Subs getting planning periods?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by 2ndTimeAround, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Nov 18, 2014

    This morning as I was checking my mailbox at school I overheard two subs complaining about not getting their planning periods that often any more. They were saying that when the teacher they sub for gets a planning period to rest, they should too. But our school has been using subs to cover other teachers' classes as needed during those planning period times.

    Apparently yesterday one regular teacher's kid got sick and the teacher had to leave suddenly. While looking for a replacement, one teacher suggested that a sub who would have planning the next period, take the class. The sub was greatly offended. She and the other sub this morning were talking about how rude it was of the teacher to suggest the sub to cover and that instead another teacher should cover during HER planning.

    I was surprised. Surprised at the attitude, surprised at why a sub would think she'd need a planning period and surprised that they would openly complain about a staff member in the staff lounge.

    It seems like a no-brainer to me. Kids need watching, better to have a SUB be the substitute than pull an actual teacher away from his/her planning.

    How is this done in your schools?
     
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  3. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    Here even teachers are often pulled to cover classes on planning periods.

    Honestly, I have very few free planning periods. I have meetings and pull kids during that time.
     
  4. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    Same here. So it would make sense that the subs cover instead of taking yet another planning period away from a teacher.
     
  5. BumbleB

    BumbleB Habitué

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    x2 to all of this.
     
  6. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Our subs are supposed to have the same schedule as the teacher they are replacing--including supervision duties and prep periods. Many of our regular subs will ask if they can be used to help out in some way during the planning time in the schedule. It certainly is appreciated, but we can't count on it happening.
     
  7. BioAngel

    BioAngel Science Teacher - Grades 3-6

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    Our subs come in and will usually work straight through for most of the day or with no breaks besides lunch. As a faculty member I have to do have 2 on-call subbing periods which means I sign up to cover 2 periods of my choice and if someone needs to leave early or only 1 period or so needs to be covered that day, I'll do it if it's my particular period. We're pretty strict with our subs- you're here to cover classes, not to take breaks.

    I will say that any duties we have- not including homeroom duties though- must be covered by another faculty member (like recess or carline/bus duty).
     
  8. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    When I'm subbing I really like having the teacher's plan time to breathe, relax, and refresh on the plans for the rest of the day. While I wouldn't complain if I got pulled to cover for another class (which has happened before when subbing secondary classes), it does make the remainder of the day slightly more stressful since it's less time to really go over plans. Other times (like today) the teacher leaves a quick task for me to do during plan time, and being pulled to cover another class would mean not being able to do what the teacher has asked me to do.

    That being said... I think it's a big unprofessional for the subs to be openly complaining about it while at work. The district I sub in told us very clearly that they are super short on subs and may need to pull us into other classes during plan times. Maybe your district didn't do that, but it's silly for a sub to think they won't be put to work while they have free time in the building.
     
  9. Go Blue!

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    We rarely get Subs here, but when we do, our kids are rowdy and give them hell - even the regular/long-term Subs. Personally, I think it is VERY rude to not give a Sub a break in the day - the same break the regular teacher would/should have. I need a break during the day; I'm sure that Subs do also.

    It is not the Sub's fault if other teachers' planning periods get eaten up with meetings and other stuff. If teachers have a problem with their planning period being taken from them for other things; well, that is between the teacher, Admin and the Union - it is not the Sub's fault.

    I am really surprised when I read threads about Subs and how they are treated in other schools.
     
  10. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Here, subs don't get paid for the planning period. If they are pulled to cover a class on 'their' planning period, they are compensated with extra pay.
     
  11. 2ndTimeAround

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    So those that agree with our subs, please tell me what need a sub would have for a 90 minute "break" during the day? In addition to a one hour lunch period?
     
  12. jen12

    jen12 Devotee

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    As someone who has subbed, I can really see this from both sides. Too often subs are treated like whores and used up and thrown out for a hundred bucks a day. I had days where I subbed and had to cover two recess duties when the general schedule only requires teachers to take one or the other.

    Subbing is difficult, and I can see why they would want the break just to regroup and get themselves together, especially given the pay scale they're getting. It was rare that I took middle or high school sub jobs and planning periods are virtually unknown in elementary schools, so I personally would see it as a gift if I ever did have one. It is kind of unfair to take away their breaks when they accept the job with a certain expectation of a schedule and then have it pulled out from under them.

    On the other hand, I always went in with the attitude of "whatever you need done." I figured I was there, so I might as well work. I rarely got into discussions with other subs because I didn't want to hear the complaining. Come to think of it, even now I rarely go in the lounge because I don't want to hear the complaining from regular staff either.

    What I hate most of all is the "us and them" attitude that I hear from other staff about subs. There is no sense that we're all in the same profession. Just listen to all the complaints about the demands from everyone, sub or contracted. Personally I think that whichever side of the divide you're on, you can make yourself look bad pretty easily by bitching about work and about the people around you.
     
