Superior Court of california will not leave me alone!

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by oldstudent, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 1, 2011

    What is it with these people!

    I explained to them about four times in the last year that as a Substitute teacher that makes only $20,000 per year and no benefits, that I simply cannot afford to lose $125 a day to serve on a jury unless it is in the summer or on a break.

    At least last year, they gave me a December 20 date during Winter break after I requested a change from September. I served at this time, but did not have to report.

    Four months later, however, I got another summons. I sent it back with a note stating that 12 months had not passed yet, which is their rule. You are told they will not summon you for another 12 months.
    Then four months later, I get another summons. I told them the same thing.
    Now, they sent me a third summons in the last eight months, telling me that my request had been denied and I that I must report on October 24.
    Do these idiots really think I can be a clear headed juror while I am losing 125 dollars a day? I don't get it.

    I will have my doctor write a note telling them that I am unable to serve. The note will not be a lie, I will be too emotionally upset to concentrate on any case due both to anger and financial stress.

    This would be a disservice to both my fellow jurors and the accused, but I guess they don't care.

    My doctor should agree to writing a note, but I would welcome any suggestions as to what he should include to increase my chances of being excused.

    I am diabetic, so this should help.

    The summons already says my excuse for not serving has already been denied ,so my back is against the wall.

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
     
  2.  
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 1, 2011

    Do your civic duty and just be done with it.
     
  4. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 1, 2011

    Easy to say when the shoe is on the other foot?

    How will I pay my rent and my bills?

    And of course, I served my civic duty less than eight months ago.

    They are breaking their own policy.
     
  5. KateL

    KateL Habitué

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 1, 2011

    What about people who work minimum wage jobs? Should only independently wealthy people serve on juries?

    From http://www.courts.ca.gov/3953.htm
    Why do I always get summoned but other people don't?
    Selection is random. If you have already responded to a summons or have served in the past 12 months, contact your local jury office. Explain to the staff person that you have been summoned twice in 12 months. It is important for you to contact the court to resolve the problem.
     
  6. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    124

    Aug 1, 2011

    I'm probably not the person to be commenting on this since I just found out I may be on a 10 day trial and won't get the $15 a day because I'm a teacher on summer vacation.

    You keep getting summoned, it looks like, because you keep postponing your service. If you did not report, as you said, you did not serve.

    You only get so many postponements.
     
  7. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 1, 2011

    According to their summons, if you call in every day you are required to, you have fulfilled your service, even if you do not actually report.
    Therefore, according to their own policy, I have served.

    Maybe this time I will send the form and a letter back to the local courthouse I am required to call ,rather than the county P.O Box.
     
  8. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,834
    Likes Received:
    145

    Aug 2, 2011

    What a coincidence that you posted this today. I got a summons for JD in the mail TODAY! I like JD myself. Last time I served was in spring, 2007 on a 2-month long case that lasted the last 2 mos of the school yr. Fortunately, that particular yr was the ONLY yr I wasn't a sub since 1st becoming a sub in 1999, so I was happy to get my full teacher salary while having fun on JD...& no, I'm not kidding. Those 2 mos were one of the best times in my life.

    Nowadays, I'm hoping to get hired for a (non-teaching) school job & most of the districts I applied for start in the same wk as my date to appear. Will I try to postpone it? Probably not.
     
  9. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 2, 2011

    I really do feel for you. It's upsets me to think of all those who must serve and possibly face major financial consequences. :(
     
  10. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2011

    That sucks. I just got summoned, but I was exempt since I have babies I take care of full time. Had to go to notary to make it official.
     
  11. txmomteacher2

    txmomteacher2 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    152

    Aug 2, 2011

    I got a jury summons last year. Spent the day and did not get picked. Got paid like 7 bucks and had to give it to the school district. My lunch cost more than the check I got.
     
  12. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2011

    I have decided not to take the doctor note route, but to write a detailed letter to the courthouse I am to serve at.
    Another baffling circumstance is the courthouse they chose for me.

    They gave me the 4th closest courthouse to my home which is 15 miles away.

    I might just suck it up if I was guaranteed two days or fewer, but there are no guarentees.

