TEACHER INSIGHT VENT :(

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by merigold78, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. I.D. Clair

    I.D. Clair Companion

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    Apr 23, 2008

    Is anybody else out there:huh:
     
  2. kmECSE

    kmECSE Rookie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I'm glad to see my state isn't the only one. EVERY district I applied for required this stupid test (11 districts). One of my friends student taught in a district where she was very well received and happy. Turns out they wouldn't interview her at all because of her scores on the Insight. They told her that she was locked out from reapplying for 2-3 years. She was told that they are looking for consistency (what the district told her). Therefore, when I took the test, I made sure that the 3-4 times they asked me the SAME question w/minor rewording, I answered the exact same way. I took it once last fall and had an interview, so I figured I must've done something right. They allow you to submit the same scores to all of the districts you apply to (not having to redo it each time) which was very nice.

    I guess I just don't see the point. Districts are turning away so many GREAT teachers when they rely on scores from a test like this. I'd love to see it banned :)
     
  3. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I'm sorry ID Clair. It's very frustrating. I haven't gotten any calls or anything yet so like you I don't even know if that stupid test has been a factor. Unfortunately for me, every district I've applied for so far requires it. It just doesn't seem fair to measure a person's ability to be a good teacher by this assessment.

    Just hang in there -- you may have to keep your mind open to other options that will help you in your ultimate goal. Good luck.
     
  4. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I've been doing the same but have no idea if those scores are good enough. I wish that they would at least send an e-mail letting you know that you did not meet their score standard or something.
     
  5. Yank7

    Yank7 Habitué

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    Apr 24, 2008

    This is crazy. WE are now deciding whether a person is a good teacher,not on past success, but on some silly test nobody knows anything about, or is able to interpret the results. Sounds like we will now have no teacher left behind based on the results of a ridiculous test. Welcome to education 2008!
     
  6. kmECSE

    kmECSE Rookie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I agree, some feedback would be nice!

    To answer one of the previous poster's questions...I'm a new grad (December) and we were never prepped for this. Told about it, yes. Prepared - not a chance!
     
  7. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Apr 24, 2008

    Teachling-

    Call your ACP person and ask them how your score was. I am sure their level of acceptance is probably lower than a district's but at least you may find out something.

    I talked to my ACP advisor about my job search this spring. I had her look over my resume "stuff" and she said she couldn't figure out why I wasn't hired already. I told her that I thought the fact that I was alt certified was part of the problem and she said no way (what else would she say). Then she sort of told me maybe I was a crappy sub. Nope, I'm not! Then I said something about that stupid Insight test and she checked my scores!! She told me that it was not the scores that were holding me back. She said they were very good.

    Unfortunately I had to retake the test this year for the district where I will be working. I just answered as honestly as I could and on some I just tried to figure out the answer. I guess I must have done okay.

    On that test, consistancy, student centered answers, and empathy are the name of the game.
     
  8. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Apr 24, 2008


    And this is an old test based off of 400 top teachers interviewed in the 1940's or 1960's. It is basically a computer version of the old Teacher Perceiver Interview.
     
  9. jw13

    jw13 Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I have taken the Teacher Profile test. You take it once online and it is attached to every online application you fill-out automatically. How do you know how you performed on these tests? I can't retake it for two years and if that is a factor in me being locked out, it essentially prevents me from getting a job anywhere I apply. Theoretically, isn't that like blacklisting?
     
  10. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Apr 24, 2008

    JW- I am sure you did fine on it. You are an awesome teacher.

    On a side note, people should be told whether something is preventing them from getting a job. Shouldn't you have the right to know if you can never get a job teaching because of a stupid test? If not it is like some cruel joke..."haha look at her she just keeps applying for nothing."
     
  11. jw13

    jw13 Groupie

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    That's my whole point. Are there a bunch of teachers out there "pounding the pavement", when they don't have a shot?
     
  12. Lives4Math

    Lives4Math Comrade

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    Apr 24, 2008

    Elizak83: It must be certain parts of VA because I applied in 4 or 5 counties and never had to take it. In fact, I've never even heard of it until now.
     
