Teacher turnover

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by 2ndTimeAround, Mar 15, 2014.

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  1. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    This year teachers in my state are really getting it socked to them. It has been getting bad over the past few years, both at the state level and of course what everyone else is experiencing nationally.

    I personally know of ten teachers that have left in the middle of the semester/year because they simply could not wait until the summer to find a new job. Right now in my district and neighboring districts there are about 30 open positions for teachers. Most of which are hard to fill positions in high schools.

    How has the anti-teacher climate affected turnover in your neck of the woods?
     
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  3. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    It's not too bad here yet, but if we don't start getting step increases and/or COLAs, I expect there to be an exodus. I'm reasonably close to my own financial breaking point.
     
  4. KinderCowgirl

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    We really don't have bad turnover rates. Most of the people who leave positions do so to retire or to move on to an admin position.
     
  5. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    We always have a really high rate of teacher turnover in my district. I'm not sure that it's due to an anti-teacher climate as much as it is due to low pay and behavior issues/lack of admin support (at some schools, not necessarily district-wide).
     
  6. Reality Check

    Reality Check Habitué

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    It's been noticeably increasing annually. And as you mentioned, I'm seeing more that just won't wait for the end of the year.

    They've taken an unattractive job and made it MORE unattractive. I hear more and more people expressing the sentiment that they didn't pay all of that tuition for a career where they are treated so poorly and is taking a toll on them personally. It's become a matter of survival for them.
    :tired:
     
  7. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    My school has traditionally had a very low turnover. I have noticed that some veteran teachers are talking about trying to get out of teaching all together after being in the district for 15 or 20 years, but I haven't seen any follow through yet. The state has been piling a lot on but I think my district has done a great job of making sure it really doesn't have a big impact on us. A ton of our staff came from a neighboring district that has gone "reform crazy" and is nationally known for the stunts they've pulled. My previous district was also really bad. I've noticed that those of us who have seen what it can really be like out there are very happy in our current district, while those who have only worked in my current district are very stressed out b/c it's more stressful to them than it has been in the past here. I think people like to vent but I predict we will have very few open positions for next year.
     
  8. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    No change here. The only people leaving are retiring.
     
  9. ScienceEd

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    I have noticed a lot of my coworkers are working another job in addition to teaching just to make ends meet. I think its taking a toll on everyone that just being a teacher isn't enough any more.
     
  10. nyteacher29

    nyteacher29 Comrade

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    We had five leave last year and five so far...and the year isn't even over yet!! Majority were older teachers being pushed out and few new
     
  11. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    We have very little turnover. Almost all of ours is due to retirement.
     
  12. RadiantBerg

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    It isn't too bad. A few have retired earlier than they would have otherwise due to all this "reform", but no mass turnover.
     
  13. Go Blue!

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    Teacher turnover is incredibly high in Baltimore City PS, but it has little to do with the political climate of education.

    Teachers just don't last long (over 5 years) here; it's a rough district in countless ways. Every year, I see at least 3 or 4 teachers leave mid-year at my school and even more leave (or are fired) at the end of the year. I do not count retirements as turnover (in this case).

    I've worked at 3 schools in my 6 years in the district, so I'm part of the turnover problem although I have not left the district yet.
     
  14. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I know only two teachers to leave the profession. One realized teaching wasn't her passion her very first year so she pursued what was it she's very happy now...and very, very healthy financially. The other had an opportunity she would be insane to pass up. She's incredibly wealthy now and living the life...
     
  15. mr_post22

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    Most of the teacher at my school have taught there since 1998 when the school opened. There are some who leave because they got offered a better position of their family got relocated or they retired. But we also better kids than the other 28 high schools in the county. Most teachers move to a different school within a county and very few just flat out leave in the middle of the school year. But there are a few. Now, I wish I could say the same for the school bus drivers.
     
  16. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    We have a sizable turnover in teachers. That may be because many of our teachers were already retired from traditional school and decided to make that retirement permanent. Others are young and decided to move on to more traditional settings. However, the main reason for turnover is the growth of the school allows for more administrative opportunities, allowing teachers to become instructional supervisors, mentors, or curriculum specialists.
     
  17. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    Anyone who leaves over political frustration should have quit long ago. Good riddance.