    I am sure I sound stubborn to some,
    but I also pay $447 per month for medical insurance, which I need to treat diabetes, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure.

    So a trial that lasts more than a couple weeks could quite literally be a death sentence.

    I wonder how much the fine is for not reporting?
     
  13. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,800
    Likes Received:
    173

    Aug 3, 2011

    I would just do it. I think it's a good idea not doing the doctor note if you are healthy. Be honest and do your part.
     
  14. creativemonster

    creativemonster Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    111

    Aug 3, 2011

    There should be a number to call to find out why you are being called twice within the same year when you already served. Did I read that wrong? It does not matter if you weren't picked back in December - They should not request you again until twelve months later. They requested me for another go round a few months after my last time in but when I called their attention to it they said oops sorry. Good luck.
     
  15. jcar03

    jcar03 Companion

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 3, 2011

  16. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,834
    Likes Received:
    145

    Aug 3, 2011

    I assume if the courthouse is 15 miles away, you don't have to tk the fwy. I know someone who had to appear to a courthouse quite far & she wrote the excuse that she has a phobia of driving fwys & can't do it. They excused her.

    Isn't there an excusal choice on there where you can fill in the bubble stating that you don't have reliable transportation? They can't prove anything like that. For all they know, your car has broken down & you can't fix it yet. I know someone else who marked that as their reason.
     
  17. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    57

    Aug 3, 2011

    There is almost a always a financial hardship form.

    But, I think this is relevant here:

    Did anyone hear recently about the Georgia woman convinced of vehicular manslaughter because a hit and run driver killed her child? She was found at fault because she didn't cross at a designated cross walk. Her bus let them off across the street from her apartment building, but the nearest designated cross point was half a mile away. People routinely crossed at that point. Have you ever carried groceries and a few kids along a busy highway (no sidewalks) a mile out of your way? She was convicted by a white middle class jury, not one of whom had ever ridden a bus in the city.
    http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/sto...time-than-hit-and/uhLvn6ffFkaAW0gJcClEXw.cspx

    Cases like that make it extra important for as wide a cross-section of the populace as possible to serve.
     
  18. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2011

    I've been called to local JD three times. The first time, I worked part-time as a dishwasher in a restaurant. I got picked for the jury and spent the last half of that week serving on the jury. The second time I was called, I accidentally ignored the summons because I thought it was a request for donations to the police fraternity. I didn't know I had been called for JD until a coworker told me the next day the bailiff was calling my name and asking for me. I called the Clerk of Courts office the next day and explained why I had not come to the courthouse the day before. They accepted my explanation and said they didn't need me to report because they had enough jurors for the week. The last time I was called, I sat in the courtroom all day on Monday, but never got called to the jury box.

    Oh, I actually got called a fourth time, but the trial concerned a major case of child abuse. As soon as the defense lawyer found out I was a single father of three, I was excused from the jury.

    When I was in college, I got called for Federal Court JD. I explained to the judge that I was a full-time college student (this was in March) and I also had a note from my doctor explaining I could not serve due to my Chron's disease being active. The judge said that he would have just postponed my service until the summer for the college excuse, but he excused me permanently (at that time) due to my chronic illness.

    As for serving and the money paid, our local court only pays something like $10/day. I don't know of a single court that pays anywhere close to what people actually make on their regular jobs, so any person called to jury duty could claim it would be a financial hardship.....even someone working minimum wage. The fact is you would make more at your regular job, regardless of what it is. But many people feel, myself included, that it IS their civic duty to serve if called and to be as neutral and objective as possible if chosen for the jury.

    When the lawyers asked if I could be objective in the child abuse case, I told them I felt that I could. Looking back, I realize the truth was that it would have been nearly impossible for me to be completely objective with three young boys of my own. Fortunately, the defense attorney realized the same thing and used one of his exclusions to kick me off.

    As for the OP, I agree the best course of action would be to contact the Clerk of Court office and simply explain you DID get called to serve in December. That should take care of it, at least until this December.
     
  19. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 3, 2011

    I think someone with a minimum wage job would be hit even harder if they were required to serve and miss work. I realize it's our civic duty, I really do, but I also realize that for the majority of people homes aren't free, groceries aren't free, gas isn't free, and so forth. It just makes me sad that they have to endure such hardship.