  13. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    My ACP(starting to ques their usefullness) told me that their score rating is most likely less than a district's & that was the extend of it. But consider this, a friend of mine took the test around the same time I did & failed. Our ACP told her that she wasn't eligible for the program since she was seeking EC-4 gen not high need area. In order to stay on the program, she would have to have a job offer. So I'm contemplating that if I was seeking the certification EC-4 rather than EC-4 Bilingual would I have passed? Oh, and to make it more confusing, the ACP told her that her scores were good enough for 4-8 gen (need exam).

    As to districts not hiring ACP candidate, I learned recently that it has to do with federal mandate --NCLB. There is a tier sequence districts are force to follow & ACP are in the bottom tier. I didn't learn this through my own ACP. I learned this through another ACP. How convenient that they don't caution you about how the system works! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Kangaroo22

    Kangaroo22 Virtuoso

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    Apr 24, 2008

    There is only one district that I know of around here that uses the Teacher Insight Test and I think they just recently started using it. I took it last week and it does seem like they are trying to trip you up by asking the same question different ways a lot of times.
     
  15. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    I have never heard of a hiring tier. I just thought it was something they did as a preference. I thought I would pass this on to you.
    Sorry about the thread hijack:hijack:

    Texas ACP and NCLB Highly Qualified status--

    However, a degreed individual who holds a probationary certificate, and is participating in an acceptable alternate route to certification program, including Special Education programs, may be considered “fully certified” under the “highly qualified” requirements. This individual may or may not be considered “highly qualified”, (see question 32 below).

    32. When can a teacher (intern) participating in an alternative route to certification/ACP program be considered “highly qualified”?

    Teachers in ACP programs may be considered to be highly qualified during the internship year if the teacher meets the following three requirements.

    a.
    Teachers, including special education teachers in ACP programs, who are not yet fully certified may be considered to meet the certification requirements in the NCLB definition of a highly qualified teacher if they are participating in an SBEC-approved alternative route to certification program under which they:
    (1)
    receive, before and while teaching, high-quality professional development that is sustained, intensive, and classroom-focused in order to have a positive and lasting impact on classroom instruction before and while teaching;
    (2)
    participate in a program of intensive supervision that consists of structured guidance and regular ongoing support for teachers, or a teacher mentoring program;
    (3)
    assume functions as a teacher only for a specified period of time not to exceed three years; and
    (4)
    demonstrate satisfactory progress toward full certification as prescribed by state statute.​
    b.
    Holds a minimum of a bachelor’s degree; and
    c.
    Has demonstrated subject matter competency in each of the academic subjects in which the teacher is assigned to teach, in a manner determined by TEA and in compliance with Section 9101(23) of ESEA.
    (1)
    For new elementary ACP interns, this would be demonstrated by passing a rigorous State test of subject knowledge and teaching skills in reading, writing, mathematics,
    Division of NCLB Program Coordination 25 Texas Education Agency
    and other areas of the basic elementary school curriculum (which consists of passing a TExES certification exam or tests in reading, writing, mathematics, and other areas of the basic elementary school curriculum.)
    (2)
    For new secondary ACP interns, this would be either passing the appropriate TExES exam or having an academic major or graduate degree or the coursework equivalent to an undergraduate academic major [i.e., 24 semester hours, with 12 of the hours being upper-division (junior- or senior-level) courses] in the core academic subject areas in which they teach.​
    LEAs must ensure, through the state’s certification process, that these provisions are met [Section 200.56 of the Title I regulations, December 2, 2002] within three years. If the teacher does not complete the alternative certification program within the three year period and become fully certified, the teacher is no longer considered to be highly qualified.Division
     
  16. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    Lemon, now I am wanting to research this more. From what I was told from an administrator is that the selection process has to be according to what I mentioned above because of the law. Here's something else that may be seperate from this but makes me think about the "perception of status". As a bilingual probationary teacher, I am finding out that districts will not award stipends until you are considered fully certified. Side note: Most district will offer some sort of stipend to bilingual teachers. Maybe a seperate issue but it makes it confusing.
     
