Teachers being the "worst students"...

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by JustMe, Sep 1, 2013.

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  1. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Another thread mentioned teachers (sometimes the ones who refuse to bend to certain situations students experience) asking for extensions for their own work due to their principals and so forth. This is something that really annoys me. That is, the complete lack of responsibility and give-a-darn from far too many teachers.

    When the principal emails us and asks for us to complete a form of some sort, or to respond to the email with an answer she needs in order to do such and such, or be sure to submit this or that by Friday...I DO IT. But more than a couple colleagues will literally laugh at the requests or assignments. And our principal rocks; she's not asking for anything whatsoever out of the ordinary or unnecessary. But she has to send regular messages stating that only four teachers have completed a certain task or only one grade level has submitted something. I know it doesn't usually directly impact me yet I find it frustrating, so I cannot imagine how the principal feels.

    Are you a teacher who blows off deadlines and such, or do you work to complete tasks in a timely manner as expected from your own students? Do you tend to determine yourself if a task is important and thus decide to do it or not or do it when you "get to it"?

    And I won't even get started on how HORRIBLE teachers are at faculty meetings and professional developments. It's just awful.

    :dizzy:
     
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  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Teachers really are the worst students!

    I always do what I'm asked to do. It baffles me that others don't, or worse: wont!
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I do what my admin asks in a timely and thoughtful manner.it doesn't bother me that others don't...they end up missing out on opportunities because of their tardiness/unawareness...I have a colleague friend who doesnt read email and is ALWAYS complaining that she doesn't know what's going on, misses deadlines, ends up losing money from her budget because she didn't read an email, misses out on social events...she says she's 'too busy' to get to email but then we all hear her whining!.:dizzy: oh well.
     
  5. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    I typically always turn things in on time. Occasionally I forget, but its not a pattern. I have worked with several teachers over the years who think its funny to see how long they can get away with not doing whatever the Principal asked. This happened to me once when I was a supervisor of a program. The teachers had to turn in lesson plans and one teacher told another teacher that she would wait and see how long it would take before I came and talked to her.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I think I work with the same person! :eek: :haha:
     
  7. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    OMG...she's one of my besties which means I hear it more than anyone (including sometimes she asks why I didn't tell her what was in email:dizzy:). I've started being a broken record "it was in email.":woot:
     
  8. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    It doesn't seem my colleagues miss out on much because of their lack of professionalism and common courtesy. Maybe if they did it would make me feel better. :haha: As it is, they're just being rude and making the p's life more difficult...not missing out on opportunities and such.

    One way their rudeness does impact me, though, is when the principal can't move forward with something until hearing back from everyone. So those who followed directions can't move on to the next steps or start preparing. Now that I'm thinking about it, this happens more than I originally would have thought.
     
  9. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    I think it's ridiculous, as well. Especially if the things being asked for are not out of the ordinary. I also think it's definitely the P's responsibility to talk with the person about expectations and professionalism. I hate when my P doesn't have the guts to do that, and will make general announcements to the room at faculty meetings. The guilty parties never think she is talking to them.
     
  10. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    :lol:

    Okay, I have one of these work friends as well.
     
  11. willow129

    willow129 Comrade

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    Hmmm I am really addicted to email but sometimes I forget to do things I've been asked to do and I'm really unorganized about accomplishing the little stuff. Often the kind of thing I'm asked to do by my supervisor is recruit kids for city wide ensembles, summer programs, high school ensembles, that kind of thing. I was hired to teach at one school but everyday I travel to another school at the end of the day, so the school where I'm the *only* music teacher, I'm not there at the end of the day which is the perfect time to talk to kids about this stuff, and there's no one else to do it...sometimes general classroom teachers seem annoyed when I ask to speak with kids during my prep. I know I'm interrupting, I just don't have any other time!! :(

    So, sometimes I don't get things done on time...but it's not out of defiance - although I feel a little resentful when it feels like there's so much.
     
  12. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I do turn in everything when it is asked or earlier. If the P asks for something unreasonable such as giving lots of forms to turn in on Monday and she gives them to me on Friday (it has happened with a past P), I might politely ask in private the P for another day.