    Ms.I, that's interesting about the freeway. I also have a big phobia of driving on the interstate and I've never done it. Merging?! That crap is scary! I realize most people don't even consider it, but it's very frightning to me. I worry about being called to federal court.

    Our local courthouse is just a few miles away (fifteen miles, by the way, doesn't seem far at all to me), so serving locally wouldn't be an issue.
     
  20. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    57

    Aug 3, 2011

    I don't think it is that difficult to prove financial hardship. A letter might even suffice in some places. I know people who will claim hardship when really it just means saving an extra month or two for their expensive vacation or an inconvenience. When I used to sub, I worked with an IA who was nearly in tears about getting out of jury duty for hardship reasons. She was a fairly new citizen and really wanted to do it but had a daughter to take care of and couldn't afford the lost pay. She was hourly with no benefits, so it would have been a big hit.
     
  21. jteachette

    jteachette Comrade

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2011

    Call the clerk of courts and tell that person what is going on(called 4 times in a year). I get a notice every time I'm eligible too, but here it's only once every 4 years.
     
  22. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,007
    Likes Received:
    12

    Aug 3, 2011

    As a sub you are an independent contractor? You don't work, you don't get paid.
    Using that thought you may be able to cite a hardship rule
     
  23. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 4, 2011

    In the past, I have detailed my financial hardship, and was denied.

    However, they did postpone my service from an October date to December 20.
    Whether I got this winter break date because I am lucky, or someone down at the courthouse actually has a soul, I do not know, but since I had two weeks with no work anyway, I took my chances and served.

    Then in April, I get another summons. This time my emphasis for being excused was that it had only been four months. This is what I wrote to them, although I also repeated my financial hardship spiel as well.

    Then in June, I get another summons. In Hindsight, I should have just accepted the summons since it was summer. But since it had still only been six months since I had served, I wrote them again, stating that 12 months had not passed yet.

    Now, I get a summons for October 24, and the summons says my reason for an excuse was denied, and I must serve on october 24.

    I will again write a detailed plea to the courthouse and see what happens.

    I just don't understand why the courts want me so desperately.

    The bottom line is that in California, it does not matter to them how severe a financial hardship one has, they will still make you serve.
    The best you can hope for is a postponement.

    My postponement has been used up, even though I should have never been summoned yet in the first place.
     
  24. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 4, 2011

    I would either call or go to the Clerk of Court office in person rather than writing another letter. That hasn't worked so far, so there is no reason to think it will work now.

    Since it has been shown that anyone could claim a financial hardship, I doubt that plea will have any effect. You're best bet is to show you were called - and offered to serve - in December and that you should NOT have been summoned again until this December. Hopefully, that will get it straightened out.

    If not, it sounds like you're stuck with the October date. They have given you the maximum number of postponements (at your request) and (in hindsight), you would have been better off just answering the summons during the summer instead of continuing to fight it on principle.

    Get in touch directly with the CoC office, explain that the April summons came only 4 months after you did agree to serve and that you should not have been summoned again until at least December of this year. If it all works out, they will release you from the October date (and may even begin the NEXT 12 month countdown then rather than last December). Otherwise, maybe they will agree to one more postponement - due to the special circumstances - and allow you to wait until December again.

    Failing that, you will probably just have to accept the October date and hope you don't get chosen to actually serve. In that case, you would only lose the first day of JD.

    It isn't a perfect solution, but it isn't any better for any of the other people that have been summoned either. Every one of them will also be losing money when they answer the summons as well.
     
  25. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,834
    Likes Received:
    145

    Aug 4, 2011

    The person I know who used that as an excuse isn't REALLY afraid of fwys, but she put that. I do know another lady though that NEVER drives fwys.

    I also know someone else who stated they have incontinence, which is half true & that person got excused.
     
  26. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    5

    Aug 4, 2011

    I don't know how it works in CA, but in at least some states, the period of time between summons starts at the date of the original summons. If CA is one of those states, then they're right. You can be called because even though you didn't serve until December, you were originally summoned in October, which means you're eligible to be summoned again this October, as the 12 months have, in fact, passed.
     