    I still know plenty of excellent young teacher who haven't been able to get back into the profession after the last 4 years of cuts. The sooner the whiners move on the better.
     
  18. willow129

    willow129 Comrade

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    We're having turn over... we have two teachers per grade K-8 plus 4 specialist teachers, and special ed programs. The kindergarten teacher just filled me in and it's wild...our principal is retiring but that's not why people are leaving...

    1st grade teacher retiring - health problems and it is time
    2nd grade teacher retiring
    5th grade teacher had a crazy year, stress...not coming back
    7+8th Social Studies leaving due to frustration - got a job teaching internationally
    Library teacher is on maternity leave right now and last year she was considering looking elsewhere because they are being crazy about specialist schedules, so don't know if she's coming back. Haven't heard from her.
    Spanish teacher is looking elsewhere - again, crazy specialist schedules
    There's always turn over in special ed, I've worked here three years and every year there have been new teachers.
    *I'm* looking elsewhere...

    One of the third grade teachers is probably going to retire after next year.

    Pretty wild. Especially because last year they had a new spanish teacher, new music teacher (me) new middle school english teacher, new second grade teacher, new art teacher

    Where I went to school there wasn't so much turnover. My teachers had mostly been there for ages. But I grew up in the country so maybe that's different.
     
  19. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    The nerve of people... being upset over their pay getting slashed, benefits getting wrecked, and their work requirements getting raised. Unbelievable.
     
  20. Peregrin5

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    Our Union just negotiated a pay raise and benefit raise so I don't think there will be much turn-over. Unfortunately, the district is laying off quite a few teachers due to budget issues, myself included, though my Principal told me to ignore it because they still need me next year looking at our numbers and she's not going to let me be replaced by anyone else.
     
  21. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    Sorry to here about the lay off notice, Peregrin. Glad your principal is so supportive.
     
  22. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Glad you still have a job. How does your district decide which teachers are first to be RIFed?
     
  23. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    It's a problem here. Even before the low pay it's been an issue in the Delta region.Our new superintendent is cutting some programs so that our district can give teacher's a pay raise of 1000 dollars plus our step. OUR sup told us she understands that it's easy to live in Ms. But work in surrounding states. Memphis pays 10000 to.12000 more per year.Same with other surrounding states. Low pay is a critical factor in teacher retention. It's causing a teacher shortage in my area of the state which is new. Typing on phone so.forgive typos.
     
  24. donziejo

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    Meant to add we have a new evaluation system in place too and that adds to the stress for some. I think some feel they are working to many hours to comply with all.the new things . The principal in my town which is an A district is telling teachers if they don't cut it they let them go.in the middle of the year.
     
  25. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Reality, I normally take issue with some of your posts, but this time you hit the nail on the head! This is what is happening in my state.
     
  26. DHE

    DHE Connoisseur

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    In neighboring districts, many teachers are leaving due to new evaluations, CCSS, and feeling that the central office personnel are not supporting them. We had a big turnover in our school last year. Most of those who left wanted to work closer to home.
     
  27. Peregrin5

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    It's by seniority. This is only my second year teaching, so I'm pretty much the lowest on the totem pole.

    Thanks math! This is why I love my school. My principal actually told me that if anyone who has more seniority than me tries to interview for my position, she was going to act like a total B so they wouldn't want to come. xD
     
  28. YoungTeacherGuy

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    Considering my district is one of the highest paying in Central California, one would have to get quite a wonderful offer to consider going elsewhere.
     
  29. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Turnover here is primarily due to retirement or teachers transferring to another school within the district. In my area, very few teachers leave the profession.
     
  30. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    No major changes in my district...
     
  31. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    We've had huge turnover for years. It's less to do with anti-teacher sentiments, and more to do with non-competitive pay (that finally changed this year), poor scheduling, lack of consistency in scheduling across the district, a district who thinks they can do no wrong and refuses to admit mistakes, and an alarming lack of resources.

    Based on this board, I'd say I work in a small-to-medium sized district, with about 50 schools, yet we lose hundreds of teachers each year - and only a handful of those to retirement. I'm hoping that with the salary increases we've gotten this year that my district is finally seeing the writing on the wall and is maybe a teeny bit tired of losing people to the surrounding districts.
     