    I do dislike it when P's bring up how many teachers haven't turned in a form. I appreciate the P I have now, who handles this in private. As a teacher who turns things in on time, I don't feel I should listen to a P rant about teachers who don't turn things in on time.
     
  13. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I'm sure many Ps will use the same excuse that some teachers will use. They have too many people to deal with to make it private. If they were to track down every teacher each time at a convenient time for the teacher as to not interrupt student learning, they would never be able to get anything else done. Following up with 1 or 2 stragglers is much different than following up with a group where only 5 out of 50 did what was supposed to be done.
     
  14. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    :lol:

    Should be interesting to see how many will respond honestly, ready to place their arms in the pillory. ;)

    I try to respond in a timely manner when possible, but I would imagine that principals, like their teachers, are different in their expectations and demands. If I had an administrator who expected three or four things each day... I might not handle them as timely. Also, it depends on the size of the task, and the time of the year (during conference time, I'm not nearly as fast as responding to each and every email from colleagues and my students' families, for example).

    Some principals may expect something daily, some may expect a weekly task done, and some may even expect things done two or three times a day!

    I would guess that those teachers who can do things in a timely manner for say, a principal who only expects a daily task/email/etc. may struggle if their principal asked for four or five things handled in a day; however, a teacher who could handle a weekly task may struggle with a daily task.

    We teachers could require students to do a major report every trimester, every month, or every week. Some students can handle the varying levels of demands, while some crumble under even the slightest demands.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    My one colleague seems to take pride in it. She thinks it's pretty funny. If I ask what she thought about this or that she literally scoffs and says something along the lines of, "Yeah, right. You think I did that?" And I am not exaggerating.

    But I doubt she's spending any time on a teacher forum. :p
     
  16. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    I would venture to say it also depends on the number of years in the profession... when I first started, I was very gung-ho on all tasks given to me...but now? Not so much. ;)

    (Of course, one should take one's personality into consideration as well. There are colleagues of mine who are gung-ho after 30 years of teaching, and there are newbies who get burned out by March of their first year!) :unsure::eek:
     
  17. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I don't believe one has to be enthusiastic about all tasks, but I don't think that years of experience or personality allows teachers to blow off the principal's requests, especially when they are perfectly reasonable.
     
  18. dmbfan36

    dmbfan36 Rookie

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    I do what I am asked as long as I am asked for things and actually given time to do them. There were a few instances of emails being sent late in the afternoon after I have had preps and checked emails asking for things by close of business or early the next morning. I don't check email when I have students in my room so no those things didn't get there in the most timely manner but neither was the email asking for things. My favorite last year was an email sent at 7PM asking for something before the next morning. Needless to say I didn't see that email until the afternoon - sorry not my fault with that.
     
  19. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    So it kind of depends on the person, not years of experience, wouldn't you say? Personally, I'm in my 17th year. I adhere to the 'take care of paperwork and admin requests in a timely manner' because it's my work ethic and personal preference for not allowing such things pile up. I hate missing deadlines, so I act accordingly so I don't miss them. It also builds 'good will' so if I have a request for my admin, it's perceived in the light of the 'deposits' I've made in that account.
     
  20. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    Isn't "perfectly reasonable" subjective?

    What may be "perfectly reasonable" for me, isn't "perfectly reasonable" for you.

    For example, I may have extra time on my hands so answering a principal's email every hour is "perfectly reasonable"; but maybe you are swamped with work (and/or have a very hard class and/or are dealing with other time-consuming restraints)... that may NOT be perfectly reasonable.

    I certainly shouldn't judge you just because you aren't able to handle the workload in the same time as me. I think if I did that, it would be very unfair of me and there'd be a good chance it might even cause a rift between you and me.

    So, I guess a question for you, JustMe, is: what do you think is perfectly reasonable? (By the way, that isn't sarcastic... I'm genuinely curious and want to keep the conversation going. :) )
     
  21. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I think there is a general range of "reasonable" that most people can agree upon. Don't you think?