  27. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 5, 2011

    This might be the case, although my first summons from last year before postponement was in either September or October, and my first new summons was in April, so there was still only a gap of seven months between both original summons.

    Of course, this fact might not help me, but both the original and the follow up summons arrived under 12 months. Now the 3rd summons comes 12 months later(10 months from when I actually served), and they deny me further postponements.


    I will implement Cerek's idea if I am denied again, but I want to write the letter first.
    If I go to the courthouse in person, it is an all or nothing gamble. If they tell me I still need to serve in October, that is it. I have no recourse.
    If however, they receive a letter, they will send me another summons, and it is possible the next summons will be at the requested December date.
    If not, I still have another card to play, which is an in person visit.

    If I go to the courthouse now, I have no more cards.
     
  28. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    19

    Aug 5, 2011

    I was in a jury pool where someone asked to be excused for being agoraphobic. The judge asked him if he was employed, the answer was yes, so he didn't excuse him. I think the only hardships allowed in California are child care and elder care issues.
     
  29. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 5, 2011

    I've been thinking about this a lot in the recent days. If it really is impossible or near impossible to be excused due to financial hardship in some states, I have an extremely difficult time with accepting the whole "suck it up because it's your civic duty". Serving could financially *ruin* individuals and families. If chosen, you could be out of work for days, weeks, or longer. No money. Minus the few dollars they toss your way, which honestly I don't even understand. So you miss your rent payment, you skimp on groceries...you make these sacrifices because that's the price you pay for living in this country? Seems criminal to me, actually.

    I think of my family. If my brother had to serve he could still be payed because it's a family farm, but my dad is supposed to do the work of two people? Scratch that. He already does. So my dad is supposed to do the work of four people while my brother is in town? There are not enough hours in the day to accomplish everything. It's difficult enough when my brother wants to take a single vacation day.

    And there are thousands of other similar situations.

    Here, my brother would be excused. Just like my husband was when he explained forty percent of his income would be lost. A few days with that loss, okay. But weeks, months? You know most everyone at the courthouse here and they know your situation or at least know enough to trust you, but if it really isn't the same elsewhere...it just upsets me. To accept childcare and eldercare as the only reasons for not being able to serve blows my mind.
     
  30. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 5, 2011

    How many trials last more than a couple of days?

    When you go for jury duty, there's always a written questionnaire and usually an interview if you're chosen past the questionnaire. I think that there's numerous opportunities to say that it would be a financial hardship to serve if the case is projected to be a long one. For a day-long case? Seriously. Suck it up and deal with it. I have a hard time believing, though I suppose it is possible, that a substitute works literally every single school day without exception. Spending a day at jury duty would be like missing a day of school, which is bound to happen from time to time.

    For families who are so close to the edge, there are many forms of assistance available to help with the expenses of day to day life, even on a short-term basis.

    I'm sorry to sound uncaring, and I'm sure that I do, but there comes a point at which people need to just do what is expected of them. We citizens of this country enjoy many benefits including free schools, safe roads, access to 911, and part of the trade-off is that we are expected to do our civic duty on the very rare occasions when they ask us to.
     
  31. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 5, 2011

    One, from what I've read, it seems that some states are unwilling to hear about financial hardships. That's my point.

    Two, as I already said, I'm not talking about a single day here. Although I know plenty of people who served much longer than a day and I didn't realize one or two was such the norm. My father-in-law and cousin were sequestered for over two weeks and put up in the one shady hotel in the county. So it obviously happens, and I'm obviously speaking to the more demanding situations.
     
  32. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 5, 2011

    States may be unwilling to hear about financial hardships as an immediate disqualifier, but I betcha that attorneys will consider it.

    If you're being interviewed by both attorneys for a long case and you say to them, "I'm worried about being able to pay my rent if I'm stuck on this case for very long. Honestly, I'm going to be ****** if I get chosen to serve on this jury, and I can't promise that I'll give you all my full attention since I'll be so worried about my family's finances," that they'll pick you? I'm willing to bet that they'll dismiss you right there. It's at least worth a shot and better than winding up in jail or having to pay a fine for failing to appear for jury duty.
     
