Teacher Sign In

Discussion in 'General Education' started by TrademarkTer, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Do you have to sign in to work? For the past 15 years we have not had to sign in to work (I haven't been here all 15 of those years, but that's how long the old principal was here). This year we have a brand new principal, and he is instituting a sign-in sheet for teachers. It wouldn't be a big deal except teacher parking is the in the back of the school, and we have to walk all the way to the front of the school to sign in, which can be a nuisance when I have a million things to do before the kids arrive. Our school is large so walking to the front of the school and back takes at least 10 minutes. Additionally, it kind of feels like the message is we can't be trusted to come to work on time, whereas we never had issues with this under the old administration.
     
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  3. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    No sign in for us.
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    We don't have to sign in. I would also hate having to do this for the same reasons you mentioned. My time in the morning is limited and I basically have every minute scheduled. If I have to walk across campus just to sign in, it's going to mess up my plans. Arriving to school earlier is not an option because of daycare.
     
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  5. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I've had to sign in at two schools where I've worked. I did not have to sign in at the other two schools where I've worked.

    I agree that it signals that professionals can't be trusted, but it is necessary for a few who do take advantage. Given that your building is so large (10 minutes plus from one end to other?!?), I'd ask about having sign-in log located near multiple entrances, if possible. That seems like a reasonable compromise.
     
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  6. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    This. You shouldn't be punished because of room placement.
     
  7. Sab

    Sab Companion

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    I have to place a check mark by my name on a sign-in sheet every day, but it's not really a problem because the sheet is right by my mailbox, which I have to check every morning anyways.
     
  8. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Salaried employees having to sign in pisses me off. Really, really makes me furious. We don't have contracted hours in my state. You better believe any time weather interferes with instructional time, the district is quick to say that teachers should be doing XYZ during that time, working from home. Multiple Open Houses each year? "It's expected and your hours are based on OUR needs."We are told that we are expected to be at the school from 8-4 each day. But we are at the whim of the district for hours beyond that.

    Last year we had a short stint where teachers had to sign into a book kept in the front office by the school's secretary. So she could keep an eye on us. WTH??? I kept my cool but I (and I imagine many other teachers did as well) told my principal that if I had to sign in, I would do it precisely at 8 and I would leave every day at exactly 4. He could take me off of every committee that meets after school. Students could make up their tests in multiple sessions after school because I would be leaving exactly at four. I would not read or answer emails after four. He would have to have someone at the district level to declare that all of the teachers at my school do anything beyond those hours. I was not going to be babysat by the school secretary.

    I'm sure he did it to keep track of the slackers. But insulting the rest of us was not the way to approach it. It lasted for just a couple of weeks.
     
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  9. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    I do at my new school because the usual system of moving time cards is not available. I was kinda taken aback at first because I pictured hoards of people trying to sign in and out at the same time but that hasn't been the case. Plus my school is small and my classroom is right near the main office anyways.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Time cards? I don't think I've ever heard of teachers using those.
     
  11. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    I've never seen one, never mind use one. The only job I've ever had to sign in and out of was my first job--cashier in a drug store when I was 17.

    I should add, our subs do need to sign in and out, as do any visitors to our building.
     
  12. NewTeacher2016

    NewTeacher2016 Companion

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    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  13. MissScrimmage

    MissScrimmage Aficionado

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    Only our substitute teachers, clinicians and guests have to sign in. I am a consultant for the entire division and I sign in when I arrive at a school, but that is for safety (knowing who is in the building). Any staff member that is on contract in the building does not sign in and out.

    10 years ago, when I worked in a daycare, we had to initial our time sheet every day.
     
  14. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    We sign in, but not out. Signing in isn't seen as insulting, just how this site works. Only the front door is open, so the sheet is where we are entering anyway. We are supposed to sign out and back in if we leave during contracted hours, but not everyone does that.
     
  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Everything is not a personal attack. Signing in tells the school who is in the building. If there's an emergency, they have a list of everyone present. I would check what district policies were updated this summer and it may shed some light.

    Unless they ask you to scan in digitally with a fingerprint, it is not a tool to keep you honest. I've been in buildings where unfortunately, that honesty check was actually necessary.
     
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  16. MissyB

    MissyB Rookie

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    We only sign in for PD sessions that are outside of contract hours so they have a record of our attendance for payroll.

    My last district didn't make us sign in but the principal would watch when we came in on the cameras and write up only certain people if they came late. My new district does ask that we are there 15 minutes before the school day officially starts for kids but they trust us as professionals to not have any mandated hours and let us come and go within reasonable times. My school is tiny (only 4 teachers with combo classes) so it is pretty obvious when we're there and when we leave but I only stop in the office to check my mailbox and chat with our amazing secretary as I head to my room.
     
  17. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Ive been in buildings where you swipe id's and enter pin, and buildings with finger print sign in. Both were in urban schools.
     