  13. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

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    Like someone else mentioned, I almost always use what free time I have to go over plans for the rest of the day and review material that will be coming up so I understand it and how it's been taught so far. It makes for a much more comfortable time in the classroom and smoother management as well.

    I've never subbed anywhere where I've gotten a 90 minute break plus an hour lunch period, however, not even close. At most I've had 30 minutes for lunch and a 30 minute planning period. If I have extra time I'll generally wander down to the office and see if they have anything to do, and if I had that much time, I'd probably do it more often.

    (But I also agree that whether I was thrilled by the extra work or not, I would definitely not publicly complain in the building about it. I'd just do it.)
     
  14. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I have a 44 minute plan period and a 40 minute lunch. I really hope my subs offer to help! My sub plans are usually: tell kids to read silently for 30 minutes and then do journal. Or sometimes: distribute quiz. Collect at end of period. I don't think it takes them 44 minutes to get all that ;)
     
  15. daisycakes

    daisycakes Companion

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    We have a sub problem at our school and I wish the school would fill up their subs' preps more often. Sometimes I am pulled to cover other teacher's classes and that's not okay. Subs are there to work for the day. They get a lunch break. They should not complain about working during the prep. They have nothing to prep!
     
  16. Ms.Blank

    Ms.Blank Companion

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    I do a lot more prepping than people realize. It is hard to be a sub sometimes. Just today I got to work a half hour early like I was supposed to. I had morning duty, so I only got 15 minutes to look over my plans. I could only organize up until the lunchtime stuff. Once recess hit, I had duty again. Then during half of my lunch (which is only 45 minutes, not an hour as was suggested previously...and when I DO go to middle schools and get a prep period, it's 44 minutes, not 90) I ate...the other half was spent looking over my plans and prepping for the rest of the day. I had photocopies to make and just things to prepare in general (overhead slides, writing out reward slips the teacher want me to hand out, that sort of thing). I also had bus duty after school. I then stayed a half hour AFTER the time I was paid for...because the teacher wanted me to grade tests and photocopy some more.

    I realize my day today wasn't typical. I also realize that we are talking about prep periods (middle and high school) and not elementary school (no preps). However, it bothers me when people say that subs don't need to prep. I find that it is very common for teachers to leave me things to prep (and how I feel about that goes in that other thread...). Maybe it's a regional thing, but I find myself always spending my break times going over plans, organizing my materials for the day, and doing general prep work. So...yeah.

    I will, however, admit that I am a darn good sub. I've made a name for myself in the two short months I've been subbing. I've heard of awful subs in our district who just ignore plans and pop on a movie or let the kids have free periods. That isn't me. I follow plans to a T, ALWAYS. So maybe that's why I end up having so much work to do. :dunno:

    But in reference to the original post...subs talking crap in the lounge? TACKYYYY! And I am a team player all the way...if something needs to get done, I get it done. Someone needs me to cover a period? Fine. I need to cover someone's duty? I'm doing it. So...I see both sides to the situation.
     
  17. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Subs don't have prep work because they don't plan lessons but they have plenty to do during their prep period. I remember part of my lunch, my entire prep, half an hour before and after school was often filled with reading plans, getting familiar with what I would be teaching, organizing things, cleaning up my desk, student work, and leaving notes about each class.
    It was plenty.
     
  18. Ms.Blank

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    I agree. In fact, I think that's why some teachers leave prep work like filing, copying, etc...because they think the subs are just sitting on their phones, wasting paid time. For me, at least, that is never the case!

    I just also feel that if you (the teacher) took the time to write me lesson plans, then I (your sub) am going to take the time to go over them and make sure I organize myself so I can everything finished.
     
  19. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

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    I think I could follow that. :)

    I also mostly sub in elementary school so maybe that's part of the difference. I didn't realize we were mostly talking about secondary. I imagine the schedules/expectations are different.
     
  20. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    When I subbed I got all planning periods. If they had me cover a class during a free period then I got paid extra. I don't think it's fair for subs to not get compensated for extra periods. Most don't make enough per day as it is.
     
  21. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    I subbed for seven years before teaching full time. I'm aware of what it takes to be a sub. It does not require a 2.5 hour break each day to "prepare" for the day. Even when I subbed in elementary school I was able to understand the sub plans in 10 minutes before the kids arrived in the morning.

    It is not an "us versus them" thing with me. As a former sub I've been supportive of subs that really do their job. But there is no need for a planning period if you don't plan. Our subs get paid for a day's work. Not covering a set number of periods. They are paid for a set time frame. They don't need, deserve, whatever, a 90 minute planning period so they can have a break.
     
  22. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I would definitely think it's different in elementary. My subs have also mostly subbed for me before so they know the deal. Most know our kids by name too, so there's an ease to subbing in our district in some ways because of that.
     
