Tenure in California

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by Michael777, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Michael777

    Michael777 Rookie

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    Jan 10, 2018

    I know teachers can obtain tenure after 2 years in California, but how does it work? Are part time jobs considered? Are replacement jobs considered?

    I currently have a .8 replacement job that is 103 contracted days. This is my first credentialed job.

    Thanks for your help!
     
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  3. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    Jan 11, 2018

    I'm also in CA and started at .8 in my district. I had 80% tenure after two years, and got up to 100% tenure after my third year (second year at 100%). I would check in with your union rep if you have more questions, though!
     
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 15, 2018

    2 years... geez... That must be some school system out there where every teacher has risen to greatness with no reason for removal after only two years. I was basically able to determine what I needed to improve after 2 years. In NJ it’s 4 years right now, that seems like a more reasonable sample size.
     
  5. Sam Aye M

    Sam Aye M Mr. Know-It-All

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    Jan 18, 2018

    I have my complaints about the 2-year tenure as well, even though I am a recipient of it (and appreciate it). The biggest difficulty that we have at my district is that we may be working with a brand new teacher, who slowly but surely is improving, but we need to decide whether to bring them back in March of their second year. Do we think she will continue to improve and eventually be a great teacher, or do we cut rope now, because once they get tenure, there's nothing we can do about it? Sadly, we've always erred on the "cut rope" side, There are some teachers that I wished we could have given another year before we had to make that decision. As you stated, it often takes two years just to learn what we need to improve on. The first two years are often the hardest of our careers. I wish we could have more time to make those decisions in CA.
     
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  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Jan 18, 2018

    Gotta love California!
     
  7. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    Jan 18, 2018

    After how many years do teachers (outside of California) get tenure?
     
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 18, 2018

    In NJ it is now 4 years and a day (so first day of the next school year and you have tenure). It was 3 years and a day prior. Remember, it’s the state that awards tenure so it’s not really even up to the schools beyond the decision to hire.
     
  9. Sam Aye M

    Sam Aye M Mr. Know-It-All

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    Jan 18, 2018

    I do, I do!!!

    A bunch of my friends have left the state, for various reasons. I’m keeping my behind here in CA.
     
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  10. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 18, 2018

    Woot woot, look at us today. Sorry California, y'all didn't even break the top 10.

    http://www.nj.com/education/2018/01..._education_ranking_sa.html#incart_river_index
     
  11. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 18, 2018

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride. We’re always number 2. I think the list is silly since they graded #’s 1-2 in the mid 80’s with B grades. That says more about their scale than it does the schools.

    The one that surprised me was Wyoming but I’m assuming it’s due to sample size as much as anything else. Not exactly surprised that it’s dominated by the north east. We do prop up the rest of the country with the money derived from our fancy book learning. I wish NJ would hop on the secession bandwagon. We don’t teach states and capitals anymore so the kids won’t notice them missing anyway. Imagine how good our schools would be if we pumped all the money we send south into them.
     
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 19, 2018

    It also costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to get rid of a tenured teacher in most cases. That is usually why they don’t bother. It’s not worth the hassle since it’s someone elses kids that have to suffer. If the teacher with the lowest eval score always got the children of district personnel, you’d see a lot more turnover.

    If it was as simple as writing them up 3 times tenure wouldn’t even matter. Between evals, tardiness (attend or on assignments due), etc. you’d be able to dismiss any normal human by December. Obviously not that easy.
     
  13. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 19, 2018

    You love Christie's talking point, don't ya?

    I think it is quite rare the number of truly horrible teachers who actually attain tenure.

    Here is an interesting way to look at tenure as saving money for districts:

    https://statisticsforum.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/tenure-for-teachers-how-much-is-it-worth/

    http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2014/07/how-much-money-is-tenure-worth.html
     
  14. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    Jan 19, 2018

    Where'd you get the info about teachers needing to get written up 3 times before getting dismissed?

    If only it were that easy! It usually takes YEARS to get rid of a tenured teacher. It's an incredibly lengthy process that includes much, much more than just 3 write ups and can cost districts hundreds of thousands of dollars!

    In my district, it has only happened once in the last 10 years. ONCE!

    I read this in an article: a California teacher has a better chance of being struck by lightning than being fired for incompetence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 19, 2018

    Did you read what YoungTeacherGuy wrote? He’s a VP in California I believe.
     
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  16. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 19, 2018

    Did you read what I wrote, or follow the links I posted? Or we just doing talking points here?
     
  17. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 19, 2018

    I actually meant to quote anon. I skimmed your blogs and dismissed them quickly.
     
  18. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 20, 2018

    Darn! You could've really learned something
     
  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 20, 2018

    Ignore reality when you disagree. Check.

    I think I deserve a million dollars. Doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen.

    I’m not going to go into a debate on global economics and job protections because your analysis won’t be accurate and then you’ll just complain about my position.
     
  20. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 20, 2018

    I could have learned that if tenure didn’t exist, teacher salaries would explode like superintendent salaries? Yea, totally missed out...
     
  21. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 20, 2018

    It doesn't mean teachers would make the same amount as superintendents, simply that teachers salaries would likely increase proportionately. Tenure saves districts a boatload of money. I will never understand the self-loathing of certain teachers.
     
  22. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 20, 2018

    That’s absolutely not true.
     
  23. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Sure is. Tenure is a BARGAIN for school districts.
     
  24. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jan 20, 2018

    So when Amy talks about stagnant wages in Indiana, where they don’t have tenure, why haven’t wages across the state exploded to get all of those low paid teachers?

    Take your own state. Taxpayers won’t be able to deduct their property taxes over 10,000 anymore. As a result your state will probably make them deductible instead.
    There will now be less money in the general fund, and less money eventually going to education.

    Typically with tenure, first one in first one out comes with layoffs. Then you have more high paid salary staff, but less staff members. If tenure didn’t exist, most school districts would get rid of the people who make the most money so they could have more bodies in the building.

    There is an over saturation of teachers in the market, they wouldn’t need to raise wages like a Walmart to compete. The reason? Rich people (who feel, not actually), squeezed at the top will continue to supress wages because they could have any teacher and still turn out ok. Low income districts will fall stagnant with less state revenue. Middle class districts on the cusp of taking their schools to the next level will increase money some to get them over the hump and into Blue Ribbon level. Other middle class districts with little state aide will pay the least of all. These are obviously generalities, and are prown to outliers.
     
  25. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 20, 2018

    If I grant you all that, then why do you seem so against tenure? Supposing that's all true, don't the pros outweigh the cons?
     
  26. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I’m not against tenure in theory, I’m against bad teachers being allowed to teach kids because it’s too hard and costly to remove them. If only it was 3 strikes and you’re out.
     
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