  33. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 5, 2011

    Besides that, you can't know until you go how long the case is going to be. Most people don't even get chosen. The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that you either won't get chosen or that you'll serve on a case that lasts a day or two. It seems much easier to me to just deal with it and serve, especially over the summer time (!!!!!), than to complain and argue with the court system.
     
  34. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2011

    I work about 85-90% of the time.

    However, of the days I do miss, about 80% of those are either the first couple weeks of school, or the last week.
    Therefore, from the end of Sempember to the middle of June, I work about 95% of the time.

    Are the courts so desperately in need of me on October 24 that they cannot let me serve during any of the other 65 or so work days when I am not working anyway?

    My being denied postponement, and them not owning up to their mistake, raises questions about the competence and/or moral fabric of the court system that goes beyond my individual case.

    If given a choice, even from their perspective, allowing me to serve at a time that would not cause hardship is merely common sense, since this would increase their chances of having a clear minded juror.

    Can't those who would force me to serve grasp that I could be a more fair and just juror if I was not worrying about paying my bills or my rent?
    Don't they understand that attorneys, judges, plaintiffs, and defendants would not want stressed out jurors who might not be thinking clearly because there are other concerns?

    In short, isn't it more fair to everyone involved in a case to allow me to serve one of the other 65 days?

    It is true that I might only be away for three days or less. If I knew this for sure, I probably would just "suck it up"

    However, I have frequently subbed for teachers who were on jury duty for at least 10 days, so a long summons is not out of the question.
    Furthermore, I am required to call in for five days.
    Therefore, even if I get excused from a case, I might not be excused until the 5th day.
    Then, if I still get on a short case at this time, we are still talking eight total days or more.

    If forced to serve, I will, but I hope my letter can knock some common sense into them.
    My greatest, and most essential challenge, is to sound polite.

    Here in California, I believe that one needs to earn less than about $12,000 per year to obtain welfare benefits, so only a three month case, heaven forbid, would qualify me.
     
  35. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Aug 8, 2011

    I guess you should have done it in the summer when you had the chance, then. Good luck to you.
     
  36. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    147

    Aug 8, 2011

    When my Dad served the lawyers were not very intelligent and didn't ask the right questions. My Dad is an attorney and no defense lawyer in their right mind would want him on a jury! However, no one bothered to ask about occupations so he wound up on a drunk driving case. I think it lasted 3 days. The guy was pretty clearly driving drunk. Multiple witnesses, BAC, etc... Not even sure why he wanted to go to trial.

    On the flip side, another girl I know was on a trial for 3 months :eek: Pretty much all through summer vacation!
     
  37. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    17,362
    Likes Received:
    46

    Aug 8, 2011

    I don't think the people who are in charge of the summons is aware of everyone's occupation and when it would be convenient for everyone to serve. I'm pretty sure it is computer generated.
     
  38. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2011

    Yes, you are right!

    I was stubborn to give in to them because I felt they were either intentionally breaking their own 12 month policy, or, had more likely made a mistake.
    This is one of the many details I have outlined in my three page rebuttal to my summons ( not the intentional mistake part of course).
     
  39. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2011

    On the summons, I included my occupation and described the hardship.

    However, it is likely that they do things very quickly and just deny postponement as a matter of policy.

    Or, maybe no one actually reads it, and computers are programmed to just deny anything without key words they are looking for.

    I doubt a computer will be reading my letter, however, and this is where I am counting on human common sense to let me wait at least until winter break.
     
  40. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    57

    Aug 8, 2011

    Personally, I would keep any correspondence as short as possible. Concise usually yields better results. (yeah, I know I'm not the brevity queen myself, but it is still good advice. :lol:)
     
  41. oldstudent

    oldstudent Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2011

    You might have a point, but the summons don't leave much room for explanations, so brevity is necessary. But brevity did not work the first time.
    I am hoping correct semantics will work in my favor.

    Once I get it typed, I am guessing it will be between 1 and 1/2 and two pages.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. vickilyn,
  2. CaliforniaRPCV
Total: 539 (members: 3, guests: 517, robots: 19)
test