  23. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    My prep period is not a "rest period" or a "break". I have no problem with my sub being asked to cover another class during my prep period. Just as I would be working through my prep period, it is reasonable to expect that my sub should work through that period too--and since the sub doesn't do lesson plans or grading or any of the other stuff that I do, it is reasonable to put that sub to work in another classroom.

    I do not believe that it takes an entire prep period to read plans. It certainly doesn't take that long to read my plans.

    In any case, for me this is a non-issue because I have sold my prep. Anyone who subs for me does not get a planning period. The guy who I usually request to sub for me is very easy-going when it comes to this. If it bothers him that he doesn't get a prep period when working for me, he has never said anything, and he continues to accept my jobs. This is one of several reasons that he is my go-to when it comes to requesting subs. I wouldn't waste my time with someone who complained about having to work too hard. Especially at the high school level, a lot of subbing is more like babysitting.
     
  24. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I don't think that subs need a planning period. Planning times are not meant to be breaks from work, they are meant to be times for planning. Subs have nothing to plan, so why would they need this time? They would still get a lunch break, which is meant to be an actual break from work. I don't think working an 8 hour day with a lunch break is unreasonable. I don't understand the need to prep materials either- I always have all my materials out and ready for the sub. I put a lot of effort into making sure everything is copied, clearly labeled, and even placed in the correct order of things they will need as the day goes on so they don't have to look for anything. They also start at contract time, which is 30 minutes before students arrive so that should be plenty of time to look over the plans. It would never happen in my school anyway, but I would be furious if my planning was taken away so that a sub could have an extra break. I always leave instructions for my sub to go give extra help to my K students during my planning period if she is able to. If she got pulled for something else during that time, I wouldn't be upset at all. I imagine it's the same for teachers who leave other tasks like grading for the sub to do during their plan- I don't think saying that you might have a task to do for the teacher is a good reason for "needing" the planning period.
     
  25. Ms.Blank

    Ms.Blank Companion

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    Perhaps this is where my problem lies...I seem to NEVER have clear, organized, ready-to-go lessons ready for me. Sigh.
     
  26. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    I've subbed for a year and a half, and am in my 8th year as a regular teacher.
    There is a BIG difference between subbing elementary and secondary in terms of preparing yourself. Secondary is a breeze. Elementary is not always. I was one that could be counted on to follow lesson plans and try to emulate the classroom teacher. No matter how well written plans are, and how well labeled materials are, it takes time to prepare. Especially lower elementary- you often have kids getting pulled out at random times, they don't do well with a break in routine, etc... In previous threads it has been mentioned, but I will go ahead and mention it again. I would thoroughly study plans until the next moment of non-teaching time. For example, if they have a morning special, I'd study plans until the special. During the special, I'd study plans until lunch. During lunch, I'd study plans until dismissal. I also wrote extremely detailed notes for the teacher. My notes were typically multiple pages and included things such as: "Billy really caught on to regrouping while subtracting. Sally, Mike, and Betty really struggled with it. I worked with them in a small group.", etc...
    For me, this is a moot point. Subs are not paid for prep periods. If you cover a different class, they compensate you.
     
  27. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    For every teacher who leaves all copies made, everything set out, all tech ready to work, and perfect lesson plans that anyone could follow, there are ten times that many who left generic plans and called in something that was scribbled by another teacher, no guidance where to find what is needed, no copies made, ready to go, and no guarantee that the DVD player will work or information about where to find the DVD in question. I subbed for 10 years, and was always ready to help out, but I never saw a lunch more than 40 minutes - ever! I almost always had to run copies, which meant finding someone to help you log onto the copy machine, wait in line with the teachers who figured they should go first because they are "real" teachers, and always try to figure out the DVD player, which invariably turns out to be quirky and unpredictable, as well as different from the one in the next room. The prep includes trying to find someone to help you with the things that aren't going smoothly, someone who has a minute and the expertise to turn the sick teacher's scribbles into something that actually functions.

    Most schools in NJ DON"T pay you extra for taking an additional class unless it is a HS that has block periods. In elementary, the kids have to be delivered to the lunch room, picked up from the lunch room, there are almost always duties that the teacher gets paid for, but the sub does not, and if the prep falls while the students are out to specials, we go back to the teacher marching the students to and from the other classes. The morning and dismissal routines are tedious and time consuming. I think that there are lots of sides to this issue, but the comment about an hour lunch and a 90 minute prep period sure doesn't ring true to me. Subs here are supposed to have the schedule of the teacher they are in for, which includes the preps as well as the duties, and invariably it includes a fair amount of time in the copy room. My hat is off to the super organized, everything works, everything is copied, and you have no duties - I would be happy to work the "free time." My experience is that the reality is far different, with the teacher expecting to not only teach, but get everything ready, with little concern about how busy it may be at the copy machine, especially if you need the copies for first period.