    Emailing teachers at seven in the evening wanting a response before the next morning? Most people would agree that's unreasonable. Emailing Monday morning and asking you to email back the number of students in your classroom attending Friday's field trip? Most people would agree that's reasonable.
     
  22. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    That is what my parenthetical portion was addressing.

    Also, I do think that while not years of experience may play into a factor, years at the job may indeed have some bearing.

    For a similar reason that you stated ("building good will"), a person who is pre-tenure may be trying harder to impress his/her administrator and be more gung-ho. Also, speaking for myself, I had more energy when I was younger.

    So (at risk of repeating myself in an attempt to make myself clear) - I'm not saying that years of work is the ONLY factor that determines willingness to complete tasks in a timely manner. On the contrary, I think personality and work ethics play a HUGE part in it. I'm simply saying that one shouldn't discount that as a factor.
     
  23. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Quoted for truth.
     
  24. HistTchr

    HistTchr Habitué

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    It drives me crazy with some people. Teachers need to turn things in to me all the time. If someone who is usually on time with things misses a deadline (or, even better, tells me that they might need some more time in advance), I don't give it a second thought. I do have problems when the chronic offenders don't follow through and don't seem to find anything wrong with it. Last year was my first year as an administrator, and I saw that a little bit at first, but it got better throughout the year when people figured out that I was actually checking that they turned things in.
     
  25. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    It depends on what is being requested. There is nothing unreasonable in our district for a teacher to be expected to check e-mail first thing in the morning to see if the admin has a directive for the day or that there is something vital that all teachers need to know for the day since all teachers are supposed to be at school 30 minutes prior to the start of classes.
     
  26. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    I find myself in agreement with your scenarios. But I'm just one person. :) I may have colleagues who disagree. (In fact, I probably DO have colleagues who disagree). :whistle::lol:

    But again... you're using terms such as: "general", "reasonable", and "most".

    For example, would it be reasonable to ask for the number of students by Thursday morning? Wednesday morning? Tuesday morning? For me... I could PROBABLY do Wednesday morning but Tuesday would be a major crunch. However, I have a colleague who is SO on top of things she could have the numbers in by Monday afternoon!

    So, piggybacking on what czacza was saying about personality types and worth ethics: each person is different and holds different values, including a different definition of "timely" and even "reasonable".
     
  27. Ted

    Ted Habitué

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    Yes, we are expected to check our emails three times each day: morning, lunch, after-school.

    I usually am able to check email between lessons, even! However, I have colleagues whom I email and won't hear back until two or three days later! :eek:hmy: Does it irk me? Oh, you bet! But I've also found that all that does is raise my blood pressure...as usually they won't be changing their work ethics on my account anytime soon. ;)
     
  28. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I am a new team leader AND a grad student, so I have to stay on top of everything and be a good example to the others with whom I teach. If I slip up and fall behind, a whole group of other teachers has to deal with the consequences. Also, I put myself in danger of blowing my 4.0 for my M.Ed in (of all things) Educational Leadership. My days of sitting at the "bad kids" table in the back of Professional Development are over. I sat our team front and center at Convocation and got no arguments about it. Hopefully, we'll continue to hit our goals and deadlines as long as I keep my head together.
     
  29. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Well, yeah, I'm using those terms because there isn't a single "answer" to your question. And I don't see the point in outlining every possible situation (which would be impossible anyhow) and deciding if it's reasonable or not. Reasonable people can generally agree on what is reasonable give certain circumstances. It won't be unanimous every time, but generally...

    Regarding personalities, sometimes you have to suck it up and do your job whether it jibes with your personality or not.
     
  30. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    I always meet deadlines and turn things in on time. In sped, the deadlines are often legal ones. Yes, it bothers me that other people don't.

    I will say that I have a REALLY hard time sitting through PD that is lecture-style, especially when it's either not relevant to me or something I already know (we just had a 3 hour sped PD the other day about the specifics of writing measurable goals). I guess when you're used to being the one teaching it's hard to just sit there. I don't talk to other people or anything like that, but I am constantly fidgeting or doodling on my paper.
     