  17. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    I also remember something you mentioned in a seperate thread regarding substitue teacher pay being lower for not being consider "fully certified". So it may be that districts are the ones that take this stance.
     
  18. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Apr 24, 2008

    For the sake of NCLB, teachers who are interns in an ACP can still be considered "fully certified". However, you would never be in a position to have a probationary certificate and be subbing. You don't get your probationary cert until you are in your first year as a teacher of record. So three weeks ago, I had nothing. Now that I have been offered a job, I have applied for my probationary cert but I don't believe it starts until the school year. So subbing pay is separate from the NCLB status, the sped stipend might not be though.
     
  19. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    Interesting thing about the "probationary" seems like principals don't know about this base on my interviews with them this past Saturday even after I explicitly (sp?) mentioned it & they read it on my resume. I did'nt know about you not being able to apply for it till you had a teaching job. I have a letter from my ACP that says I am eligible for one but they forgot to mention that part --- why am I not surprise?

    Lemon, districts I've looked into will not offer the stipend till I pass the 'probationary' status period. Disappointing but I'll roll with the punches on this.
     
  20. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 24, 2008

    Getting back to the teacher insight, I would like to know your take or info regarding how you can fail in one grade group but pass in another. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
     
  21. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Oh, they will take a lower grade in high needs area than they will in elementary because there is a smaller talent pool in high needs.

    If you get a low grade on it and are an elementary teacher, you may never get hired in a district since the competition is so stiff. Therefore, the ACP will not get your money.
     
  22. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

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    Apr 24, 2008

    This test sounds dicey from a legal point of view. I am NOT a lawyer, but it seems like some "score" that follows you and you don't get to know that has zero flexibility - that sounds unfair.
     
  23. curious

    curious Companion

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    Apr 25, 2008

    After reading this thread, I am disgusted to learn that the Teacher Insight assessment is used as a preliminary tool to weed out applicants. I'm in an area where the job market for teachers is extremely tight. I applied for the one lonely teaching position open in my area recently, but now I'm wondering if I wasted my time filling out the long online application because of that multiple choice test. I tried to find out if my Teacher Insight score was acceptable, but Gallup refuses to release any information. For a profession that is supposed to value growth through learning, why keep the score a secret?
     
  24. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    Apr 25, 2008

    It is unfair yet they are allow to do this. This test doesn't factor everything. My friend who failed that test has tons of experience working with children. She was an aupair for more than 5 yrs & does substitue teaching. She's a very caring, giving person who loves to work with children. English is not her first language & she seems to think that it was a factor in how she interpreted the questions. Though, I don't think that it matters because this test appears to be flawed.
     
  25. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Well and the questions are basically the same questions worded differently so you have to make sure that you answer them the same, but you don't always know they're asking the same thing nor do you have the time to make sure you are b/c of the time limit.

    I think this test is the one reason why one district hasn't ever called me. Its the only district that uses this test in the districts I've applied in, and the only one that hasn't called me to interview.
     
  26. buck8teacher

    buck8teacher Devotee

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    I know my score at one point was high enough to get an interview in a district I applied in. Honestly, the principal hadn't even looked at the rest of my electronic application, just my score, so I could be scheduled for an interview. I haven't a clue what it is now. It's just so hard to put your career in the hands of a silly test.
     
  27. jw13

    jw13 Groupie

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    How do you find out your score and whether or not it is preventing you from getting an interview or hired?
     
  28. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    I would think that would be a factor. Look at this question that you are supposed to answer on a strongly agree to strongly disagree scale:

    It is not true that I am a very competitive person.
     
  29. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    And you have 20 seconds to answer it!
     
  30. buck8teacher

    buck8teacher Devotee

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    I don't know my actual score, the principal just mentioned it during my interview last year. It was my first interview ever and I was taking it all in. I think you can get it from gallop, but I do know that different districts require different scores.
     
  31. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Apr 25, 2008

    I'm fluent in English ;) and I had a hard time deciphering this question. But you could say:

    It is false that I am a very competive person.
     
