Teacher Sign In

Discussion in 'General Education' started by TrademarkTer, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    We have had to sign in the last three years. Our current superintendent requires it. I sometimes miss signing out because the office is closed by the time I leave some days. I just sign out when I sign in the next morning. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I'm not sure that surgical site irritation counts as a disability. I'm also not sure that temporary disabilities are covered by the ADA.
     
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Why?
     
  4. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    Ok so I guess in short what are the rules in your district regarding signing in? Not sure if I missed this in the thread.

    Secondly, you have an issue with the secretary (correct me if I'm wrong) policing the sign in sheet? In that respect I have to disagree. The payroll secretary who is usually the P's secretary is the reason I get paid. She does all payroll therefore is the person that SHOULD be policing any policy that has to do with the hours that you worked because otherwise you wouldn't get paid. My last payroll secretary was also great at probably giving me more time than I was really allowed for some bereavement time. I always establish a friendly good relationship with this person at any school I've worked at because they can be really helpful and a little bit of a buffer between myself and admin.

    I get the counter arguments. They are definitely valid. But again for your specific situation and school what are the rules and policies regarding time worked and how that time gets tracked at your school/district/school system? Is there a big rule that's school system wide that trickles down to each school?

    I haven't read what mine are but I know we are not required to "punch in a time clock" just the whole moving of a time card unless we are late or leaving early. Time cards are marked for days that you are absent and signed at the end of the month. Time cards don't exist at my new school, so there's the sign in/out method. Either way there's some sort of daily record that I was at work during my contracted hours.
     
  5. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    Also if admin wants to use the sign in/out sheet to target teachers who never stay late then that's not a school anyone should be working in IMHO.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    At my school we do not sign in or out for our regular hours. The contract where I agreed to work from XX:XX until YY:YY and the fact that I am present in my classroom teaching students are the daily record that I have worked my required contract hours.
     
  7. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    I don't have to sign in. I know of a few teachers who are physically in school 90 minutes short of our contracted hours every single day. It wouldn't be so bad if I knew they did planning from home or took on a couple of events per year, or just did something that contributed to the school community. But these teachers do nah da.
    If I had to sign in every morning, I really don't care, because I have nothing to hide. It would just be another minor annoyance. I wouldn't take it personally because I'm 100% confident it's not me the P is targeting. Personally, I would like to see teachers not working their contracted hours start staying for their contracted hours and if this is how it's going to make this happen, then so be it. If I really had to go out of my way to sign in e.g. Walk 10 minutes to the office like the OP, then like others have suggested here, I'd suggest to the P, multiple locations for signing in or multiple methods for signing in.
    What I would take personally is if one of the days, I had to leave an hour early because I had somewhere important to be or do, that the P would come to me and say 'hey you didn't work your required hours on Monday last week' or something like that. Because that's a lack of appreciation and acknowledgment of the hours I do put in, sacrificing my personal and family time, so that to me, would be personal.
     
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  8. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    We have a check sheet. It's mostly so the secretary can easily remember who's out if someone needs us. Sometimes I just email her if I can't make it down before classes start. It's not really enforced. Some people never check in...

    ETA: we just sign in. There's no time or anything. It's literally just a checklist for the week. We never have to checkout.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    They are.
     
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Because it's illegal so I can instantly dismiss which I don't think you were interested in as an argument.
     
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  11. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

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    I am also in a union. Legally, we can't be punished for only working contract hours. The Ps already know who works contract hours and who works more and any unofficial differential treatment that is going to happen already happens without a sign in sheet, so since they can't legally do it, I know that having an official record wouldn't make any difference.

    As for the "I'm an adult" argument, the problem I see with that is that everyone who works in a school is an adult and yet some people do abuse the flexibility of our system and if our admin calls them on it, they get accused of 'targeting' people and without a consistent way to monitor everyone it is hard to prove. The union is required to defend everyone (even if the union thinks the employee is doing something wrong) so the first consequence of a warning regarding being late is the union will say, how are you documenting that everyone else was on time? If the P can't answer that, its considered targeting an employee. So where I work the only way for a P to be able to address an issue is to prove that they are monitoring everyone.

    As I said before, the 'proof' in my District would be the cameras but if the District felt this was ineffective they could require a sign in.
     
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  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    My union is very similar but also realistic. To the admin they act just as you say. To us in private, they say we will fight for your contracted rights and make sure we protect your contracted rights. That's also why they say not to do extra stuff that they bargained to have limited (like working through duty free lunch). If we break the contract, there isn't much they can do and they tell us that very clearly.
     
  13. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    My first school had a sign-in sheet. I virtually never actually signed it though because I was always there before the sign-up sheet was posted for the day, and just never remembered to go back to the front. Now, if they put up a sign-up sheet, it's an absolute guarantee that I would never sign it. I'm always at school at least an hour before the first administrator or secretary, and to put it bluntly, making unnecessary trips to the office is a huge pain in the ass, and waste of my time.
     