  31. sue35

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    Ok I will admit it. I miss most deadlines. At work and at home (like RSVPs) I am a very disorganized person and also forget everything I am told. I set alarms, file things, etc but I will most likely lose the forms I should turn in. I am known for this. I have no excuse and feel badly about it. I really do try and change. I have things due sometime in September and I am determined not to lose any and turn them in on time.
     
  32. RadiantBerg

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    Luckily this professionalism is addressed in our evaluations. (Domain 4-Danielson).

    I will admit that I am a bit obsessive with email, and replying to emails promptly. Several of my colleagues hate doing things via email, and prefer to meet in person to do things. I'll send an email with a simple question, and often solution, and they'll respond "Let's meet after school to discuss this."
    To me, the meetings in person end up wasting a lot of time as they use it more to socialize with one another than to get things done. I get that some things need to be done in person, but they like meeting for small things like "how many points would you take off for this error" or "what are you giving for homework?"
     
  33. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I think one of the things that would make more teachers more, well, engaged as students would be to make sure the leadership structure is more participative in nature. Sitting through meetings and professional developments where we are simply told what to do is frustrating, and many of us shut down. We as teachers may not always have a vote in procedure, but we should have a voice. Just as our students feel more engaged in classes where they have a bit of a choice in things, teachers would as well. I'm probably letting my Love and Logic thinking show on this post.
     
  34. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I do try to meet deadlines for responding to emails and filling out paper work, especially if it is something that will be held against me come evaluation time or if it is a personal request from Admin - I don't want to hear their mouths.

    But, as the year goes on, I more apt to submit things late such as my weekly lesson plans (they are due Sunday night) and the weekly PD assignments our Admin has us complete that are not contractual. This year our PD assignment is a book study and we will have weekly assignments; I already know that will be at the very bottom of my to-do list.
     
  35. RadiantBerg

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    That's just crazy. I probably wouldn't do that though my admin wouldn't be rude enough to require it anyway.
     
  36. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I was like that 20 years ago, so I know how you feel. I am amazed that a few key things changed me nearly 180 degrees within 1 year. They were:

    1. I try to get everything I can on the computer. This makes it almost impossible to lose items. (I lose paper, but I haven't lost a laptop yet.)

    2. OK time to laugh at this one--I got the book Time Management For Dummies. The first few chapters helped me immensely. The second half of the book is a waste of time.

    3, The book "Eat That Frog" also helped me a lot.

    4. I use lots and lots of file folders that are pre-made before the school year. They help me to make sure all papers have a home. My goal is to leave no paper homeless.

    I have seen more teachers lose their jobs from not turning things in on time and being late than for any other reason. I'd make it a point to try to make changes soon. I love being organized now and there is no amount of $$ you could pay me to go back to doing things 2 or 3 times because of losing items.
     
  37. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Thank you, RadiantBerg. The book is called "Never Work Harder Than Your Students."
     
  38. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    :lol: guess tHat gives you an excuse to not do the assignments!
     
  39. leeshis0019

    leeshis0019 Companion

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    Not teaching yet, but in my student teaching and TOSS'ing experiences my mentor teachers told me it's policy and they are expected to check emails at least twice in the morning and then at least once during planning. One of my mentor teachers had been teaching for 35 years (so you can guess her age) and had no issues being on top of emails. She would actually read the email then write a post-it to remind herself and set it on-top of the keyboard since she used it all of the time. I got into the same habit when I was getting emails and it did work. I'll probably end up doing it again when I teach.


    I also get the experience of seeing teachers that claimed they just skip over certain emails because it's usually unimportant. You know...the emails that read URGENT in big-bold letters. Of course, I saw a lot of "URGENT" emails when I was there so it seemed like it lost its finesse and they needed to employ something else.
     
  40. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    This is why I try to submit things on time because I have also seen people fired for doing things that cause headaches for Admin (submitting paperwork late, never responding to requests, coming to work late, formally complaining to the board or our Union rep about a problem) than for being a bad instructor.
     
  41. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    :lol: Exactly. When I read the title, my response was, "trust me, I don't."
     
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