  18. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Substitutes tell admin when someone is not there for the day. When I'm out for the day, my electronic request for a sub is my "call in." If we leave during our planning period, we are asked to sign out and let a neighboring teacher know. For safety reasons. I have zero problem with that. It is the signing into a book that the secretary controls so she can police our arrival and departure times that I have an issue with. It is the signing in where there is a witness so you won't be able to lie about your time that bothers me. If you don't trust me with my time, how the world are you trusting me to keep 150 kids safe throughout the day? If you think I might lie about coming in at 8 instead of 8:03, aren't you concerned about the falsehoods I am spreading to impressionable minds?

    Nope, signing in and out is a way for an administrator to reign in the bad employees without having to address anything face to face.
     
  19. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

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    We do not sign in and I wouldn't want to have to but our contracts do require employees to be treated equitably, so if we were having a problem on a large campus with certain people not showing up for work on time (we are required to be at work for specific hours by our contract) it might be difficult to prove and I could see the result being a District wide expectation that we sign in. Currently, this happens with sick leave. There are specific steps taken for all employees who miss a certain number of school days because the District has to be equitable in how it investigates sick leave, so the only way to legally distinguish between legitimate sick leave and abuse it to have all employees subject to the same processes.
     
  20. WarriorPrncss

    WarriorPrncss Companion

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    I've only ever had to sign in for PD.
     
  21. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I can see that aspect but the policy doesn't make the most sense. Why do we care if three teachers come into school five minutes late every day? That's fifteen minutes lost of work time each day, right? So let's instead have 140 teachers spend five minutes of their morning and another five minutes of their afternoon, walking to the front office to sign in/out. So now we have 1400 lost minutes of production. And you still have to speak to the late teachers if they show up late with this method.

    Maybe, just maybe, stand at the repeat offenders' doors and wait for them to arrive in the morning. Ten minutes one day to "catch" him coming in late. Two minutes to have a conversation about how it should never happen again. 30 minutes (maybe 36) of the principal's week spent actually doing his job (managing staff) versus 1400 minutes of teachers not getting to do theirs.
     
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  22. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I was referring to a potential lock down or evacuation. Knowing who needs to be accounted for when you may not have access to tech tools is important.

    I honestly don't think people are watching like you think they are. They look up at you while you are in the office. It would be rude not to.
     
  23. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

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    2ndTimeAround - So if an administrator was really just concerned that someone was late on occasion and felt that the person would actually show up on time if redirected, they would do exactly what you are suggesting. But if they were working with an employee who had not corrected behaviour when redirected in the past and they were actually trying to fire someone, implementing a sign in policy and documenting the lateness would be a very clear cut way to fire that person in my District. We've been told, the easiest way to get fired is to not show up on time or not show up for your duties as there is no debate on this - you either are or are not present for your job. So yes, it would waste 1400 minutes of production but if they were able to fire someone who they felt was ineffective and this person was 10 years into their career this way, it would also save the District 2 million dollars. Now if you work somewhere where removing a teacher is easy, then its totally unnecessary. Where I work removing someone for being ineffective in their role is quite difficult, but removing them for being late is pretty straight forward as long as you can prove that they were not being "targeted." That being said, my District has never resorted to making us sign in.
     
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  24. geoteacher

    geoteacher Habitué

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    We do not sign in. I haven't had to do that since I moved from a sub to full-time. However, if we need to leave the campus during the day (except during our lunch), we are asked to sign out and then back in at the office. That is so that they know where we are in the event of an emergency.
     
  25. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Well said, err written.
     
  26. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    We need to sign in for certain PD meetings, but that's it. Probably helps that we're a faculty of six teachers, two administrators, and one office manager.
     
  27. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Let's extend this example a little...

    I make about a dollar per minute at school. Let's assume that this is the average per-minute rate of all teachers at my school site, since I seem to be right in the middle when it comes to seniority among my colleagues. If teachers at a single school site waste 1,400 minutes per day, that is going to cost the district $1,400 per day in lost productivity, at a single school site. Annually, that's over $250,000 in lost productivity at a single school site. My district has around 350 schools, so this could potentially add up to over $90,000,000 in lost productivity across the district. That's almost a hundred million dollars per year completely wasted on nonsense signing in. And for what? So that the district can "catch" a handful of naughty teachers whose combined annual salaries might possibly approach a million bucks?
     
  28. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    No sign in / out, except for during school hours (i.e. if we leave during our lunch time) - and only so they know where we are should there be some emergency/issue.
     
  29. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    :yeahthat:

    Our district is not nearly as large as yours, but the logic still holds.
    The funny thing is many of the teachers in our school, myself included, arrive a solid half hour before the administration starts trickling in.
     
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  30. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I know they're watching. Our directive was to use the sign in book on the secretary's desk. It stays there. Not on the check-in desk for parents. Not on the volunteer's desk. Not on the desk by the copier. But a special place cleared just so she could watch us sign in. And if she wasn't at her desk, we had to wait for her to come back and get it out of her locked drawer. The purpose of it being there instead of the work room was so she could watch us and monitor the book. To make sure we weren't signing in for friends and/or lying about our time of arrival.