  14. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Any school i've been in has a weekly sheet they put out on Friday afternoon. If they did require it, you could request they put it out earlier not to inconvenience you. It's not a big ask on your part and what would they say to you? No, don't get to work early!?
     
  15. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Unless they kept it outside the office, I couldn't get to it until somebody got into the office. You know, locked doors and what have you.
     
  16. urban teacher

    urban teacher Rookie

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    The school from hell had a punch clock because some paras were always late. Rather than deal with them, on top of the district sign in sheet we had the time clock. So you used your fob to punch in/out and then signed in/out. Not sure what this accomplished except for destroying morale
     
  17. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I sign in...it's no big deal and arguing about where I have to do it isn't a hill I'm willing to die on.
     
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  18. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    We sign in and out online everyday (I usually do from my phone or my laptop when I get to my classroom). It's to keep track of who is and is not in the building in case of a drill or an emergency. Although upper admin can keep track of when you sign in and out, anyone can do it from their phone at any time, so that's not really a reliable way to keep track that closely.

    Teachers forget all the time to sign in/out, and occasionally we get email reminders but are not disciplined.
     
  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Also a reasonable request.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  20. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Is the admin viewing teachers tardy if not signed in by a specific time? If so, use the intercom in the closest room when you get in to notify the office of your arrival. And then go sign in. A ten minute wLk though? That's about a half mile for the average walker! Is your school really THAT big?
     
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  21. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    This really IS an inflammatory issue! I honestly had no idea it could be this divisive.

    That being said, let's focus on the issue itself and refrain from any ad hominem attacks.
     
  22. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Our contracted start time is 7:15 so anyone after that would be tardy. Now he hasn't said that there would be any consequences for being tardy, but I assume if it's a pattern, we'd be spoken to. I'm not worried about that at all though because I'm always there when I should be. When I say 10 minutes, I mean five minutes there and five back. I teach in the corner of the hall furthest from the office. Our hallways are packed with children, even in the morning, so between traversing the halls to get there, waiting for the other people to finish signing, and walking back, the total is close.

    I'll see how it goes----I may eventually ask if we can put a sheet towards the back, but he's a new principal, so I don't know him well enough yet to know how he'd respond.
     
  23. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Oh how I would love to be paid by the hour! I could easily double my take home pay if that was the case. Overtime would be heavenly!!!
     
  24. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Or what about the employee that shows up on time but never does anything with students. Kids are doing whatever they like for the period? But hey, Teacher was there on time!
     
  25. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Hmmm, you don't seem to be playing very nice on this thread at all. You're sarcastic, mean-spirited and are making implications about posters' work ethic.
     
  26. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    We have classrooms farther than a 1/2 mile from the main office.

    My very first high school as a child had 20 minute passing periods because some classrooms were over a mile from each other. If you were unfortunate enough to have biology right after gym, you would have to run part of the way to get to class on time. The campus was very open so there wasn't much congestion on the route. My class isn't nearly that far from the main office but the hallways are filled with kids, even at the start of teachers' days, so it takes longer than you'd suspect.
     
  27. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I disagree. Though anyone who considers it a burden to walk to the office and sign a paper is doing enough to demonstrate their work ethic without me saying anything. I hope after enough of complaining the admin requires all teachers to enter and exit through the door closest to the office, and assigns parking based on proximity to the office. Closest rooms get closest spots. It will be like the presidential fitness test for complainers.
     
  28. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Maybe those teachers should request a wagon pulled by students so they can make it to the sign in sheet. If it's up hill we should probably switch to horses.
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Source?

    https://www.ada.gov/archive/q&aeng02.htm
    "...the ADA applies to persons who have impairments and that these must substantially limit major life activities...but an individual with a minor, nonchronic condition of short duration, such as a sprain, broken limb, or the flu, generally would not be covered."
     
  30. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    No, seriously. How would you implement this sign-in policy at such a school?
     
  31. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    To be fair, my school has two buildings. My room is at the far end of one building and the office is at the far end of the other building. According to my FitBit, my walk to the office and back records as 12 minutes of activity. I'm not a speed walker by any means, but I'm not super slow either. It's a really long walk, through an outdoor area and down a very long hallway. If the back door to the second building is locked, walking around the building will easily add another 8 minutes.
     
  32. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    In the first Court of Appeals decision to address this issue, Summers vs. Altarum Institute Corp., No. 13-1645 (4th Cir. January 23, 2014), the United States Court of Appeals For The Fourth Circuit (“Fourth Circuit”) held that after the 2008 Americans with Disabilities Act Amendments Act (“ADAAA”), the ADA now protect persons with temporary disabilities which are “severe.”
     
  33. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    If it is a campus more consistent with what we would consider more like a college, they have more than one administrative office. I'd put satelite sign in's there.
     