    I remember my subbing days so well that I have gotten up at 5 in the morning when really sick to go to the school to pull things together, get copies made, and double check the organization. On some of those days, the classes were full of characters that made for a long period. I would not begrudge them the prep - it may be a long time before they get the chance to go to the bathroom again.
     
  28. Go Blue!

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    Exactly. As a HS teacher, I cover classes all the time during my plan and there is no compensation at all. I don't think this is fair to me and thus, I don't think a Sub should also have to cover extra periods without compensation. It just seems unfair/harsh.
     
  29. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    A teacher uses a prep to plan, make parent phone calls, catch up on paperwork and a myriad of other administrative and teaching related tasks. I write my planning periods into sub plans and don't really care what the sub does for those 40 minutes as long as my plans are followed for the time my kids are in the room, that the day goes smoothly and my classroom is left neat and orderly.:D
    Subs who complain about occasional loss of preps and other conditions loudly enough to be heard should know that they might not be invited back...:(
     
  30. gr3teacher

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    Subs in my district are hourly employees, and they get paid for my planning period. I don't think it is in any way unreasonable to expect them to work during that planning period.
     
  31. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    When I subbed we were paid by classes taught. I think 99% of the teachers taught 5 classes so you got paid for each CLASS you subbed for which worked out to $100 per day ($20 per class). One time a teacher I subbed for was head of the dept. so she only had 4 classes. They asked me if I wanted to get paid $80 or take an extra class for the full $100. I said i'll take the class. I ended up taking 2 classes extra that day and got $120 for the day. I think it all depends on how the district/school uses subs. This was obviously at a high school and i'm assuming it might be different at an elementary school.
     
  32. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

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    Some of these differences are interesting. I don't know of any districts around here that pay by the class even at the secondary level. They all pay a flat fee and the most I make at any district is $90/day. I wouldnt get any extra compensation for anything beyond what the teacher I'm in for does.
     
  33. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    All K-8 teachers in my district get their prep time before and after school. Middle schools teachers don't get a period off during the day for prep.

    As a teacher, my plans were methodically written so that pretty much any adult (educated or not) could follow them. I never left anything for them to grade nor did I leave anything difficult for them to figure out (lesson-wise, I mean).

    It should only take 5 minutes for them to write a quick note explaining how their day went and another 5 minutes to leave the classroom the way they found it (orderly and neat).

    I must admit, however, that I was one of those teachers who left everything laid out in an organized and fool-proof way. My colleagues would even laugh when they would see how easy-to-follow I made things.
     
  34. Go Blue!

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    Exactly. I have also never heard of subs being paid per hour/period. Here, they make $75 to $100 a day.
     
  35. TeacherWhoRuns

    TeacherWhoRuns Companion

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    Subs are teachers, you know that, right?
    The duties aren't always the same, but they deserve the title, as they are actually, you know, teaching. People working as substitute teachers went through the same education and often have more experience than people employed in full contract positions - at least in my state.

    Who legitimately gets 90 minute preps? Any around here are a class period long, which is about 43 minutes. Guest teachers work the schedule of the teacher they're covering for, which may include bus duty or hall duty or multiple subjects if the teacher teaches Math/P.E. or some such combination.

    I don't think anyone minds pitching in when help is needed, but I would imagine that if a school continually pulls the rug out from under someone and makes them work during breaks they might not want to come back anyway.
     
  36. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I had a 90 minute prep every other day when I taught blocks.
     
  37. a2z

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    Do you mean certified teachers? In my district you only need a certain number of college credits, fewer than an associates degree and not even in education to be able to sub. They are substitute teachers for the class, but they may not be credentialed teachers.

    The range in ability is drastic.
     
  38. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    This is probably a regional thing, but all the districts near me require subs to be fully certified teachers and it didn't use to be that way as far as I know. They won't even hire subs with emergency licenses (the 60 credit hour ones) except in extreme circumstances. Quite honestly I would be offended if a teacher at a school I was subbing in suggested I was less than a teacher just because I'm subbing and don't have my own class. Regardless of certification, subs are (hopefully -- I'm aware there are subs who just pop in a movie) still teaching the class for the day. They may not do it well, and they may not do it how the classroom teacher would, but subs are still teachers.
     
  39. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This is true in my district as well.
     
  40. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    In the strictest sense of the word, yes.
     
  41. 2ndTimeAround

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    Well, here, the district of the OP in this thread, subs just have to have a high school diploma and get a three day training period. No, they are NOT teachers.

    And here, in the very same district, we are on block schedules. Which means we teach 3 90 minute classes and have on 90 minute planning period. We also have a 30 minute lunch followed/preceded by tutoring. Subs cannot tutor so they get the full 60 minutes for lunch.
     
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