  32. merigold78

    merigold78 Cohort

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    Apr 26, 2008

    i cannot believe how many people have responded to this post! since i started the whole crazy thing :), i figured i would post again. let's keep the momentum going (ha-ha)!! :)

    i still think the teacher insight is a complete and total joke. as mentioned in my original post, i have taught for five years in the most ghetto fabulous schools....and been EXTREMELY successful. it is literally a big joke that this basically means nothing to some districts. all they are looking for is a score. a score that will supposedly determine my likelihood to succeed or fail as a teacher.

    i have decided to try and get a job in a district that doesn't use this inaccurate assessment. after asking around, i have found several places (districts) that have not gotten on the ridiculous bandwagon - yet. the funny thing is that all of this has really affected me, more than i initially recognized. i took a grad. admissions test this morning....and was totally freakin' out beforehand. thank you teacher insight for my newfound test anxiety.

    anyhoo, i am keeping my fingers crossed and praying that this stupid tests disappears SOON. have a great weekend, everyone!


    Meri
     
  33. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Apr 26, 2008

    Good luck, meri, I hope that everything works out!
     
  34. Briana008

    Briana008 Companion

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    Wow, I took this teacher insight test for one of the districts I applied to and I didn't even realize it was actually a scored test until I read this thread (since you are apparently never given your score)! :huh: I agree that it is not at all a good way to determine how effective you are as a teacher. However, I don't think this particular district was weeding out candidates with it; I was called in for an interview (and offered a job) by a principal who didn't even know whether or not I had taken it. For her, at least, it seemed like just a formality to complete the application rather than a qualifying exam. It is really sad that other districts don't treat it that way...

    ~Briana~
     
  35. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Apr 26, 2008

    I wonder what they do if have an "in" with the district and do horribly on this test? Say you are a relative to the superintendent, then what?
     
  36. merigold78

    merigold78 Cohort

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    Apr 26, 2008

    lemon,

    that's kind of what happened to me. my interviewer was a friend of the family. i contacted him about my interest in the district....and next thing i knew i had an interview.

    the sad thing is that i know i did well during the interview - he told me this! but apparently scores count more than face-to-face interaction. i am maintaining a very small amount of hope :) that i may get a call back anyway, though chances are i won't. the whole situation is just very discouraging and silly.

    job searching is soooooo much fun! can i please do this for 5 more years????!!!!


    Meri
     
  37. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Apr 26, 2008

    And then you wonder why they can't find and keep decent teachers. Sorry, I'm all negative recently. I'm sorry to hear your troubles. I hope things start looking up soon.
     
  38. merigold78

    merigold78 Cohort

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    Apr 26, 2008

    thanks mmswm.

    perhaps one day school administrators will get smart and stop looking so much at test scores. to steal someone else's line, it seems like we're creating standardized kids AND teachers. and that is just really sad.....


    Meri
     
  39. Fairborn

    Fairborn Rookie

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    Apr 27, 2008

    teacher tests

    Hi guys,

    As a person seeking my first job, I, too, am frusted with these tests. One is the Gallup test that was mentioned and one is called TeacherVision. They both are of the same ilk. I don't think you can retake the test even if they are for different districts. I may be wrong, but I think I looked into that. Anyway, I went on a sort of gut reaction to the question because if I studied it too long, I could read all sorts of different things into it and I began trying to answer the question "correctly" for a hiring process. I haven't heard from anyone yet and would love to find out how I scored. Who did people contact within the district and/or test company to get that information?
     
  40. merigold78

    merigold78 Cohort

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    Apr 27, 2008

    i called gallup approx. 1 year ago for my score. they did give me this, but w/little to no explanation as to what it meant, how i did, etc. basically i was given my number and told that most districts start w/candidates who score the highest. i asked what a "high" score would be and did not get a straight answer. the person simply reiterated that districts usually begin w/candidates that have the highest scores.

    for my latest interview, i contacted the person who interviewed me (head of curri. & instruction). he did not give me an actual score, but started mine was not high enough to meet their standards. this after a good interview - puzzling.......

    i hope this info. is helpful to you and everyone else still looking. good luck! :)


    Meri
     

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