  32. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    You seem like a good teacher from what I've seen here; does that type of system irritate you?
     
  33. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    ...And I guess (since it was decided by politicians), that teachers shouldn't be upset because next year their salary will be determined by the scores of students they don't even know...from one test, one day out of the year.
     
  34. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    State and source?
     
  35. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Florida

    http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/get-scho...a-teachers-protest-court-ruling-their-perfor/

    Several First Coast school districts said they planned to change their use of the measurements, especially for teachers whose students didn’t take reading or math FCATs, which feed the value-added scores. “If you’re a sixth-grade social studies teacher, you want to be held accountable for sixth-grade, social-studies content,” said Duval Superintendent Nikolai Vitti.

    Currently, teachers of subjects other than reading or math receive their VAM scores based on the reading and math scores of their students. Andy Ford, president of the Florida Education Association, said the value-added system has major flaws, such as not accounting for student poverty and not having a reliable system for ensuring teachers’ scores are based on the students they actually taught.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-added-travesty-for-an-award-winning-teacher/

    Since Cook’s school only goes through second grade, her school district is using the FCAT scores from the third graders at Alachua Elementary School to determine the VAM score for every teacher at her school.

    ...

    This is her second year at Irby Elementary, where she teaches first grade. She never taught a single student who took the FCAT at Alachua Elementary last spring. The same will hold true for this year’s evaluation; 40 percent of her appraisal will be based on the scores of students she has never taught.



    http://www.alligator.org/opinion/editorials/article_880c06a2-9dd6-11e3-ab8f-001a4bcf887a.html

    The first point of criticism the scores received, the Sentinel stated, is that about 70 percent of Florida teachers cover subjects not considered by state testing. The Sentinel highlighted the case of one P.E. teacher whose score is calculated based on the reading performance of 70 fourth-graders.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...it-pay-20110326,0,5609667.story#axzz2w7xi4F3Z


    Long story short, under Florida's system, kindergarten teachers spend three years getting evaluated and paid based off children they never had. Finally in year four, they get evaluated and paid based off their first year students. If you're the school orchestra teacher, you'll never get paid or evaluated based off of your own work.


    But at least DC Public schools are no longer evaluating the custodial staff based off of school reading scores, so that's something.
     
  36. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    The original poster stated their salary, in its entirety (no other qualifiers) will be determined solely by test scores of students who they've never met.

    Your sources don't support that assertion. In fact, they directly counter that assertion.

    Also, anyone stating that VAM don't account for poverty doesn't know what they're talking about.
     
  37. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    She said their salary would be determined by students they never had. That is true. It's a true statement whether it's 100% or 1%.

    Also, Florida's VAM system sucks and doesn't account for things like poverty, unless you truly believe that entire schools have nothing but ineffective teachers.
     
  38. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    It was not, "a portion of their salary;" it was the entirety of their salary.

    Explain to me how VAM systems work. I honestly, truly do not think you know.
     
  39. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I understand how it is SUPPOSED to work. A good VAM system would judge growth from one year to the next, as well as growth from the beginning of the year to the end. So under this system, a kid could do terribly on a test, but still "help" a teacher's rating if they did less terribly than in the past.

    A good system would also account for the fact that most teacher's don't have state tests attached to their subject, and would also account for the fact that ONE source of data should not be the ONLY source of data.

    Now, why don't you explain to me how Florida's VAM system works. I don't think you know that.
     
  40. Em_Catz

    Em_Catz Devotee

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    Our school has a high turnover rate. Only one person has retired in my five years there. Everyone else has either left the county/state or gone to a new school. Last year we lost sbout 12 people.

    The year before that about 7 or 8. Our principal is not a bad person, but there's A LOT of pressure at our school. You're always afraid that you're going to slip up, do something wrong and get in trouble. The people I keep in touch with who've left my school always say they feel like they can breathe at their new places.

    Very rarely do people leave for retirement, even the custodial and kitchen staff. They usually get better positions in the county or quit.
     
  41. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    This is pure semantics. I say that my salary for the next school is dependent on whether or not my district provides a step increase. I'll still GET a salary even if they don't provide a step increase, so it isn't 100% dependent, but my actual, final salary depends on that factor.
     
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