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  34. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    To be clear, for me the burden is not the walk. I walk to the office a time or two most days, but I do it when students are not present in my room or when I can find coverage for a while. In the scenario we are discussing here, signing in at the beginning of the school day is problematic for reasons I discussed earlier. The burden is me not being able to provide the support and resources my students need when my room is freely accessible, which for most of them is first thing in the morning before their classes begin. Please stop with the implications that laziness is the driving factor behind not wanting a sign-in sheet. As several people have mentioned, there are other reasons that people might push back against such monitoring, including impact on students, admin retaliation for not working far beyond contract hours, inaccessibility of paperwork, unauthorized personnel having a hand in teacher evaluations, impact on teacher morale, et al.
     
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  35. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    ...which would mean that it likely would not cover a condition such as irritation of a surgical site.
     
  36. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    In general, I agree with this. However, many teachers, particularly those who belong to strong unions, make a big deal about being asked to do anything outside of their contract hours. We can't have it both ways. Either we're salaried professionals who work when we're needed, even if it falls outside of contract hours, or we're contracted staff who happen to receive a salary but work only certain hours - no more, no less, and signing in is, therefore, reasonable. This is a big problem that I have with unions because, personally, I agree with your perspective, but unions tend to see it from the opposite stance.

    This sounds like another one of those "people without kids just don't get it" comments, and I think most of those comments are pretty insulting to those without kids. Whether you have kids or not should not impact your professional employment. It's a choice to have children and to then have to deal with the consequences of having children. People with children don't get a pass on certain job responsibilities simply because they have to take care of their kids. If you can't drop off at daycare early enough to complete the duties of your employment, then you either need to find another childcare provider or change jobs.

    What about those people who I, as a fellow teacher, see come in late every day but the principal never realizes that they're late? The ones who show up late because they know they can get away with it because the principal won't notice, and they know that I'll cover their class for them? We have a few of these people in my school. A team member of mine is late any chance she can be... She knows that she can be late because the rest of us will be there to watch her students (we all greet our students in the gym). And she knows that none of us want to tattle on her like a child would. The principal has no idea she's late as often as she is because he's located in a different part of the building at that time. Should we tattle? Should we let her get away with it? Hoping the principal will deal with it individually just isn't going to happen because he's never around to see that it's a problem.

    I'm not advocating for a sign-in sheet to track tardiness, because, I agree, they can demoralize staff who do show up on time, all the time. But, I do think that they can serve a purpose beyond emergencies (although that is quite an important reason, as well.).
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  37. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    My problem would be that I get there much earlier than office staff. If a sign in book was locked up, I wouldn't be signed in at the correct time. I'd probably start getting to school later so my sign in time was accurate and wouldn't get started on something in my room and forget to go back when the sign in sheet was available.

    I've had to sign in before but the office was unlocked at 6 am so it was open when I got there. That was the only access point for the building and we didn't have keys so I didn't have to make a special trip.
     
  38. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    What you're suggesting here is that the "duties of my employment" require me to arrive at work earlier than my contract stipulates. I think that those things are actually mutually exclusive or at least not compatible with each other. My contract lays out the duties of my employment and includes contracted work hours. What you're saying here is that because I have kids I'm asking for a "pass" to get out of arriving to work early, before I'm required to be there. Huh? Kids or no kids, I am not professionally obligated to arrive at work early. If school implements some policy or procedure that requires me to arrive early, then that policy or procedure seems like a pretty clear contract violation to me. If there is some duty or task that I must do and it must be done while at school, then it needs to be accessible to me while I am at school.

    Let me also be crystal clear. I have never, never, never used my children as an excuse to get out of my professional responsibilities. What I said was specifically related to arriving to school exceptionally early, which is much easier to do without children. Because I have children who attend a daycare that opens at a particular time, I can no longer head to school an hour or more before my contract time starts. Instead, the earliest I can arrive is about 10-15 minutes early. I always arrive on time and I never leave early except when I have permission from my admin (like for a doctor's appointment or something). I take extreme offense to any suggestion that I am not doing my job because I don't get to school at 4 in the morning or stay until 10 at night because I have kids. Seriously. That's a ridiculous expectation for anyone, regardless of the situation at home.
     
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  39. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    If it's not important enough to you to tattle, then you need to let it go. Why does it matter to you when anyone else arrives? Does it impact your job? If it does, then you need to tell somebody. If it doesn't, then let admin do their job and deal with it.
     
  40. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Your reply makes me think that you thought I was targeting you, specifically. I apologize if you thought so, as that wasn't the case. In fact, I don't think the post I quoted about having children was even your post. Regardless, what I stated was meant in a broad, general sense and not intended towards a specific individual.

    I 100% agree that no one should be expected to be at work before their contracted time. It wasn't my intention to suggest otherwise. If sign-in is an expectation of teachers, I would assume that there is time provided to do that sign-in before students begin arriving. Maybe I misunderstood the comment I quoted (as I reread it, I'm thinking that I may have...). What I thought it was saying was that it's difficult for parents of daycare-aged children to be at school on time... and that's what I was basing my response on. Oops.
     
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