    I'm quite surprised you would post such a thing.
     
  31. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Perhaps I'm ignorant of fields, but it seems odd to me that salaried workers (such as teachers) would have to sign in. It seems... demeaning.
     
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  32. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Tackle your slackers on a case by case basis.
     
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  33. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    And/or (though not necessarily) perhaps a sign of an ineffective school/staff culture.
     
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  34. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Right? You should have a culture where teachers and staff are treated professionally, where teachers and staff are eager to come to work and give their best.

    If you really have to fuss over people entering the building, what else is toxic?
     
  35. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Sure, but what if my administration decides to use my sign in/clock in/whatever to compare my worthiness as a teacher to someone else? I hit my contract hours and I do a good job, but what if I don't stay as late as Mrs. Pinterest down the hall?
     
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  36. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

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    The math could break down in a number of ways that would make it worth it or not worth it for a District. If we have to sign in by start time, in my District I would say 1/2 the teachers arrive ahead of our official start time and 1/2 arrive at our start time. Assuming that teachers use the first 3 minutes of the official day productively (which probably isn't always 100% true), it would take no more than 3 minutes for any teacher to walk from the office to their classroom in my District so 1/2 the teachers waste 3 minutes, the other 1/2 waste 6 minutes. We have about 600 teachers, that is 2700 minutes per day which amounts to 8100 hours per year. So, to equal out, for every year they implemented this policy they would need to cut 6 years of a teacher. So really if you have a teacher who has 20 years left and your choices are find a legally effective way to fire them, keep them being ineffective in the classroom or create an alternative job for them that doesn't involve working directly with children, its a pretty cost effective approach. I don't think this is about firing someone for being 5 minutes late - its about finding a black and white way to fire a teacher who you don't want for less black and white reasons. I've seen my District do this - find a very straight forward way to fire someone when they want to fire them for something that is more difficult to prove

    A more cost effective approach to account for signing in could be to create a sign in system that only works from a District computer using your District log in that teachers have to sign into once they get into their classroom so that you know they are on time and no one loses any time walking to the office.
     
  37. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    Here's the thing, Always_Learning: it's not just about those hours, and a perfectly objective cost/benefit analysis.

    Take the reading log/no reading log + no requirements argument, as an example: by not having my kids filling out reading logs, they have more opportunity to read, and they may not just stop at the "required" amount. Some teachers may say that some kids will read a bit less (though I'd disagree, if implemented well) as a result. Perhaps you could calculate each of those. However, there's an additional, less tangible/numerical piece: their attitude towards reading. With no requirements, developing the love of reading, and not having to do silly paperwork along with it, there will hopefully be lasting effects throughout the years that are harder to measure.

    Similarly, if you were to implement a "sign in", the less tangible/numerical piece is the hit on the morale or staff culture. That's harder to measure, but certainly would contain some significant effect when all is added up. Perhaps slightly more turnover (costs), perhaps slightly less desire to work beyond basic requirements? There could be tons of unintended effects.
     
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  38. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    The point is, when you hire someone on salary--an agreed upon sum that isn't so tied to hours--having a sign-in is stupid. You already agreed to pay them to show up.
     
  39. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

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    MathMagic, I completely agree. It can have a negative impact on staff morale. My District has never implemented sign ins. It has however given us very clear expectations on what seems like really unnecessary things and then used those expectations to fire people who are completely ineffective. Certainly the people running a system have to consider it all: cost, lost productivity, morale when making the decision. For me personally, I am okay with following rules that seem mundane if it allows my District to remove people who should be removed. And yes they are a small number but really teachers who do things that are illegal or immoral make us all look bad and if it is easier for the District to fire someone for being late than I'm okay with it (the law in my Province identifies the hours teachers have to be in the building of their school). It isn't like they can fire someone for being late once. They have to show a pattern and meet pretty high standards (at least in Canada) to justify cause - it really is the District's choice which measure they use (lateness, persistently yelling at students, being abusive towards other staff, etc).
     
  40. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    This is ludicris. It assumes all time is productive. They are paying you regardless, so even by your argument, they are paying you for a service they want, walking to sign in.

    You can't actually add together chunks of time and act as if something meaningful would occur if you had it. Would any of you be happy if they gave you 4 10 minute preps instead of 1 40 minute prep?
     
  41. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I feel like perhaps the district should pay a little closer attention to its hiring practices if it has so many employees that need to be removed. Making small things unpleasant for the good teachers who do not need to be removed does not seem smart or especially effective. Monitor crappy teachers in another way. Put crappy teachers on a professional improvement plan that requires those individual teachers to sign in or be evaluated more closely in some other way. Why burden other teachers with admittedly unnecessary rules and regulations that don't apply to them?
     
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