day, people should be able to expect that schools are places where students can learn without feeling like they are in physical danger. We take their money with promises to educate their children, so that's our job.
You can talk about not being legally allowed to mount a machine gun on your desk, and not being trained to fire it effectively enough to reduce collateral damage to an acceptable level until the cows come home, but we still get back to the basic fundamental responsibility of providing a save learning environment for our students.
Caesar753
Multitudinous
I can’t be a good and effective teacher if I’m in prison. But you do you.
If being a good and effective teacher in your country is illegal, then you are merely expanding what I wrote previously concerning a systemic failure that beggars belief.
vickilyn
Multitudinous
If comparing countries systems of education, might I suggest that you find someone from your country to engage in when bashing the American education system? We are bound by laws and regulations, which we have covered in this and previous threads, but you continue to taunt and demean the teachers who have had this experience. Since you don't have to deal with our laws and regulations, perhaps you could simply say this is foreign to you and leave the discussion without offending the OP or other teachers familiar with our laws and regulations.
I don't really appreciate being baited.
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In 6th grade we had a new teacher from Great Britain replace our teacher from South Carolina. We walked all over the SC teacher. Day one, the "bad boy" in class started his misbehaving and back talking. The British teacher told him something like, "Sit down and shut your mouth or I will throw you out the window!"
Something in his tone and look was REAL. We never messed with him again. This was the 70's. We did not tell on him, think our parents would get him fired, or even think we had a right to sue him. In fact, we learned to respect him and were fascinated with his stories of his world travels.
Something in his tone and look was REAL. We never messed with him again. This was the 70's. We did not tell on him, think our parents would get him fired, or even think we had a right to sue him. In fact, we learned to respect him and were fascinated with his stories of his world travels.
Backroads
Aficionado
I still don't understand why I am being berated for having a student who threw a chair at me. It wasn't my fault. He threw a chair, I had someone better trained at handling violent students deal with the situation and remove him from the classroom. Immediately.
I was hardly pandering to the kid and walking on egg shells.
I was hardly pandering to the kid and walking on egg shells.
2ndTimeAround
Phenom
Don't let one poster get you down. You did nothing wrong and should feel free to share any frustrations here.
Peregrin5
Maven
Don't sweat it AT ALL. Even the best teachers have stuff like this happen from time to time. Sometimes a kid just has one of those days. A teacher across the hall from me had a student throw a desk into a wall (where it got stuck) all with zero interaction between her and the student or the student and any other student. He was sitting there quietly one moment since the beginning of class and in the next moment, there was a desk in the wall. The student was just having a bad day, and that's how some of these students are taught to deal with these emotions.
Like 2nd said, don't let other teachers get to you, especially if they're talking out of their butts and wouldn't last two seconds in a REAL classroom. In my experience, there's a certain type of person that decides to teach in other countries rather than in the US, and it's NOT because they're effective, experienced, or skilled teachers. Don't get me wrong, there are other teachers who teach abroad who ARE great teachers, but I've met a lot of this certain type of teacher that can't hack it here in the US so they run to a country where the culture allows them to deal with fewer behavioral issues and they think that behavior means they are better than those of us that deal with REAL problems on a daily basis.