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Discussion in 'General Education Archives' started by Shane Steinmetz, Sep 23, 2006.

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  1. mommaruthie

    mommaruthie Aficionado

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    Sep 27, 2006

    I thought Florida requires substitutes to have at least an AA degree.
     
  2. MissFrizzle

    MissFrizzle Virtuoso

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Well then, Shane, as you said, Chin up. Chalk this up to experience and move on. Just a side note, the union steward did have a "right" to step in". Principals typically do not favor unions, but they are there to protect the teachers. If your voice was loud and the union rep heard you then he or she did the right thing by coming to the aid of the teacher

    Don't think that you've won anything though. You were graciously given an opportunity to explain yourself. You could have just as easily been tossed out the door and asked not to return. You ended up very lucky.

    You do express yourself well and for that you should be commended. However, to those of us reading and responding it seems that you are here simply to argue. So, good luck to you in the future.
     
  3. daysy_may

    daysy_may Groupie

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    Sep 27, 2006

    I agree as well.
     
  4. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Shane I will not even comment on you last comment to me, enough already. I supported you at first didn't I?
     
  5. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Not so very nice to poster

    I agree that some of the comments made to Shane have been rude. There is huge difference between helping someone and making derogatory remarks. I don't believe she was here to argue at all. I believe she was spilling her guts with a serious problem and came here for support ... and got blasted.
     
  6. Shane Steinmetz

    Shane Steinmetz Rookie

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    Sep 27, 2006

    No.

    Oddly enough, teachers' assistants in my county require an AA degree or successful completion of a challenging assessment... but substitutes only require a high school diploma.

    Like I said -- I acknowledged what I did wrong, but don't think that I'm going to agree with you or anyone else on every single point. It just seems like I'm here to argue to you because I happen to disagree a lot. With the inflammatory comments from earlier, it's even more understandable for me to present an argument.

    I think what the man meant was that she didn't have the power to trespass a person or order an employee to leave, especially without due process.

    Had I introduced myself and given myself some time on the discussion board before beginning with a post about a heated situation, you would probably feel less inclined to believe that I'm here just to argue. However, I don't think that people's level of civility and fairness should be affected by whether they know someone personally. Presenting myself as a total stranger gave me an opportunity to see how you all handle an argument from someone you know little about -- except age and educational qualifications.

    One of the main reasons why I became a substitute was to sample what it would be like to run a classroom. This has given me a good look into how teachers behave and how they handle problems.

    I can see both here and in real life that a great deal of fraternization takes place among groups of teachers. They seem to have a tendency to squeeze out whoever they don't like. If I can't have an equal voice and chance to discuss and work out problems together without being attacked for not blindly agreeing, then education as a career isn't for me.

    That man gave me hope, though, that there are indeed still people left that can view a problem in a neutral light and show empathy and care for all sides, instead of automatically siding with the teachers and principals because they're the greater numbers and more highly qualified. That, along with the fact that I feel that I can improve off of my own past teachers, has inspired me to continue instead of simply giving up.

    If it's "enough already," why are you asking me a question that will continue the discussion? There's no obligation for you to remain in the topic. I'm not having a one-on-one conversation with you.

    Whether you support me or not doesn't matter. I don't expect everyone to agree with me or my positions. What I do expect is a fair chance to have a discussion and to have the opportunity to think differently without having someone throw me in the subjective or haggle me with empty shock comments. When Ms_Em made her last post -- which was mostly full of personal attacks and inflammatory comments -- you built right off of it by trying to make it seem that I was upset because of a lack of disagreement, when that wasn't the case.

    You're all teachers or staff that affect teaching in some way, aren't you? I would think that you're the last kind of people that would give in to emotion and fail to be objective in a discussion and side with each other because you don't happen to like the single person that opposes you in some way.
     
  7. Shane Steinmetz

    Shane Steinmetz Rookie

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Thank you, GrammyTeacher, for your empathy. Despite my age and obvious lack of educational qualifications, you've given me a fair chance.

    I know that "support" doesn't mean "absolute agreement." But, at the same time, I know it doesn't encompass telling someone to grow up or that they're being immature.

    You'd better be careful with disagreeing with the majority. It can get you into a lot of trouble.

    But, then there's me, who just pursues the truth and what I feel is right. I will stay true to my personal integrity and use these troubles to strengthen it.
     
