Teacher turnover

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by 2ndTimeAround, Mar 15, 2014.

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  1. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    Are you advocating more standardized testing? That will make you rather unpopular on this board, I'd imagine.

    Regardless, what issue do you take with the model posted above and its variables?
     
  2. Mrs.DLC

    Mrs.DLC Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    I don't want to get into a debate, but VAM scores in FL can vary by(district) county( which students count, which test, percents, other variables, etc.) Also, many of the tests used for the scores are not proctored....enough said. It is not a "perfect" system.
     
  3. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Mar 16, 2014

    I take issue with the fact that it doesn't account for kindergarten teachers or PE teachers, I take issue with the fact that it uses a single post test data source, and I take issue with the fact that entire schools are having every single teacher rated as ineffective based on students that don't even attend that school.

    You're the one who brought up poverty from unrelated points in the articles I posted.
     
  4. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    You're responsible for what you post:

    "Andy Ford, president of the Florida Education Association, said the value-added system has major flaws, such as not accounting for student poverty and not having a reliable system for ensuring teachers’ scores are based on the students they actually taught."

    The question isn't whether VAM are perfect; the question is whether VAM are better than historical teacher evaluation and compensation programs that based pay and retention solely on years of service and education, neither of which are correlated with student achievement.

    The people complaining about single data points being used in retention decisions didn't have a problem with single data points being used when that data point was a yearly observation, did they? The simple fact is that people don't want to be held accountable at their jobs, so instead of trying to fix a system that can provide an insight into the actual impacts teachers have, they trash the system, sit on their hands, and rant about how unfair the world is.
     
  5. gr3teacher

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    I can't speak to the "single evaluation" point. My evaluation has never been based on fewer than 8 drop-in observations.
     
  6. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    But who's to say you didn't have "8 bad days!" After all, teachers have at least 25-30 students taking those tests; the argument that one student may have a "bad day" is made all the time in refutation of using that data for accountability. I have over 125 students taking the ECA this year; should I still get to use that excuse?
     
  7. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    Mar 16, 2014

    This topic specifically referred to the "anti-teacher climate" as the reason for the turnover. All three things you mentioned are, at best, loosely tied to that alleged climate. They are a direct result of budget issues nationwide due to the economy. The post was obviously a reference to the political climate.

    And yes, if you can't handle that, you should move on.
     
  8. ready2learn

    ready2learn Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    Going back to the OP, I think teacher turnover will be high in my school this year. There is a new principal at my school this year. Many teachers there had never taught under anyone else other than the principal who left last summer. So as a result of those changes I think my building turnover will be high.

    I don't think that turnover will be because of the politics in teaching though. In fact, many believe my area will have many teachers applying because of the politics involved in education. I work within 10 miles of the border of North Carolina and benefits in my state are much better than a teacher would experience in NC.
     
  9. Jerseygirlteach

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    Mar 16, 2014

    Teacher turnover is low in my district. For the most part, teachers are treated with respect and fairness. I do worry about layoffs due to a budget issue, so if there's any significant turnover, it will be because of that I am sure. A small number of teachers are nonrenewed each year and a small number retire, but other than that, most are happy and don't jump ship.
     
  10. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    Mar 16, 2014

    It's pretty low here... I don't know of anyone who has left the profession early other than retirement. Our school has the principal and a fifth grade teacher both retiring this year, but both are well past retirement age. Last year we also had a teacher work a year or two beyond retirement age, going back seven years, there was an early retirement because of health issues, but that's all I really see.
     
  11. HistoryVA

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    Mar 16, 2014

    I think next year will be interesting. Our school has to lay off about 15 teachers. but we know it won't be anyone from our department. We do have 2 teachers in my department who are seriously talking about leaving. One would be a loss, but I'd be thrilled if the other left. So.. mixture of good news and bad news, I guess. :)
     
  12. Peregrin5

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    Mar 16, 2014

    Thanks Honest. To be honest myself, yes it does irritate me, but I can see the reasoning for this type of system. One of the main factors that predicts the effectiveness of a teacher is experience, and I unfortunately don't have much of it.

    I'm hoping that by the virtue of being a good teacher and my principal taking note of that fact and saying that she'll fight for my position, I can be secure in knowing that I have a job next year. The truth is, I can think of some scenarios in which she won't have any choice (i.e. if one of the other schools in the district doesn't have enough enrollment and they have to transfer a more experienced teacher in for my position).
     
  13. MsMar

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    Mar 16, 2014

    This is my third year at my school (6th in the district) and in the past two years only 1 person left my school for anything other than retirement. I will say of the 4 people who retired last year, 2 definitely did it due to frustrations with the profession and probably would have stayed on another 1-3 years if things were better. This year we only have two people retiring, our nurse and one teacher. I guess I won't know until we come back to school in the fall if anyone decided to leave over the summer.
     
  14. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Mar 16, 2014

    Most studies show that experience only improves student achievement/teacher efficacy up until the 3rd-5th year, and it plateaus beyond that point. That is, of course, not to say that there aren't younger teachers with only a year or two of experience who are better than their peers with a decade of experience.

    It sounds as if you won't have a problem keeping your job, but if you need to hit the market, a glowing recommendation from your principal should make finding another position relatively easy.
     
  15. RadiantBerg

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    Mar 16, 2014

    I could picture the older teachers in P's district dancing around and singing "Last in, First out, Turn yourself about, Last in, First out, Let's all scream and shout!"
     
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