  8. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Shane, I am always in trouble. By the way, I have worked with a couple of 18 year olds in the past ... they are both two of my very best friends. They are fun, lively, smart, witty, ambitious, artistic, empathetic, kind...well, that's enough. By the way, I'm 54...and remember being 18...lots of spark and as I reflect, quite mature. You sound like you have a lot on the ball. You have just experienced the unpleasant side of dealing with people...and it will make you a better teacher in the future. I'm sure you have learned a lot. Keep your head on straight and choose your battles wisely!
     
  9. teresaglass

    teresaglass Groupie

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Shane I think you should start going to college and when you get your credential you will probably be a good teacher! Terry G.
     
  10. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    Sep 27, 2006

    Shane, we work hard to keep things on a civil level here. I think that most of the posts made here were not directed as an attack on you, rather, they were posted as a comment on what happened. While most people stated that they agreed that you had done wrong, I don't think anyone said they didn't like you. There were a couple of heated comments on both sides. One of the things that is important in education is being flexible and sometimes having to let things roll off your back. You are more than welcome here at the site, and I hope you make use of it. Another important skill in education, and one that is sometimes harder to swallow, is not taking things personally. Someone can comment on not liking something you did or say and they aren't saying they don't like you as a person. It's a tough lesson to learn, and one that we sometimes have to learn over and over. I hope you learn from this experience, and go on to better situations. My suggestion is still to document everything. Keep a sub journal with you and log everything that happens during the day.

     
  11. Suburban Gal

    Suburban Gal (formerly Elizabeth) Banned

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    Sep 28, 2006


    I'm sorry if I offended or upset anyone with my comment that the only places where I've seen a high school diploma and one to be at least 18 years of age to sub are many of the Southern States and that it's not like those places have really high requirements for Aides and Teachers either. It wasn't intentional.

    I was basing that off of some googled and heresay information I got over the past few years. So again, my apologies. Perhaps ceratain information was outdated or entirely wrong altogether.
     
  12. Suburban Gal

    Suburban Gal (formerly Elizabeth) Banned

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    Sep 28, 2006

    No. I wasn't saying that disciplinary action taken against a person automatically means that the person is guilty of everything he or she was accused of. I was saying that if you "like that" and were that confrontational once over such a thing then it's highly possible you will be again and again and to most that's a COMPLETE turn off for wanting to continue to employ such a person. That's not how MOST empolyers wish things to be done and handled.

    In any case, I agree wldywall completely. Let's just let this entire debate end here. Just let it go, we aren't going to agree with you, because many of us see fault in what you did. Being overly defensive is not going to solve your problem. And I suggest that you learn not to be that way in teh future when it comes to such things as this.

    Take some good, friendly advice from an older person who's been subbing a lot longer than you have and has ZERO complaints against her:

    Never re-arrange their desks. Never use supplies or rummage through their desks for supplies. Never confront teachers. Never tell a teacher their desk is messy. To you it may be messy, but to the teacher it may be perfectly organized and for them to have a Substitute tell them something like that is like having the temporary employee of a company tell a person they're filling in for that their desk is in dire need of cleaning and re-organization. You, like the temprary employee, are in and out rather quickly and aren't really in any spot to tell the teacher that and that you re-arranged things to your satisfaction and benefit in order to get your job done. In the future, move to a table or use the overhead and cart it's on to work off of.

    Anyhow, it sounds like everything has worked out for you and you'll still be working for that district, just not for that particular school. So, I wish you a lot of luck in the future! :cool:

    And now, I graciously bow out of this thread altogether.
     
  13. 2ndTimeArnd

    2ndTimeArnd Companion

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    Sep 28, 2006

    Goodness ... I think Random and some of his respondents have way too much time on their hands. It must have taken hours to compose that initial letter, and then respond to everyone. I think what Random still has to learn at his young age is reflected in this statement of his: "I am not going to humble myself before everyone around me or apologize for mistakes I did not make just to satisfy an upper authority." I'm in my second career (teaching) and nearly old enough to be your grandparent, and I just have to say: There are going to be many times in your life when you have to gut it up, "satisfy an upper authority" and move on. This is one of them. Good luck.
     
  14. AtoZAdmin

    AtoZAdmin Forum Administrator

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    Sep 28, 2006

    It sounds like this issue has been fully covered, so maybe it's time to close the thread.

    As always, you are welcome to open new threads for constructive discussion... This one has just reached the closing point. ;)
     
  15. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Sep 29, 2006

    Shane, I think that age and experience absolutely make one a more valuable teacher, yes.
     
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